2016-17 Around the NHL Thread 53: 2017 Stanley Cup Champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins

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Basically my thoughts on "if Lundqvist played on X team..." at this point.

His collapses in game 2 in LA, game 3 in Tampa and [enter game here] against Pittsburgh 2016 and Ottawa 2017 are pretty much on him.


I'm not entirely certain it's fair to throw out his overall body of work in the playoffs for a bad game or a bad series here and there. And I think it's safe to say 'here and there' in this instance, as the guy has played more playoff games than anyone since the (first) lockout. 128 GP to MAF's 115.

It also ignores the offense which has given him 2.37 goals for per game in that same timeframe (4th lowest among teams with at least 10 playoff games played since 05-06).

Post-lockout has been dominated by the Hawks, Kings, and Pens. We know this. Where those teams rank in terms of GF/GP in the playoffs? 2nd, 7th, 1st, respectively. Rangers: 27th.

There's a ton of blame to go around, especially recently, but let's not ignore the teams we've given Hank to play behind.
 
I don't care that much that the Pens won. It's the Pens fans (and the new band-wagoners) that make the damn thing insufferable. Remind me to stay away from the main boards for the next month or so.

"Murray for the HOF...will he surpass Brodeur, Hasek, Roy?..."

"Is Crosby the greatest of all time? Look at his individual olympic and world cup of hockey accomplishments..."

"What does 3 SCs do for Malkin's legacy?..."

"Sullivan a top-10 coach of all time?..."
 
I don't care that much that the Pens won. It's the Pens fans (and the new band-wagoners) that make the damn thing insufferable. Remind me to stay away from the main boards for the next month or so.

"Murray for the HOF...will he surpass Brodeur, Hasek, Roy?..."

"Is Crosby the greatest of all time? Look at his individual olympic and world cup of hockey accomplishments..."

"What does 3 SCs do for Malkin's legacy?..."

"Sullivan a top-10 coach of all time?..."

My favorite was "Crosby is better than Jagr, he won more Cups"
 
I don't care that much that the Pens won. It's the Pens fans (and the new band-wagoners) that make the damn thing insufferable. Remind me to stay away from the main boards for the next month or so.

"Murray for the HOF...will he surpass Brodeur, Hasek, Roy?..."

"Is Crosby the greatest of all time? Look at his individual olympic and world cup of hockey accomplishments..."

"What does 3 SCs do for Malkin's legacy?..."

"Sullivan a top-10 coach of all time?..."

It's as if Patriot/Brady fans found their new sport. :help:
 
Contrary to what most people here think, I don't think Gorton is really backing Vigneault to that extent. Instead of signing him to a 3 year extension that would keep Vigneault here until 2020-2021, we gave him a pay raise on the final year of his current contract from $2M to $4M. So it's only a 2 year extension. It was also given out before his stupidity really showed in the playoffs.

I wonder if that extension wasn't given and his job hadn't felt so safe would he have made those same moronic decisions vs Ottawa? Something to ponder this summer...another summer without Stanley.

:)
 
I don't care that much that the Pens won. It's the Pens fans (and the new band-wagoners) that make the damn thing insufferable. Remind me to stay away from the main boards for the next month or so.

"Murray for the HOF...will he surpass Brodeur, Hasek, Roy?..."

"Is Crosby the greatest of all time? Look at his individual olympic and world cup of hockey accomplishments..."

"What does 3 SCs do for Malkin's legacy?..."

"Sullivan a top-10 coach of all time?..."

There was actually a thread asking if their anthem singer is the best of all time.

Pens fans are very tough to take.
 
There was actually a thread asking if their anthem singer is the best of all time.

Pens fans are very tough to take.

I went to the main boards today. Big mistake. It's sickening out there right now.


Here's a funny photoshop. Sorry if this was already posted.



19146271_1523129981095642_5059757520406613155_n.jpg
 


Basically my thoughts on "if Lundqvist played on X team..." at this point.

His collapses in game 2 in LA, game 3 in Tampa and [enter game here] against Pittsburgh 2016 and Ottawa 2017 are pretty much on him.


Find me a cup winning goalie that didn't have a horrible game or two en route to the championship.
 


Basically my thoughts on "if Lundqvist played on X team..." at this point.

His collapses in game 2 in LA, game 3 in Tampa and [enter game here] against Pittsburgh 2016 and Ottawa 2017 are pretty much on him.


Agreed. He single-handily lost games for the team the past 3 playoffs. (One where the team provided plenty of goal support)

Plus if Lundqvist played on those teams, they probably lose a key player because of his large contract and the salary cap.

Despite all this being said, I still think he's this generation's best goalie and the greatest NYR ever.
 
In my mind, when you take into account generations and era's and how the game was/is played from the time he arrived until now, he is the greatest player of all time. Destroyed the league during what was thought a "dead puck era" had a few "down" seasons in Washington still scoring 70 plus points in his years there. Came here and dominated, left for Russia, comes back and has been a legit top 9 guy potting 45-60 points since coming back. His skating may have dipped, but his strength and lower core are still as strong as it was as it was 20 years ago. Take into account that he left for 3 years and lost another 2 full seasons between 3 lockouts. Those 5 years if played, he'd easily be the 2nd and last player to ever score 2,000 points. Jagr has spanned generations. When he was a rookie there were still guys from the 70's playing FFS! Just crazy when you think about it. Always loved Jagr even as a kid when he was on Pittsburgh.
 
In my mind, when you take into account generations and era's and how the game was/is played from the time he arrived until now, he is the greatest player of all time. Destroyed the league during what was thought a "dead puck era" had a few "down" seasons in Washington still scoring 70 plus points in his years there. Came here and dominated, left for Russia, comes back and has been a legit top 9 guy potting 45-60 points since coming back. His skating may have dipped, but his strength and lower core are still as strong as it was as it was 20 years ago. Take into account that he left for 3 years and lost another 2 full seasons between 3 lockouts. Those 5 years if played, he'd easily be the 2nd and last player to ever score 2,000 points. Jagr has spanned generations. When he was a rookie there were still guys from the 70's playing FFS! Just crazy when you think about it. Always loved Jagr even as a kid when he was on Pittsburgh.

No matter the criteria, Orr and Gretzky, at the very least, were better
 
TGO is the best by far and away AINEC....i keep this in a word document on my computer anytime anyone ever says otherwise...


Stats and Facts
Gretzky is the youngest player to score 50 goals.
Marcel Dionne's best single season point total in his career was 137 points. Gretzky matched that in his first year. In fact, Gretzky didn't have fewer than 137 points in a season until over 10 years later in 1991-92 when he had 121.
He was not considered a rookie in his first year, but he still holds the record for most points (137) in a season by a first-year player (second is Teemu Selänne with 132) and most assists (86). He also has the most points (8) and assists (7) in one game by a first-year player.
Bobby Orr is one of the greatest players in NHL history. In Gretzky's second season, he broke Orr's record for most assists in one season (102) with 109. Gretzky did not have fewer than 102 assists until the 1991-92 season.
In his second season, he broke the NHL record for most points (152) held by superstar Phil Esposito with 164. In doing so, he also became the first player to average more than two points a game in the modern NHL. Mario Lemieux is the only other player in the NHL to do that.
In his third season, Gretzky did what many thought was impossible. First, he scored 50 goals in 39 games. Next, he broke Esposito’s record for most goals in a season (76). Then, he hit the 200-point plateau. He finished the season setting new records with 212 points, 92 goals, and 120 assists.
After scoring 212 points the year before, he had what many people called a "disappointing" season in 1982-83 with only 196 points. Even though he had a "disappointing" season, he still set a new record for assists with 125.
Gretzky is the only player to reach 200 points in a season. He did it four times in 5 years between 1981-82 and 1985-86.
In 1983-84, Gretzky set a record with a 51-game point scoring streak. During that streak, he had 61 goals and 92 assists for 153 points. That is exactly three points a game, which is amazing considering that he had a separated shoulder for much of that streak. After that streak ended, he took 6 games off to rest his shoulder.
Gretzky has scored the magical 50 goals in 50 games or less three times in his career, more than anyone else. Brett Hull did it twice.
Considering that only one player besides Gretzky has ever averaged two points a game in a season, what he did in 1985-86 is truly astounding. He averaged over 2 assists a game that season. He had 163 assists in 80 games and still managed to score 52 goals.
In 1989, he broke Gordie Howe's record for most points in a career. It took Howe 26 years to get 1850 points. It took Gretzky only 10. Gretzky averaged over 180 points a season for those 10 years. His average was better than anyone else's best (except for Mario Lemieux, who achieved over 180 points once in his career).
Only two players besides Gretzky have ever had 100 assists in an NHL season. Mario Lemieux did it once with 114. Bobby Orr also did it once with 102. Gretzky did it 11 times consecutively. During that streak, his best season (1985-86) he had 163 assists and his worst season (1989-90) he had 102. He holds the top eight spots in the record books for most assists in a season.
He had 1669 points in 696 games while playing in Edmonton.
Wayne Gretzky scored more goals than anyone else in hockey history. Ignoring all of Gretzky's goals, however, he still would have won the Art Ross Trophy for leading scorer four times and still would have more career points than anyone else. His 1963 career assists are more than Gordie Howe's 1850 and Mark Messier's 1887 points.
Gretzky played a total of 1788 professional regular season and playoff games in the NHL and WHA, amassing 1072 goals and 2297 assists for a total of 3369 points. Gordie Howe is second in all three categories with 1071 goals, 1518 assists, and 2589 points.
Gretzky's career points total of 3239 (2857+382) for regular and playoff games combined is slightly higher than that of all 6 Sutter brothers combined (3209, 2934+275).

Awards
He won nine Hart Trophies, the NHL's most valuable player award, and eight of these were awarded in consecutive years from 1980-1987. In fact, Gretzky holds the record for most MVP awards of any player in American professional sports.

Hart Memorial Trophy (most valuable player) -1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1989
Art Ross Trophy (scoring champion) -1981, 1982 ,1983 ,1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991, 1994
Conn Smythe Trophy (playoff most valuable player) - 1985, 1988
Lester B. Pearson Award (outstanding player, voted by the players) -1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy (most gentlemanly player) -1980, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999
NHL Plus/Minus Award (best plus-minus rating) -1982, 1984, 1985, 1987
Chrysler-Dodge/NHL Performer of the Year -1985, 1986, 1987
Lester Patrick Trophy (outstanding service to hockey in the United States) -1994
NHL All-Star Game MVP-1983, 1989, 1999
NHL First All-Star Team-1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1991
NHL Second All-Star Team-1980, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1997, 1998
 
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