WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[thepuckmonster]

Virtanen is terrible as well. Can't/won't pass and zero hockey sense. Very disappointing.

Virtanen plays his best when he's being a bit reckless or in your face.

I don't think he's had a good tournament up to this point but I think in games like these there's no chippiness or high emotion.

I want to see him playing some of the better competition and see if he can replicate his performance against Sweden in exhibition.

I think he's been playing a "responsible" game but really I don't know if that's mandated by the coach or if it's in his head. I'll never make the argument that he's a cerebral player but trying to force him into a strong cycle position isn't utilizing his skill set.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Is this the thread where we come to bash other teams prospects?

It's getting old real fast.

Tearing down another teams prospect wont prop yours up.

Pretty much my thoughts but it seems to have been ignored.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

How were the four lines juggled? Missed the game

 

[xIsle]

Is Virtanen another Brad Isbister? He reminds me a bit of him. Good size, strong skater, nice shots, etc. But seems to lack the hockey sense.
Probably a future 3rd line player in the NHL with some 2nd unit PP ice time.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Is Virtanen another Brad Isbister? He reminds me a bit of him. Good size, strong skater, nice shots, etc. But seems to lack the hockey sense.
Probably a future 3rd line player in the NHL with some 2nd unit PP ice time.

I don't agree and it's not because I'm a Canucks fan. I've followed his career for a few years now even before he was drafted.

His hockey IQ is average but he needs to be able to play a bit reckless to be effective. He's at his best when he can fly down the wing, skate over or through a guy and cut to the net. His shot isn't just nice, he has a ridiculous release and can score from almost anywhere.

Canucks haven't managed him properly this year so I really do think that a lot of the passive play is due to him second guessing what will make him effective.

 

[1Gold Standard]

How's our roster lookin for next year? This one seems to lack star power.

with 9 1997 born players on this year's team you are pretty much looking at the star power for next year's team. minus a few guys who'll undoubtedly be in the NHL and unavailable for next year's tourney. and don't look for any of the 1998 born players for star appeal. 1998 born players (2016 NHL draft) is by far Canada's worst draft in a long long long time.

 

[Alberta Yote]

At this point Virtanen might be better off in an energy role than on a top scoring line. But since he and Quennville seemed pencilled into those lines whether deserved or not he should concentrate on playing physical, lead the forecheck, get the puck to Strome, find an open shooting area and be ready.

And I'm not saying Strome is infallible but that may be that lines best chance for success.

 

[thepuckmonster]

At this point Virtanen might be better off in an energy role than on a top scoring line. But since he and Quennville seemed pencilled into those lines whether deserved or not he should concentrate on playing physical, lead the forecheck, get the puck to Strome, find an open shooting area and be ready.

And I'm not saying Strome is infallible but that may be that lines best chance for success.

I would agree with this. Virtanen in an energy role will allow him to play his style without the pressure.

 

[Peasy]

In all fairness Marner does need to put a bit of weight on. He's pretty light but also very young, he won't be playing at 170ish in the NHL. 5'11" is around league average for forwards but he is in the lower weight percentile for his height.

If he adds 10lbs he will have a much better chance of being durable. Not that I think he won't be anyhow but after RNH being derailed due to injury because he was so slight it's something to at least consider.

Without a doubt he needs to put on weight, and im sure he will, but as the Leafs have seen with Nylander's first year of development, its not an impossible task. Its fairly obvious he never peaked early in the terms of growth and physical development.

But when theres a player like Gaudreau, who is even smaller than Marner, having a lot of success, I'm not to concerned about his 15 year old body structure and frail shot; especially when hes only 18. (In no way am I saying Marner will be as good, or better than Gaudreau, lets get that out of the way right now).

 

[thepuckmonster]

Without a doubt he needs to put on weight, and im sure he will, but as the Leafs have seen with Nylander's first year of development, its not an impossible task. Its fairly obvious he never peaked early in the terms of growth and physical development.

But when theres a player like Gaudreau, who is even smaller than Marner, having a lot of success, I'm not to concerned about his 15 year old body structure and frail shot; especially when hes only 18. (In no way am I saying Marner will be as good, or better than Gaudreau, lets get that out of the way right now).

I think the benefit Gaudreau had was an extra 4 years of development in a fairly physical league (NCAA). Obviously at 22 he is more aware of how to "protect" himself in situations than an 18 year old.

And I frankly I find the hyperbolic "Marner has the body of a 15 year old girl" statements to be pretty ridiculous. He's bigger than the majority of his peer group in normal circumstance. It's totally feasible for him to put on 5-10lbs of muscle by next September without effecting his skating.

Then again I'm really just attempting to be reasonable in a thread where hyperbole seems to run rampant so maybe I'm just insane.

 

[Volica]

I don't agree and it's not because I'm a Canucks fan. I've followed his career for a few years now even before he was drafted.

His hockey IQ is average but he needs to be able to play a bit reckless to be effective. He's at his best when he can fly down the wing, skate over or through a guy and cut to the net. His shot isn't just nice, he has a ridiculous release and can score from almost anywhere.

Canucks haven't managed him properly this year so I really do think that a lot of the passive play is due to him second guessing what will make him effective.

I'm a Hitmen guy, I attend probably 2/3 of their home games (I miss the rest, well, because you really don't feel obligated to go ). Going into the draft, my real fear with him was that he bullied his way through his 17 year old season; and that his game wouldn't translate well into the NHL. He plays a PF game in the body of a normal forward; so while being a coordinated 6'1''-6'2'' and 200 lbs pounder is fairly big in the CHL where there are still growing 16 year olds; the NHL is a completely different beast, where NHL Dmen these days have to be big and heavy. He's about the size of Jarome Iginla at his smallest, but his north-south skating and speed generation should help him continue being a banger.

His shot is excellent. I'd say tops in his draft year. I see him settling into a middle 6 role in the bigs; I don't think he'll be a star in the league, but I think he'll be a decent producer that can bang. He was still the right pick for Vancouver.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I'm a Hitmen guy, I attend probably 2/3 of their home games (I miss the rest, well, because you really don't feel obligated to go ). Going into the draft, my real fear with him was that he bullied his way through his 17 year old season; and that his game wouldn't translate well into the NHL. He plays a PF game in the body of a normal forward; so while being a coordinated 6'1''-6'2'' and 200 lbs pounder is fairly big in the CHL where there are still growing 16 year olds; the NHL is a completely different beast, where NHL Dmen these days have to be big and heavy. He's about the size of Jarome Iginla at his smallest, but his north-south skating and speed generation should help him continue being a banger.

His shot is excellent. I'd say tops in his draft year. I see him settling into a middle 6 role in the bigs; I don't think he'll be a star in the league, but I think he'll be a decent producer that can bang. He was still the right pick for Vancouver.

Thanks for the input. I don't see him having star potential either but I do think he was the right fit for us.

 

[Volica]

I think the benefit Gaudreau had was an extra 4 years of development in a fairly physical league (NCAA). Obviously at 22 he is more aware of how to "protect" himself in situations than an 18 year old.

Pst. Johnny only did 3 years of college

Marner will have to learn it, Johnny was tiny during his entire career; Marner wasn't exceptionally small at any level. Skill >>>> anything; in todays NHL. Your only benefit is when you get the skill in a big body now

 

[86Habs]

A nice offensive effort today, but its tough getting a read on the line combinations against such weak competition. A few things are clear to me, though:

- Quenneville should not be in the top-6. Full stop.

- Marner and Point seem like a perfect match together and I thought both guys had great games today.

- Barzal and Konecny were both electric today. Both guys created opportunities every time they were on the ice, and Konecny is such a dynamic skater and puck handler that he seems a bit wasted on the third line.

- Virtanen had a relatively poor game today and didn't seem to mesh well with Strome. Based on what I've seen over the course of these two games I don't like Virtanen in a scoring role on this team; similar to last year he has a one-track mind with the puck on his stick, and shoots from wherever he happens to be. Strome likes to patiently set up shop in the offensive zone and work the play from there, and him and Virtanen never seemed to be in rhythm. Virtanen is probably better suited to an energy line role on this team.

- Beauvillier deserves more ice time than he's been given, but inexplicably hasn't appeared to earned Lowry's trust yet.

- Stephens, Crouse and Chartier had good games today. Crouse was especially noticeable.

- No real observations on the defence. I like Hickey a lot, as well as Hicketts. I thought Sanheim played well today. McKeown shouldn't see much ice as we move along.

I'd like to see the following forward group against the Swiss tomorrow:

Perlini - Point - Marner
Beauvillier - Strome - Konecny
Crouse - Stephens - Virtanen
Chartier - Barzal - Gauthier
Quenneville

While I thought Perlini was good today, I'd like to see his size, speed and forechecking ability as complimentary to the Point-Marner combination. He couldn't capitalize on some prime scoring chances today, but is doing the right things.

Beauvillier and Konecny both have better offensive instincts than Virtanen and have skillsets that should compliment Strome's nicely.

It's a shame Barzal and Gauthier ended up on the 4th line, but Lowry seems committed to Barzal at C and so far they are still seeing a good amount of ES and PP ice time.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Pst. Johnny only did 3 years of college

Marner will have to learn it, Johnny was tiny during his entire career; Marner wasn't exceptionally small at any level. Skill >>>> anything; in todays NHL. Your only benefit is when you get the skill in a big body now

Pfft that academic slacker.

But yes, Marner will have to learn how to do it, which I think he will given his high hockey IQ.

It's why I don't see him possibly being cooked in the AHL for a year as necessarily a horrible thing, depending on what the Leafs plan is for the rebuild.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

At the combine Marner was 5'11" 160 lbs.

He is probably at this point between 160 and 170, say 165. London Knights website says 164 lbs.

He could conceivably put on another 10 pounds of muscle prior to next year's season, putting him at 5'11" 175 lbs. Not unheard of. That certainly would put him on the smaller side, but he is not your typical player, he is extremely elusive. I think he could survive, especially since Babcock would likely be smart in his usage.

As for this tournament, these are 18 year old kids. I don't even know why we care how big they are. As long as he is of a proper build when he is on the Leafs, that's what matters.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Defence! Defence! Defence!

Canada's weakness right now. Who will step up? Blackwood will be the key, a good goalie can make all the difference.

 

[Roy Baby*]

Well its a good thing this tournament isn't being played with NHLers.

But yeah, nobody that has a small frame can make it in the NHL, such a shame... You must at least be 6'0, 200lbs or else you have no future, why even bother drafting people under 6'0?

And look, an American from Arizona posting in the Canada roster thread just to berate the player that was drafted after there pick, I hope that makes you feel better about missing out on Eichel.

I'm actually from Canada, bud. It's called "relocation" for more money down south - quite a popular strategy by many Canadians. And why would I care ? Yotes have the best prospects in the league and will continue that trend in this seasons draft.

As for your sarcastic hyperbolic rant about size - well yeah you missed the point completely. Point is there's an unhealthy obsession with Virtanen and Marner from really frustrated fans from both Van and TO, when both have flaws; I thought this was a Team Canada thread and there's other (and better) players to talk about - not to mention the team as a whole as this is a team game.

But yeah, something something Gaudreau something something Patrick Kane something PPG trajectory something Corsi..Marner specifically has a lot of work to put in the gym and Jake...well idk how you suddenly get a brain...you could slam any prospect really. Its an annoying pissing match and neither side is winning so might as well celebrate the TEAM victory instead of having a weird focus on the aforementioned players.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

A nice offensive effort today, but its tough getting a read on the line combinations against such weak competition. A few things are clear to me, though:

- Quenneville should not be in the top-6. Full stop.

- Marner and Point seem like a perfect match together and I thought both guys had great games today.

- Barzal and Konecny were both electric today. Both guys created opportunities every time they were on the ice, and Konecny is such a dynamic skater and puck handler that he seems a bit wasted on the third line.

- Virtanen had a relatively poor game today and didn't seem to mesh well with Strome. Based on what I've seen over the course of these two games I don't like Virtanen in a scoring role on this team; similar to last year he has a one-track mind with the puck on his stick, and shoots from wherever he happens to be. Strome likes to patiently set up shop in the offensive zone and work the play from there, and him and Virtanen never seemed to be in rhythm. Virtanen is probably better suited to an energy line role on this team.

- Beauvillier deserves more ice time than he's been given, but inexplicably hasn't appeared to earned Lowry's trust yet.

- Stephens, Crouse and Chartier had good games today. Crouse was especially noticeable.

- No real observations on the defence. I like Hickey a lot, as well as Hicketts. I thought Sanheim played well today. McKeown shouldn't see much ice as we move along.

I'd like to see the following forward group against the Swiss tomorrow:

Perlini - Point - Marner
Beauvillier - Strome - Konecny
Crouse - Stephens - Virtanen
Chartier - Barzal - Gauthier
Quenneville

While I thought Perlini was good today, I'd like to see his size, speed and forechecking ability as complimentary to the Point-Marner combination. He couldn't capitalize on some prime scoring chances today, but is doing the right things.

Beauvillier and Konecny both have better offensive instincts than Virtanen and have skillsets that should compliment Strome's nicely.

It's a shame Barzal and Gauthier ended up on the 4th line, but Lowry seems committed to Barzal at C and so far they are still seeing a good amount of ES and PP ice time.

Wish I could rep you, bud. Agree on all points.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Barzal's performance thus far is exciting from a Team Canada perspective. I thought he was the best player on the ice today where he was named player of the game. Could have had even a better night, but a beautiful feed and a snipe just shows why some of us were so high on him in the draft. Looks like he is getting better with each shift.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Pfft that academic slacker.

But yes, Marner will have to learn how to do it, which I think he will given his high hockey IQ.

It's why I don't see him possibly being cooked in the AHL for a year as necessarily a horrible thing, depending on what the Leafs plan is for the rebuild.

The problem is that he can't be cooked in the AHL next year. It's either juniors or NHL.

Personally, I say ship the kid to Sweden for a year. (I know, that will never happen )

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Defence! Defence! Defence!

Canada's weakness right now. Who will step up? Blackwood will be the key, a good goalie can make all the difference.

I didn't see the game, how did Dermott look? He has been decent as far as I can tell so far through the pre-tournament and the Sweden game.

 

[thepuckmonster]

The problem is that he can't be cooked in the AHL next year. It's either juniors or NHL.

Personally, I say ship the kid to Sweden for a year. (I know, that will never happen )

Well, the Canucks allowed Jensen to do it. Granted his horrible now but that really didn't have anything to do with sending him to Sweden.

It's not a bad idea though.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I didn't see the game, how did Dermott look? He has been decent as far as I can tell so far through the pre-tournament and the Sweden game.

Dermott was fine. Didn't stand out, but that may be good. No mistakes I saw. Play a quiet efficient game.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Well, the Canucks allowed Jensen to do it. Granted his horrible now but that really didn't have anything to do with sending him to Sweden.

It's not a bad idea though.

I remember the Jensen pick. Seemed like a big kid with lots of potential but it kind of fizzled out that's for sure.