WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[Albi34]

This Strome vs Marner garbage is insane. Both were among the best players on the ice today and they were drafted 3 and 4 for a reason. They are BOTH really good. It would be different if one was clearly playing ahead of the other but that's not the case (and likely wont be), so people are just putting down the other prospect for the sake of it. Let's cheer for the whole team to do well!

 

[Cotton]

and the cross ice between players tape to tape pass to Marner for the goal.

People still don't really understand Strome's non flashy game. And now playing 5 on 5 with two other players without a lot of flash and it is going to seem underwhelming.

It was a nice pass, but Strome isn't the one to pick the corner. It's possible they both did something good there.

Yet still looked better than Marner. Just not as flashy,which is all that matters on HF.

He hasn't done anything yet that would qualify him as better. They've both been good.

I'm actually from Canada, bud. It's called "relocation" for more money down south - quite a popular strategy by many Canadians. And why would I care ? Yotes have the best prospects in the league and will continue that trend in this seasons draft.

As for your sarcastic hyperbolic rant about size - well yeah you missed the point completely. Point is there's an unhealthy obsession with Virtanen and Marner from really frustrated fans from both Van and TO, when both have flaws; I thought this was a Team Canada thread and there's other (and better) players to talk about - not to mention the team as a whole as this is a team game.

But yeah, something something Gaudreau something something Patrick Kane something PPG trajectory something Corsi..Marner specifically has a lot of work to put in the gym and Jake...well idk how you suddenly get a brain...you could slam any prospect really. Its an annoying pissing match and neither side is winning so might as well celebrate the TEAM victory instead of having a weird focus on the aforementioned players.

Then why don't you do that and **** about everything else.

 

[Alberta Yote]

It was a nice pass, but Strome isn't the one to pick the corner. It's possible they both did something .

Not sure why you quoted me to make your point. I haven't made any negative posts about Marner. I think he's a dynamic player and the most purely skilled Canadian player.


But sure, it was a snipe.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Team looked fine today but... look who we were playing. I hate to see all this stupid beefing back and forth about individual players. I am going to assume Hockey Canada knows more than you and me and I will bow to their knowledge. Let's just hope we get better each game.

As for our pool...

If I was a betting man, we will likely finish 3rd in our pool - with Sweden in first and the U.S. in 2nd. That is NOT what I hoped. We will likely be looking at Finland in the 1st round of the playoffs and, IF we win that, Sweden and then Russia/US. To finish first, we need to beat Sweden by 4...

Sweden is a +1
U.S. is a +1
Canada is a -2

...and that is NOT going to happen. The U.S. will be rooting for us to win in regulation on NYE.

For an easier path, we need Finland to falter and finish 3rd or 4th - 2nd would be the worst case scenario for us. Anyway, our loss on Boxing Day has made our path painfully difficult but we have no one to blame but ourselves. Pride be damned, if it makes our path easier, throw the game on NYE.

If my math/thinking/logic is incorrect, feel free to correct me.

 

[xIsle]

A nice offensive effort today, but its tough getting a read on the line combinations against such weak competition. A few things are clear to me, though:

- Quenneville should not be in the top-6. Full stop.

- Marner and Point seem like a perfect match together and I thought both guys had great games today.

- Barzal and Konecny were both electric today. Both guys created opportunities every time they were on the ice, and Konecny is such a dynamic skater and puck handler that he seems a bit wasted on the third line.

- Virtanen had a relatively poor game today and didn't seem to mesh well with Strome. Based on what I've seen over the course of these two games I don't like Virtanen in a scoring role on this team; similar to last year he has a one-track mind with the puck on his stick, and shoots from wherever he happens to be. Strome likes to patiently set up shop in the offensive zone and work the play from there, and him and Virtanen never seemed to be in rhythm. Virtanen is probably better suited to an energy line role on this team.

- Beauvillier deserves more ice time than he's been given, but inexplicably hasn't appeared to earned Lowry's trust yet.

- Stephens, Crouse and Chartier had good games today. Crouse was especially noticeable.

- No real observations on the defence. I like Hickey a lot, as well as Hicketts. I thought Sanheim played well today. McKeown shouldn't see much ice as we move along.

I'd like to see the following forward group against the Swiss tomorrow:

Perlini - Point - Marner
Beauvillier - Strome - Konecny
Crouse - Stephens - Virtanen
Chartier - Barzal - Gauthier
Quenneville

While I thought Perlini was good today, I'd like to see his size, speed and forechecking ability as complimentary to the Point-Marner combination. He couldn't capitalize on some prime scoring chances today, but is doing the right things.

Beauvillier and Konecny both have better offensive instincts than Virtanen and have skillsets that should compliment Strome's nicely.

It's a shame Barzal and Gauthier ended up on the 4th line, but Lowry seems committed to Barzal at C and so far they are still seeing a good amount of ES and PP ice time.

Very good points. I like your line-up too. I think Beauvillier and Konecny had a nice game together when playing against the CIS all-star.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I remember the Jensen pick. Seemed like a big kid with lots of potential but it kind of fizzled out that's for sure.

We don't like to talk about it

 

[Addison Rae]

Virtanen is terrible as well. Can't/won't pass and zero hockey sense. Very disappointing.

He's not terrible, but he's definitely under whelming. His lack of chemistry with players is extremely concerning, seriously when's the last time this guy gelled with a linemate? He's got a good skillset and can drive the puck really well through the neutral zone but he's a poor board player, and his shot has been lacklustre since shoulder surgery. I know there's a lot of Canucks fans who still have blind faith in Virtanen but his lack of progress since shoulder surgery is extremely concerning, he was a very good player in his draft year.

 

[Peasy]

I'm actually from Canada, bud. It's called "relocation" for more money down south - quite a popular strategy by many Canadians. And why would I care ? Yotes have the best prospects in the league and will continue that trend in this seasons draft.

As for your sarcastic hyperbolic rant about size - well yeah you missed the point completely. Point is there's an unhealthy obsession with Virtanen and Marner from really frustrated fans from both Van and TO, when both have flaws; I thought this was a Team Canada thread and there's other (and better) players to talk about - not to mention the team as a whole as this is a team game.

But yeah, something something Gaudreau something something Patrick Kane something PPG trajectory something Corsi..Marner specifically has a lot of work to put in the gym and Jake...well idk how you suddenly get a brain...you could slam any prospect really. Its an annoying pissing match and neither side is winning so might as well celebrate the TEAM victory instead of having a weird focus on the aforementioned players.

Yes, because you didn't come in here and blindly bash those two players

The irony.

 

[Volica]

Pfft that academic slacker.

But yes, Marner will have to learn how to do it, which I think he will given his high hockey IQ.

It's why I don't see him possibly being cooked in the AHL for a year as necessarily a horrible thing, depending on what the Leafs plan is for the rebuild.

Leafs will have to make a call on him next year. There's really only two options.

A) See wha this kid can do at the NHL level next year. Worst case scenario is he gets really sheltered minutes and is able to focus on becoming a pro; then the year after you can decide if you want him bullying the A or playing a more meaningful role in the big show.
B) Spend another year dominating the minors. I don't see this happening, however, because you risk plateauing his learning curse beating up on 16-17 year olds; and top picks (top 4-5) tend not to spend too much time after DY + 1.

Detroit gets to do their home cooking because they A) tend to select late in drafts, where there's less pressure to get to the NHL B) draft from Europe, so they can either hide them in Sweden/Finland/Czech Republic for a season or two, then bring them to the A or bring them to the A right away.

I was happy when Calgary selected Oliver Kylington; it gave them 4 options: NHL, AHL, SEL or WHL.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

Best players: Strome, Barzal, Marner, Point, Dermott, Sanheim.

Need to improve: Virtanen, Konecny, Hicketts.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

Leafs will have to make a call on him next year. There's really only two options.

A) See wha this kid can do at the NHL level next year. Worst case scenario is he gets really sheltered minutes and is able to focus on becoming a pro; then the year after you can decide if you want him bullying the A or playing a more meaningful role in the big show.
B) Spend another year dominating the minors. I don't see this happening, however, because you risk plateauing his learning curse beating up on 16-17 year olds; and top picks (top 4-5) tend not to spend too much time after DY + 1.

Detroit gets to do their home cooking because they A) tend to select late in drafts, where there's less pressure to get to the NHL B) draft from Europe, so they can either hide them in Sweden/Finland/Czech Republic for a season or two, then bring them to the A or bring them to the A right away.

I was happy when Calgary selected Oliver Kylington; it gave them 4 options: NHL, AHL, SEL or WHL.

I don't think you need to worry about Kylington in the NHL next year.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Leafs will have to make a call on him next year. There's really only two options.

A) See wha this kid can do at the NHL level next year. Worst case scenario is he gets really sheltered minutes and is able to focus on becoming a pro; then the year after you can decide if you want him bullying the A or playing a more meaningful role in the big show.
B) Spend another year dominating the minors. I don't see this happening, however, because you risk plateauing his learning curse beating up on 16-17 year olds; and top picks (top 4-5) tend not to spend too much time after DY + 1.

Detroit gets to do their home cooking because they A) tend to select late in drafts, where there's less pressure to get to the NHL B) draft from Europe, so they can either hide them in Sweden/Finland/Czech Republic for a season or two, then bring them to the A or bring them to the A right away.

I was happy when Calgary selected Oliver Kylington; it gave them 4 options: NHL, AHL, SEL or WHL.

Oh I know about the AHL rule, sorry I didn't make myself clear on it.

Leafs could get creative and send him to the SEL if he's open to it but I see it as a least likely situation

 

[JackSlater]

A nice offensive effort today, but its tough getting a read on the line combinations against such weak competition. A few things are clear to me, though:

- Quenneville should not be in the top-6. Full stop.

- Marner and Point seem like a perfect match together and I thought both guys had great games today.

- Barzal and Konecny were both electric today. Both guys created opportunities every time they were on the ice, and Konecny is such a dynamic skater and puck handler that he seems a bit wasted on the third line.

- Virtanen had a relatively poor game today and didn't seem to mesh well with Strome. Based on what I've seen over the course of these two games I don't like Virtanen in a scoring role on this team; similar to last year he has a one-track mind with the puck on his stick, and shoots from wherever he happens to be. Strome likes to patiently set up shop in the offensive zone and work the play from there, and him and Virtanen never seemed to be in rhythm. Virtanen is probably better suited to an energy line role on this team.

- Beauvillier deserves more ice time than he's been given, but inexplicably hasn't appeared to earned Lowry's trust yet.

- Stephens, Crouse and Chartier had good games today. Crouse was especially noticeable.

- No real observations on the defence. I like Hickey a lot, as well as Hicketts. I thought Sanheim played well today. McKeown shouldn't see much ice as we move along.

I'd like to see the following forward group against the Swiss tomorrow:

Perlini - Point - Marner
Beauvillier - Strome - Konecny
Crouse - Stephens - Virtanen
Chartier - Barzal - Gauthier
Quenneville

While I thought Perlini was good today, I'd like to see his size, speed and forechecking ability as complimentary to the Point-Marner combination. He couldn't capitalize on some prime scoring chances today, but is doing the right things.

Beauvillier and Konecny both have better offensive instincts than Virtanen and have skillsets that should compliment Strome's nicely.

It's a shame Barzal and Gauthier ended up on the 4th line, but Lowry seems committed to Barzal at C and so far they are still seeing a good amount of ES and PP ice time.

I think shaking up the lineup depends on how risk averse Lowry is. The Stephens line is effective with Konecny as the main engine in the offensive zone. Virtanen is a good fit for an energy line, but that line as a whole might suffer if Konecny is gone. Not sure what should be done. Beauvillier clearly does need regular minutes. I wouldn't take Quenneville out of the regular rotation though (I would take Chartier out) because he is a big part of the PK.

It's difficult to figure out what to do with Virtanen. People are unhappy with him for reasons that I don't quite understand, but he is going to be important against more physical teams. He looked like a bad fit with Strome though.

I don't know what to think about Marner with Point. I didn't like Marner today, but he did produce. He's still too easy on the puck and needs to move more quickly against good teams. No one on the team has his vision or hands though. There has to be a place for him, not sure where it is.

Barzal is very good. Lowry penciling in Barzal as 13th forward earlier and Beauvillier as 13th forward now really makes me wonder.

I don't like what Lowry is doing with the last pairing. Pick two of Dermott, McKeown and Sanheim and play them regularly. I would prefer not McKeown, but it should at least be someone.

 

[Roy Baby*]

Yes, because you didn't come in here and blindly bash those two players

The irony.

To make a point, guy lmao....not a hard concept to understand at all

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Team looked fine today but... look who we were playing. I hate to see all this stupid beefing back and forth about individual players. I am going to assume Hockey Canada knows more than you and me and I will bow to their knowledge. Let's just hope we get better each game.

You shouldn't. They've demonstrated time and time again they can **** up an all-star team.

 

[Jawafa]

Virtanen - Strome - Konecny
Perlini - Point - Marner
Beauvillier - Barzal - Chartier
Crouse - Stephens - Quenville
Gauthier

That is what i would like to try. Virtanen would be on a short leash with Gauthier or Quenville ready to step in if that line struggles. Point Marner combo i wouldn't change and the Barzal line as a whole has had great chemistry so id leave that intact.

On D id like to see them utilize Hickey and Sanheim more. Hickey has looked great so far but isn't getting much opportunity and Sanheim the coaches have him roped in, it seems there not letting him play his game, and he hasnt been all effective the way they have him. You can see the talent level though. I like the Chabot - Hickets pairing, they've been steady thus far.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

You shouldn't. They've demonstrated time and time again they can **** up an all-star team.

So can everyone else. Beefing after the fact and saying, "If I had chosen the team, I would have taken...", serves no purpose.

Anyway, it just seems like the same old, same old.

 

[Peasy]

To make a point, guy lmao....not a hard concept to understand at all

So your point was to contradict yourself?

Makes sense...

You start making ridiculous remarks about Marner, making fun of his physical maturity and other things that have nothing to do with the current tournament hes playing in. Then in your next post you wish people could talk about team Canada as a whole rather than singling out players. You sure go a strange way about making a point.

 

[Striiker]

I see a lot of you seem to want Konecny higher in the lineup, and obviously as a Flyers fan Id love to see him used as much has possible, but I seriously doubt that happens. The line he's on has been consistently strong in every game so far and I can't imagine Lowry breaking them up, especially since he seems to really trust and rely on them. They're out to start every period, after every PK, after every PP, and basically can be used in any situation. They're strong defensively and Konecny adds a lot of offensive skill and speed, without him they're not as balanced.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

I think shaking up the lineup depends on how risk averse Lowry is. The Stephens line is effective with Konecny as the main engine in the offensive zone. Virtanen is a good fit for an energy line, but that line as a whole might suffer if Konecny is gone. Not sure what should be done. Beauvillier clearly does need regular minutes. I wouldn't take Quenneville out of the regular rotation though (I would take Chartier out) because he is a big part of the PK.

It's difficult to figure out what to do with Virtanen. People are unhappy with him for reasons that I don't quite understand, but he is going to be important against more physical teams. He looked like a bad fit with Strome though.

I don't know what to think about Marner with Point. I didn't like Marner today, but he did produce. He's still too easy on the puck and needs to move more quickly against good teams. No one on the team has his vision or hands though. There has to be a place for him, not sure where it is.

Barzal is very good. Lowry penciling in Barzal as 13th forward earlier and Beauvillier as 13th forward now really makes me wonder.

I don't like what Lowry is doing with the last pairing. Pick two of Dermott, McKeown and Sanheim and play them regularly. I would prefer not McKeown, but it should at least be someone.

Lol you don't think Marner is quick? He probably the quickest player on the team, and the hardest to take the puck from (maybe Strome).

 

[Wonderfulmitch]

Lol you don't think Marner is quick? He probably the quickest player on the team, and the hardest to take the puck from (maybe Strome).

Yup. Marner is the best skater and best dangler on the team. The defense worries me a bit, there isn't anyone to be afraid of or that "wows" you. Hicketts seemed to have a down game but he really plays his heart out. I wasn't terribly impressed with Sanheim, last game or this game.

 

[PWJunior]

Yup. Marner is the best skater and best dangler on the team. The defense worries me a bit, there isn't anyone to be afraid of or that "wows" you. Hicketts seemed to have a down game but he really plays his heart out. I wasn't terribly impressed with Sanheim, last game or this game.

Barzal is a superior skater to Marner. I think Konecny as well.

Agreed that this defense group is really underwhelming.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Team looked fine today but... look who we were playing. I hate to see all this stupid beefing back and forth about individual players. I am going to assume Hockey Canada knows more than you and me and I will bow to their knowledge. Let's just hope we get better each game.

As for our pool...

If I was a betting man, we will likely finish 3rd in our pool - with Sweden in first and the U.S. in 2nd. That is NOT what I hoped. We will likely be looking at Finland in the 1st round of the playoffs and, IF we win that, Sweden and then Russia/US. To finish first, we need to beat Sweden by 4...

Sweden is a +1
U.S. is a +1
Canada is a -2

...and that is NOT going to happen. The U.S. will be rooting for us to win in regulation on NYE.

For an easier path, we need Finland to falter and finish 3rd or 4th - 2nd would be the worst case scenario for us. Anyway, our loss on Boxing Day has made our path painfully difficult but we have no one to blame but ourselves. Pride be damned, if it makes our path easier, throw the game on NYE.

If my math/thinking/logic is incorrect, feel free to correct me.

We need to beat Sweden by 3 to out right win the tie breaker but if we beat them by 2 we would be tied in goal differental and would go to the next tie breaker which is goals scored and right now Sweden has one more goal scored then Canada so basically need to hope for Sweden having a low scoring game against Denmark and Canada lighting up the Swiss. A lot can change in the next couple days though can never predict this tournament.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yup. Marner is the best skater and best dangler on the team. The defense worries me a bit, there isn't anyone to be afraid of or that "wows" you. Hicketts seemed to have a down game but he really plays his heart out. I wasn't terribly impressed with Sanheim, last game or this game.

Marner is a good skater, he has a high motor who relies more on shiftiness rather than what I call separation speed. If he had that separation gear, he would be the best skater on the team. But he doesn't. So saying he is the best skater on the team is a bit of a stretch.

For the rest of your post, I agree. The defence doesn't make me go wow. But I think it is good enough if the goaltending was better. This is the worry for me. Team Canada's goaltending. But if one of the tenders can get hot, who knows? Could go all the way. If none do, then it can be an early exit.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

We need to beat Sweden by 3 to out right win the tie breaker but if we beat them by 2 we would be tied in goal differental and would go to the next tie breaker which is goals scored and right now Sweden has one more goal scored then Canada so basically need to hope for Sweden having a low scoring game against Denmark and Canada lighting up the Swiss. A lot can change in the next couple days though can never predict this tournament.

Unless I miscalculated, we need to beat Sweden by 4 (or more) to win the pool, Sweden finishes 2nd and the U.S. 3rd.

If we win by 1, 2 or 3, the U.S. wins the pool and we finish 2nd, Sweden 3rd.

If Canada wins in OT or loses, Sweden finishes first, the U.S. 2nd, Canada 3rd.

Best case scenario, we don't play Finland in the Quarters.