2016-17 Kings Roster Part 2

[Johnny Utah]

That was my concern too. Quick's deal never bothered me, but what got me was the Kings should have a kid in the wings who in a few years should make Quick expendable.

Kings could maybe deal a 33-34 year old Quick with a few years left on his deal, so essentially we need someone to take over the reigns in 2-3 years. There is no one in that spot. Jones is gone. Berube gone. Campbell is already 25.

Jones is 27, so he would not have waited until he was 30 to be the number 1 goalie.

 

[driller1]

That was my concern too. Quick's deal never bothered me, but what got me was the Kings should have a kid in the wings who in a few years should make Quick expendable.

Kings could maybe deal a 33-34 year old Quick with a few years left on his deal, so essentially we need someone to take over the reigns in 2-3 years. There is no one in that spot. Jones is gone. Berube gone. Campbell is already 25.

Jones is 27, so he would not have waited until he was 30 to be the number 1 goalie.

We had one. Unfortunately he didn't get the memo he wasn't supposed to beat his girlfriend up, so we deported his ass back to Eastern Europe.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Jonathan Quick, age 31, 5.8 million/year until 2023. 13th highest cap hit amongst goaltenders.

Lundqvist, age 34, 8.5 million/year to 2021.

Even if Quick falls apart, with respect to good-to-great goaltenders, his contract is more do-able.

You'll have to define fall apart before I know what you mean by do-able.

Agreed. Like any long-term deal though, this was known the moment it was signed.

The nightmare scenario, however, would be if he really falls apart and we are looking at Martin Jones killing it. Then you got to think about what the team would look like if DL traded Quick for a good haul as opposed to making the Lucic deal or maybe doing both.

Much like how player's of Brown's ilk decline after 30, time is not usually favorable to athletic goalies either.

What haul do you think a goalie signed for 8 more years at the time would've returned? A cap hit of $5.8m, but a salary of $7m. How many teams could take that on, without the Kings taking either an expensive goalie, or some other money back in the deal?

And again, Lombardi didn't have the upper hand at the time. Other teams could just wait until July 1st, and give Jones an offer sheet that he couldn't match. He didn't have the luxury of sitting back and pondering a Quick trade. If he waits until July 1st to see what offer sheet Jones gets, and wants to keep him at whatever the number would've been, he doesn't have leverage for Quick when the offer sheet needs to be matched in a week.

There was no haul for Jones to be had, and no haul for Quick to be had. With all the other deals in Lombardi's time, there's a what if scenario. Unless you're trading Jones in the summer of 2014, or Quick in the summer of 2013, maybe even when he was red hot in the summer of 2012, there's really no what if's. It was a pretty cut and dry situation in June 2015.

 

[YP44]

If he falls apart, it's a bad contract. Another anchor on the roster. I don't see how that's "do-able." Just because other contracts are bad or worse, doesn't change that.

define fall apart. Do you mean regress to an average goalie or below average goalie. Right now he is making average starting money.

 

[YP44]

We had one. Unfortunately he didn't get the memo he wasn't supposed to beat his girlfriend up, so we deported his ass back to Eastern Europe.

was going to post the same think. I doubt LA exposes Berube without Bartosak at the time.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Anybody that thinks Quick will be back this season is kidding themselves. Lombardi said not to expect him back before March. Assuming he is ready to hit the ice in March, he will need a few weeks of practice and conditioning time to even be able to play an NHL game. In addition, how effective will he even be having not played for an entire year? By March, most teams are gunning full speed ahead. Can we risk losing points in games to just get Quick ready?

There is also the possibility that there will be set backs when he gets on the ice, and thus, further delaying the problem.

I hope Quick heals and is okay for next season, but if not, and this is a career ending injury, we can put him on LTIR, saving $5MM in cap space. Lombardi, however, will have his job cut out for him trying to find another Jones to fill that spot.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If he falls apart, it's a bad contract. Another anchor on the roster. I don't see how that's "do-able." Just because other contracts are bad or worse, doesn't change that.

I don't disagree, I just see the mentality around here and basically any player over 30 is on a 'bad contract.' Just giving some context. Most of the goaltenders ahead of Quick on that list are already underperforming, so if we're going to pre-emptively call Quick a bad contract, well, half the league has beat us there.

But again, as BigKing says, we all figure Quick's athleticism is going to get him in trouble toward the end of that deal.

 

[YP44]

Anybody that thinks Quick will be back this season is kidding themselves. Lombardi said not to expect him back before March. Assuming he is ready to hit the ice in March, he will need a few weeks of practice and conditioning time to even be able to play an NHL game. In addition, how effective will he even be having not played for an entire year? By March, most teams are gunning full speed ahead. Can we risk losing points in games to just get Quick ready?

There is also the possibility that there will be set backs when he gets on the ice, and thus, further delaying the problem.

I hope Quick heals and is okay for next season, but if not, and this is a career ending injury, we can put him on LTIR, saving $5MM in cap space. Lombardi, however, will have his job cut out for him trying to find another Jones to fill that spot.

You're assuming when Lombardi says back in March that is back on ice, but maybe back means that is when he should be ready to go. I am thinking he will star skating end of Feb, and then be ready for games mid March. However how many games is the biggest thing for me.

I am worried he comes back and re-injures right away, there is also risk of set backs as you have said.

You say can we risk points by putting him in, I say can we risk the points we may not get by leaving him on the bench?

 

[BigKing]

You'll have to define fall apart before I know what you mean by do-able.



What haul do you think a goalie signed for 8 more years at the time would've returned? A cap hit of $5.8m, but a salary of $7m. How many teams could take that on, without the Kings taking either an expensive goalie, or some other money back in the deal?

And again, Lombardi didn't have the upper hand at the time. Other teams could just wait until July 1st, and give Jones an offer sheet that he couldn't match. He didn't have the luxury of sitting back and pondering a Quick trade. If he waits until July 1st to see what offer sheet Jones gets, and wants to keep him at whatever the number would've been, he doesn't have leverage for Quick when the offer sheet needs to be matched in a week.

There was no haul for Jones to be had, and no haul for Quick to be had. With all the other deals in Lombardi's time, there's a what if scenario. Unless you're trading Jones in the summer of 2014, or Quick in the summer of 2013, maybe even when he was red hot in the summer of 2012, there's really no what if's. It was a pretty cut and dry situation in June 2015.

Don't always assume logic wins out the day.

They could have moved Quick and received a nice haul, even with that contract. You are also assuming teams would rather have Jones than Quick at that point in time.

I'm not criticizing DL or anything as it is just a hypothetical.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Also, there are no 'hauls' for any goalie to be had, it's a ******, oversaturated market. What's the most a goalie has gone for lately, a 1st and 2nd for Varlamov? Thats as close to a haul as I've seen. Beyond that, it's middle picks and middle six forwards. Or I guess Cory Schneider for the high pick that became Bo Horvat. But one singular pick for a goalie everyone is drooling over isn't much. How mad would people have been at the time if we traded Quick for a 1st and a 2nd, god even NOW that sounds laughable.

 

[BigKing]

Also, there are no 'hauls' for any goalie to be had, it's a ******, oversaturated market. What's the most a goalie has gone for lately, a 1st and 2nd for Varlamov? Thats as close to a haul as I've seen. Beyond that, it's middle picks and middle six forwards. Or I guess Cory Schneider for the high pick that became Bo Horvat. But one singular pick for a goalie everyone is drooling over isn't much. How mad would people have been at the time if we traded Quick for a 1st and a 2nd, god even NOW that sounds laughable.

Oh, I totally get it. Everyone would have freaked out.

"Haul" is probably not the right word; however, Quick has proven way more than either of those guys when they were traded. Now, he is older and has the contract, but let's not pretend like there wouldn't have been a market for him at the end of the 2015 season.

Regardless, the point is only hypothetical in the sense that it will suck if Quick is broken down in two years while Jones is cruising. It would be just like bemoaning the Brown and Gaborik contracts though since there didn't seem to be too much of a problem at the time of the signings, just like there weren't many--if any--that were saying Quick should be moved and Jones retained.

 

[tsanuri]

Oh, I totally get it. Everyone would have freaked out.

"Haul" is probably not the right word; however, Quick has proven way more than either of those guys when they were traded. Now, he is older and has the contract, but let's not pretend like there wouldn't have been a market for him at the end of the 2015 season.

Regardless, the point is only hypothetical in the sense that it will suck if Quick is broken down in two years while Jones is cruising. It would be just like bemoaning the Brown and Gaborik contracts though since there didn't seem to be too much of a problem at the time of the signings, just like there weren't many--if any--that were saying Quick should be moved and Jones retained.

You do good if you can even get fair value for a goalie much less a good deal.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/trading-an-nhl-goalie-dont-expect-to-hit-a-home-run

 

[BigKing]

You do good if you can even get fair value for a goalie much less a good deal.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/trading-an-nhl-goalie-dont-expect-to-hit-a-home-run

I know goalies don't demand as much, but that list is pathetic in comparison to Quick's stature.

None of those guys listed had done anything when they were traded. Then tossing in the Roy deal as an example is extremely flawed due to the circumstances surrounding it, although Thibault was two years removed from being the #10th overall selection in the draft.

But, again, I'm not saying he should of done it. Just originally said that the nightmare would be Quick breaking down, Jones crushing it on top of the first rounder lost in the Lucic deal. If the nightmare happens, this board will feature threads debating moving Quick after '15 and, yes, it will all be hindsight.

 

[lordjedediah]

I know goalies don't demand as much, but that list is pathetic in comparison to Quick's stature.

None of those guys listed had done anything when they were traded. Then tossing in the Roy deal as an example is extremely flawed due to the circumstances surrounding it, although Thibault was two years removed from being the #10th overall selection in the draft.

But, again, I'm not saying he should of done it. Just originally said that the nightmare would be Quick breaking down, Jones crushing it on top of the first rounder lost in the Lucic deal. If the nightmare happens, this board will feature threads debating moving Quick after '15 and, yes, it will all be hindsight.

"Crushing it"

 

[KingsFan7824]

Don't always assume logic wins out the day.

I assume that with goalies until a given trade shows otherwise. It's one of the weirder positions in all of sports to figure out equal value, and I think that's because if a goalie isn't playing, he's sitting.

 

[kingsholygrail]

That was my concern too. Quick's deal never bothered me, but what got me was the Kings should have a kid in the wings who in a few years should make Quick expendable.

Kings could maybe deal a 33-34 year old Quick with a few years left on his deal, so essentially we need someone to take over the reigns in 2-3 years. There is no one in that spot. Jones is gone. Berube gone. Campbell is already 25.

Jones is 27, so he would not have waited until he was 30 to be the number 1 goalie.

The problem is the Kings didn't have slow cooking back up netminders behind Quick. They had legit #1 caliber guys and yes Bernier, at the time, was a #1 caliber guy.

 

[theMajor]

watching some highlights from the 2012 run and my god what a force Dustin Brown was. sometimes I forget just how good of a player he could be. dude was a shooting, hitting, crease-camping, greasy goal scoring beast

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

watching some highlights from the 2012 run and my god what a force Dustin Brown was. sometimes I forget just how good of a player he could be. dude was a shooting, hitting, crease-camping, greasy goal scoring beast

I wonder exactly what happened to him after that run. He was still productive in the shortened season, but then it all went downhill.

My only guess is that the years of physical play took a toll on him and he hit the proverbial wall. Happened to guys like Peca, Clark, and we saw it happen with Richards as well, who also enjoyed his last productive season in 2012-13.

 

[Butch 19]

The problem is the Kings didn't have slow cooking back up netminders behind Quick. They had legit #1 caliber guys and yes Bernier, at the time, was a #1 caliber guy.

And a wasted first round pick. Never pick a goalie in the first round.

Bernie was as good a looking goalie as Labarbara. He had all the chances to match Quick save for save here in L.A., but he just wasn't good enough.

He's winding up Labarbara though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wonder exactly what happened to him after that run. He was still productive in the shortened season, but then it all went downhill.

My only guess is that the years of physical play took a toll on him and he hit the proverbial wall. Happened to guys like Peca, Clark, and we saw it happen with Richards as well, who also enjoyed his last productive season in 2012-13.

the only real 'events' that coincide were the Mike Smith knee slash and the Pominville suspension. Have to agree wth you that it just seems comparable to 30-year-old running backs.

 

[Sam]

the only real 'events' that coincide were the Mike Smith knee slash and the Pominville suspension. Have to agree wth you that it just seems comparable to 30-year-old running backs.

Coincided right with playing through the torn PCL in the 2013 playoffs.

 

[The Tikkanen]

If it's true he has decided to change his game to preserve his body it's a fascinating look into the human psyche. Brown did one thing well, he hit, you remove that and his production goes into the toilet, he's stripped of the C, fans want him traded-all signs point to change your game back but he won't. Now he's a mediocre perimeter player, all he had to do was keep hitting for a few more years and could have gone down a legend in LA forever. Now there will be a stain on his legacy as at some point his spot on the roster will be dealt with and it will be messy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

To be fair, he's still hitting--16th in the league and leading the Kings--but that's a long way down from leading the league, plus it's the BIG hits that seem to be missing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Brown used to also destroy a lot of big name players with hits and got them off their game. I won't forget his open ice hit on Chris Pronger that completely distracted Pronger the rest of the game. He did it to Lidstrom and Lang on Detroit, even remember him bulldozing Joe Sakic.

The last time he did that effectively was 2012. His hit on Henrik Sedin, even the Rozsival hit, those were both game changers. It makes a team lose their entire focus, and Brown was great at creating chaos with his hits. And he did all that while being a consistent threat to score 20+ goals and 50+ points.

Sadly that player is long gone. That's why it disappoints and aggravates me so much to see the player he has become now. He could've been one of the best power forwards of this era if he remained consistent, like a modern day Wendel Clark or Adam Deadmarsh (but without their fighting skills). Unfortunately I don't think we'll see him getting to that level of play and production any longer.

 

[johnjm22]

Brown used to draw tons of penalties too. He's pretty much stopped diving.