WJC: 2016 — Russia Roster Talk

[ps241]

"Keep me searching for a heart of go-old".

Yea I think you have a good point on this one.

 

[Atas2000]

It's just funny that they still have to bring him when he's really not in their top three and possibly not even their top five goaltending prospects. Hockey politics at it's finest!

Following stpid hypes at it's finest I'd say. Who said Tretiak is not in a top 3? Trushkov has had the chance to prove it and failed.

The Tretiak hate is as irrational as any. The fact that the drop off beyond #2 is huge desn't change the other fact that no other goalie has proven he's head and shoulders above Tretiak. But people are just so obsessed with their Tretiak hate that they just would never admit it.

There are 2 good goaltending prospects this year in Russia.

 

[Atas2000]

Do you all think that Provorov will be Russia's go to dman this year?

He is on paper. He will have to prove he belongs there.

 

[Atas2000]

Feels like there is a good number of mature players but the team really lacks high end prospects compared to other years.

Polunin kraskovsky korshkov were easily solid in khl and dominated mhl.

Dergachyov alone can cause physical problems for any team.
Guryanov has been a dissapointment in khl, just looking at his stats.
Kaprizov seems good, hopefully he can be a leader.

Otherwise this feels like a really subpar year, especially when you consider the goalies. It's hard to see them making it to the final..

Anyone else think so?

No, just as in recent history 2 very strong goaltenders. They could put this team in a position to go deep on their own.

Your evaluation of players is also pretty weird. A 18 y.o. Guryanov not scoring n bunches in the KHL doesn't mean anything. He won't face grown men at the WJC, he will have skilled linemates, he will have ice time. I fully expect him to be one of the leaders. And just because Kaprizov scores more doesn't mean he can be a leader. Bragin will have to find him adequate linemates.

Subpar year? Please remind me when was the last time we've had a top 10 pick defenceman on the team? The D is still thin... as always.

The forward group is actually really deep compared to recent years. There might be no future Tarasenko on the team, but one can easily assemble at least 3 potent scoring lines.

 

[Passionis]

I agree goalies are pretty good. I wasnt aware samsonov played that much in khl.

The team does have depth but no exceptional players. No tarasenko, kucherovs or nichushkin. Not even buchnevich caliber. On defense i liked the years of orlov zaitsev arzamastsev zadorov better than the current year.

Most unfortunate though I just didn't see the same fire in their eyes as in previous years. I hope im wrong though

 

[nelsojc]

Following stpid hypes at it's finest I'd say. Who said Tretiak is not in a top 3? Trushkov has had the chance to prove it and failed.

The Tretiak hate is as irrational as any. The fact that the drop off beyond #2 is huge desn't change the other fact that no other goalie has proven he's head and shoulders above Tretiak. But people are just so obsessed with their Tretiak hate that they just would never admit it.

There are 2 good goaltending prospects this year in Russia.

Lol Tretiak was one of the biggest sieves I've ever seen in the Super Series

 

[Statsy]

Following stpid hypes at it's finest I'd say. Who said Tretiak is not in a top 3? Trushkov has had the chance to prove it and failed.

The Tretiak hate is as irrational as any. The fact that the drop off beyond #2 is huge desn't change the other fact that no other goalie has proven he's head and shoulders above Tretiak. But people are just so obsessed with their Tretiak hate that they just would never admit it.

There are 2 good goaltending prospects this year in Russia.

No, just as in recent history 2 very strong goaltenders. They could put this team in a position to go deep on their own.

Your evaluation of players is also pretty weird. A 18 y.o. Guryanov not scoring n bunches in the KHL doesn't mean anything. He won't face grown men at the WJC, he will have skilled linemates, he will have ice time. I fully expect him to be one of the leaders. And just because Kaprizov scores more doesn't mean he can be a leader. Bragin will have to find him adequate linemates.

Subpar year? Please remind me when was the last time we've had a top 10 pick defenceman on the team? The D is still thin... as always.

The forward group is actually really deep compared to recent years. There might be no future Tarasenko on the team, but one can easily assemble at least 3 potent scoring lines.

Wow, someone's a little defensive.

You say Trushkov had the chance to prove it and failed. Well, actually the SS ended with Tretiak on the bench while Trushkov absolutely stood on his head for the last couple of games. The only possible way you would take Tretiak over Trushkov after that is if politics are involved. Having said that, I'm not sure what the rest of the goaltending scene looks like in Russia, so maybe Tretiak really is up there. From what I've seen however, that can't be a great sign if that's the case.

As for the rest of the team, I'm sorry to tell you that this is definitely a down year from an overall talent perspective. You say the team can put together three scoring lines, but a team like Russia should be able to do that every year with ease. This roster is definitely short on the high end skill that we are accustomed to seeing and had they been in the other group, they would have had trouble scoring. As they are playing in the weaker group, it might be less of a problem.

Of course, all these judgments are being made on paper, and the team will have every opportunity to put all the naysayers behind them with a good team performance on the ice. I guess we shall soon see.

 

[Atas2000]

Lol Tretiak was one of the biggest sieves I've ever seen in the Super Series

So? Use some logic. Does that prove that there are better goalies than him behind him in the depth chart? There was Trushkov who's had the chance to do better. For the umphth time yes, Tretiak isn't any goood. But that is pretty normal when you go beyond the top 2 prospects for such a specific crop as one(or two) birth years. The only reason we are having this pointless discussion is Tretiak's last name. Bobkov and Shikin weren't exactly future stars as evidenced by their current status. And they were at the WJC and won the gold. Nobody cared about why they were chosen. Why? Because eir last names do not sound like Tretiak?

There are good goalies and there are bad ones. Nobody tries to make Tretiak the starter. That would be indeed rdiculus. Other than that I don't see a plausible reason for the whole discussion.

 

[Atas2000]

Wow, someone's a little defensive.

Wow! Someone is trying to act offensive... and to find in my posts the things that never were there. What are you trying to prove by getting personal in a simple discussion about goaltenders?

You say Trushkov had the chance to prove it and failed. Well, actually the SS ended with Tretiak on the bench while Trushkov absolutely stood on his head for the last couple of games. The only possible way you would take Tretiak over Trushkov after that is if politics are involved.

Yu are just trying to prove your point by making claims. Before the SS I expected Trushkov to be better tan Tretiak in the series. After the seres I had to admit Trushkov was an unpleasant surprise to me like to some oher posters right here. That's a simple fact. I couldn't see that Trushkov standing on his head you are writing about. Waht I could see were two goaltenders not worty of a starter spot at WJC.

Having said that, I'm not sure what the rest of the goaltending scene looks like in Russia, so maybe Tretiak really is up there. From what I've seen however, that can't be a great sign if that's the case.

Now that popular myth again. That's a U20 team. Guys from the same birth year basically. A lot of them will have a career as 4th liners in the KHL. Some of them won't have a professional career maybe. But people continue to expect depth beyond all reason. Having one good goaltending prospect per birth year isn't a given. No matter how bad Tretiak is compared to the best, he is still stopping pucks. He's just pretty average. And if his level wouldn't be the average we'd have 30 starters from Russia in the NHL by now, Borovskys and Varlamovs flooding teh league.

As for the rest of the team, I'm sorry to tell you that this is definitely a down year from an overall talent perspective. You say the team can put together three scoring lines, but a team like Russia should be able to do that every year with ease.

See aove for your views on depth. What do call a scoring line on a junior NT? If you meanthat there should be a Malkin on every scoring line, then you know yourself that this is not possible for any nation. Other nations won't exactly have McDavids either. We've had teams you obviusly consider stronger that this year's team with much less depth. Do you remember the names beyond Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and Panarin from that team that won gold?

The russian development system has started producing players with a better average level. That's a fact. There are just no super talented unique guys in recent years,but I doubt that that is on the system. You can't teach an Ovechkin. It's in the genes.

 

[Yakushev72]

Following stpid hypes at it's finest I'd say. Who said Tretiak is not in a top 3? Trushkov has had the chance to prove it and failed.

The Tretiak hate is as irrational as any. The fact that the drop off beyond #2 is huge desn't change the other fact that no other goalie has proven he's head and shoulders above Tretiak. But people are just so obsessed with their Tretiak hate that they just would never admit it.

There are 2 good goaltending prospects this year in Russia.

The "Tretiak hate" is based on the fact that he has only shown very poor play whenever he has had an opportunity to display it. Against Canada in the recent series, he clearly showed that he didn't belong on the ice against teams at that level. Against any of the top teams in the WJC, his complete inability to move his body across the goal mouth would result in at least 6 or 7 goals allowed, and that is too big a margin for his team to overcome. They have decided to place him at #3, and I agree that Trushkov showed nothing better, but there is a huge gap between the first 2 and Tretiak , and if it should ever come down to Tretiak, well, you can forget it!

 

[nelsojc]

So? Use some logic. Does that prove that there are better goalies than him behind him in the depth chart? There was Trushkov who's had the chance to do better. For the umphth time yes, Tretiak isn't any goood. But that is pretty normal when you go beyond the top 2 prospects for such a specific crop as one(or two) birth years. The only reason we are having this pointless discussion is Tretiak's last name. Bobkov and Shikin weren't exactly future stars as evidenced by their current status. And they were at the WJC and won the gold. Nobody cared about why they were chosen. Why? Because eir last names do not sound like Tretiak?

There are good goalies and there are bad ones. Nobody tries to make Tretiak the starter. That would be indeed rdiculus. Other than that I don't see a plausible reason for the whole discussion.

If there is no better goalie behind him in the depth chart Russia better start improving their goalie development...he's awful

 

[Fantomas]

I agree goalies are pretty good. I wasnt aware samsonov played that much in khl.

The team does have depth but no exceptional players. No tarasenko, kucherovs or nichushkin. Not even buchnevich caliber. On defense i liked the years of orlov zaitsev arzamastsev zadorov better than the current year.

Most unfortunate though I just didn't see the same fire in their eyes as in previous years. I hope im wrong though

No Tarasenko, Kuznetsov or Kucherov - yes. Nichushkin was never all that special at WJC. Buchnevich struggled last year. Provorov could be as good as Orlov or Zadorov. Don't know what's so good about Arzamastsev and why Sharipzyanov or Sergeev or Boikov couldn't be as good.

 

[Fantomas]

The Tretiak hate is as irrational as any. The fact that the drop off beyond #2 is huge desn't change the other fact that no other goalie has proven he's head and shoulders above Tretiak.

Tretiak has been a terrible goaltender in the MHL and VHL in the last two years. Easily the worst in both leagues.

 

[Fantomas]

As for the rest of the team, I'm sorry to tell you that this is definitely a down year from an overall talent perspective. You say the team can put together three scoring lines, but a team like Russia should be able to do that every year with ease. This roster is definitely short on the high end skill that we are accustomed to seeing and had they been in the other group, they would have had trouble scoring. As they are playing in the weaker group, it might be less of a problem.

Why don't you do a comparative analysis with previous Russian teams?

This is a very well rounded roster and looks much better than last year's team to my eyes.

This year's WJC is going to be very competitive because I see at least five teams that are good enough, on paper, to win gold - US, Canada, Finland, Sweden and Russia. This means at least two of them will leave without a medal.

However this mantra of Russia having a worse-than-usual team appears to have originated after the Subway Series, and everyone has been repeating this since. Even though it is not acknowledged that Russia just sent a worse-than-normal team to SS this year.

If Russia medals, and I think they will, I will be here to remind everyone of this.

 

[Fantomas]

For comparison's sake, here is the 2014 team: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1651&year0=2014&status=stats

Here is the 2015 team: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1651&year0=2015&status=stats

I would like to know how this year's team is worse than usual when the likes of Damir Zhafyarov, Alexander Sharov and Vyacheslav Leshchenko were standing out on those teams.

I think Provorov is at least as good as Zadorov, maybe better. Kamenev is miles better than Grigorenko, especially defensively and on faceoffs. Kaprizov is at least on par with Tolchinsky. Svechnikov at least on par with Barbashev.

Admittedly Ziat Paigin would have been nice to see on the roster this year. But was he even better last year than someone like Lyamkin? We'll see.

Finally Samsonov is Russia's best goaltending prospect since Vasilevski.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I see Pavel Kraskovsky has made the official invite list; am assuming he has a pretty good chance of making the team? Do you guys agree?

Hopefully he eventually follows through with his plans to move overseas and join the Jets organization for next season. Another great sleeper pick by Cheveldayoff & his staff.

 

[MardyBum]

I see Pavel Kraskovsky has made the official invite list; am assuming he has a pretty good chance of making the team? Do you guys agree?

Hopefully he eventually follows through with his plans to move overseas and join the Jets organization for next season. Another great sleeper pick by Cheveldayoff & his staff.

Hah, just came in to ask this as well.

What are his chances of making the final roster?

 

[Yakushev72]

For comparison's sake, here is the 2014 team: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1651&year0=2014&status=stats

Here is the 2015 team: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1651&year0=2015&status=stats

I would like to know how this year's team is worse than usual when the likes of Damir Zhafyarov, Alexander Sharov and Vyacheslav Leshchenko were standing out on those teams.

I think Provorov is at least as good as Zadorov, maybe better. Kamenev is miles better than Grigorenko, especially defensively and on faceoffs. Kaprizov is at least on par with Tolchinsky. Svechnikov at least on par with Barbashev.

Admittedly Ziat Paigin would have been nice to see on the roster this year. But was he even better last year than someone like Lyamkin? We'll see.

Finally Samsonov is Russia's best goaltending prospect since Vasilevski.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but you picked 3 high energy, explosive players who put a lot of pressure on opposing goaltenders in the WJC. I hope this year's group also produces a few unexpected sources of energy and offensive pressure.

 

[Fantomas]

I would say that there are plenty of expected energy players this year: Dergachev, Fazleev, Trenin, Svetlakov, Korshkov. And unlike many players in the past most of these are NHL drafteees.

 

[Caser]

I see Pavel Kraskovsky has made the official invite list; am assuming he has a pretty good chance of making the team? Do you guys agree?

Hopefully he eventually follows through with his plans to move overseas and join the Jets organization for next season. Another great sleeper pick by Cheveldayoff & his staff.

Hah, just came in to ask this as well.

What are his chances of making the final roster?

Kraskovsky should be a lock for the middle-six center position.

 

[malkinfan]

Wow, someone's a little defensive.

You say Trushkov had the chance to prove it and failed. Well, actually the SS ended with Tretiak on the bench while Trushkov absolutely stood on his head for the last couple of games. The only possible way you would take Tretiak over Trushkov after that is if politics are involved. Having said that, I'm not sure what the rest of the goaltending scene looks like in Russia, so maybe Tretiak really is up there. From what I've seen however, that can't be a great sign if that's the case.

Don't bother. Some of Russian guys and myself tried explaining this to him in another thread. IMO you are correct. Tretiak is the worst goalie Russia has sent over in a junior U20 NT event since Medvedev (old fatso). It defies logic how someone could have watched this series and made an argument that Tretiak somehow outplayed someone? Meanwhile Trushkov is completely lights out spectacular for the final 3 games he played and was still somehow outplayed by this garbage siv? ...Right
Back to point, there are several better goaltenders available back in home country who are miles ahead of Tretiak. The point may be mute as he likely wont see a game, just sad to see his sorry &^* get to go instead of a worthy player.

 

[malkinfan]

Tretiak has been a terrible goaltender in the MHL and VHL in the last two years. Easily the worst in both leagues.

This.

 

[helicecopter]

I would say that there are plenty of expected energy players this year: Dergachev, Fazleev, Trenin, Svetlakov, Korshkov. And unlike many players in the past most of these are NHL drafteees.

Korshkov and energy are two words I didn't expect to see together

 

[Fantomas]

Korshkov is very good at fighting for pucks around the net and getting to rebounds.

 

[Passionis]

Korshkov is very good at fighting for pucks around the net and getting to rebounds.

Between him and kraskovsky they are tough to knock off the puck even in KHL, in Jrs the opponents will have a hard time with these, then there are nekolenko and dergachyov who are also mobile power forwards