WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[MapleLeafs9]

Anyone defending Marner's play and his performance so far is a massive homer, huge Leafs or Knights fan and can't see the reality of the situation, he has been mediocre at best so far. So what he has made nice plays a few times from the perimeter and created some chances, but he has passed up glorious chances, he looks weak on the puck and his overall speed is average. You can see this in the OHL as well, he feasts on bad teams, and just piles up PP points. Not hard to score at a insane rate when you play 2 min PP's, take minute and a half shifts and have a stacked team overall.

No one is saying Marner has been amazing this tournament and should be free of any criticism. What we are defending Marner from are the posts that are calling Marner "complete garbage" or that he should be a healthy scratch .

Marner has not been bad, setup Strome's goal to tie the game 2-2 against USA, played a great game against Denmark, didn't play well vs Switzerland, but you can argue Canada as a whole didn't play well. And like I've posted above, Marner still hasn't been on the ice for a GA in this tournament, so nobody can give him any **** for that.

It's just like people are waiting for Marner to make 1 little mistake (a failed pass, fumbling on receiving a pass, a missed shot, things that happen to ALL players all game long) so that they can harp on him in the GDT's.

The reality of the situation is that Marner has been fine no matter how much everyone wants to hate on him. He's PPG while on the 2nd line, and has not been a liability in terms of defence.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Nah he hasn't.

Take that nonsense elsewhere.

Yes, he has.

 

[Leviathan899]

Personally, I'd expect more out of the returning 19 year old player.

You don't expect more out of Marner, the kid everyone says should be playing in the AHL because he's too good for the OHL, the one many people have said is a top 3 player outside of the NHL right now? Keep shifting those goal posts.

 

[stavs*]

I guess you're the one who isn't watching.

point has been just as bad as Marner, add to the fact that he is the captain and supposed to be a leader, and he looks worse than Marner right now.

 

[Steazy Doo]

point has been just as bad as Marner, add to the fact that he is the captain and supposed to be a leader, and he looks worse than Marner right now.

Point has been much better.

 

[Steazy Doo]

I guess you didn't watch the games because Marner has been better than Point, Not Strome though.

Nope. Both have been, quite easily.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I am not here to say Marner has looked good. He really hasn't, he tries to do too much. Strome has been dangerous when given room to shoot, I like his game.

However, on the other hand - Point has actually been really bad. I don't know how many times a simple play led to a turn over and going the other way. He couldn't even take a pass, it was getting difficult to watch. Hopefully the SO goal gives him a boost. For the most part he looked uninspired and a step behind just about every play - I think he may still have something lingering, or shaking off the rust of being out for a while. To me he doesn't look like a captain material in any way.

The coach needs to coach, keep the shifts lengths down. Marner was out there for 2min shifts it seemed. He needs to be more straight forward with his plays, rather than trying one more nice, shifty, pass or deke.

 

[con310*]

Nope. Both have been, quite easily.

Wrong. Point has been the worst without question.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Hopefully the player bashing stops
No sense in it now
Nothing to gain
To your comments, this team was not picked to be physical
It was meant to be a quick skating puck possession team and one that plays a 200 foot game
The issue now is one day Perlini is first line- TSN blowing him up with big press etc and now he is the 13th forward
That is one example of how unsettled the players feel and how player confidence is affected
Can all this change to the good- we will see tomorrow
I said long before that this team could fall off the rails
This is exactly what I meant
The quarters are not do or die
Tomorrow's game is do or die
Get it together or have the bus defrosted tomorrow night

Can we still bash the coach?

 

[Steazy Doo]

I am not here to say Marner has looked good. He really hasn't, he tries to do too much. Strome has been dangerous when given room to shoot, I like his game.

However, on the other hand - Point has actually been really bad. I don't know how many times a simple play led to a turn over and going the other way. He couldn't even take a pass, it was getting difficult to watch. Hopefully the SO goal gives him a boost. For the most part he looked uninspired and a step behind just about every play - I think he may still have something lingering, or shaking off the rust of being out for a while. To me he doesn't look like a captain material in any way.

The coach needs to coach, keep the shifts lengths down. Marner was out there for 2min shifts it seemed. He needs to be more straight forward with his plays, rather than trying one more nice, shifty, pass or deke.

I've never actually said Point was good, just that he's been better then Marner, who you could apply those same examples too.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I can't say Marner's linemates have been helped much set him up for quality shots, or opening up lines and creating space for Marner to work with .. Off of the cycle and the rush. I see a lot of collapsing around Marner because of this.

 

[snipes]

This is becoming laughable. Marner is still an 18 year old kid, some kids mature at different rates, look at college football, it's not uncommon for players to go from 175 at 18 to 210 by the time they are 22-23. His body will mature in time.

Much of the criticism of Marner is warranted, his play frustrates me at times like anyone but the hyperbole here is out of hand.

Canada absolutely has the horses to win Gold in this tournament, no doubt about it. A few smarter coaching decisions, more physical play, and a few lucky bounces and I can see this team winning Gold. We can beat anyone in this tournament.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Wrong. Point has been the worst without question.

On the team? That honour goes to Perlini.

 

[Leviathan899]

I can't say Marner's linemates have been helped much set him up for quality shots, or opening up lines and creating space for Marner to work with .. Off of the cycle and the rush. I see a lot of collapsing around Marner because of this.

Sorry, but this is a cop out excuse. Something a ******** parent in Minor Midget would use to prop up their kid for being not very good and trying to bring down his linemates, cheap. I remember vividly in the USA game, Strome set Marner up perfectly in the low slot, Marner was wide open and just had to one time the puck, but he tries to make a cute play and loses the puck. Just one example but I can think of many more. Point is, blaming his linemates is garbage, IMO.

Also, having a great game vs Denmark is nothing, 99% of those kids will never play high level pro hockey, most wouldn't even be top players on a CHL team, so looking pretty and getting a couple points against them doesn't impress me. About as much value as a 4 point night against Guelph or Sudbury. Looks great, is impressive and fun to watch but doesn't mean he's a great NHL prospect. I honestly believe a ton of scouts nowadays are getting lazy and put more stock into points than people want to realize. Marner puts up 126 points in the OHL last year and goes 4th overall. But is he actually that much better than the others who went in the first round? I don't know if that is the case. And yes, I've seen him play from Major Bantam all the way up to now, so the whole, "you've never seen him play for the Knights" schtick won't fly here. I've seen him in too many OHL games where he actually doesn't play that well, but ends up with 2-3 points.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Sorry, but this is a cop out excuse. Something a ******** parent in Minor Midget would use to prop up their kid for being not very good and trying to bring down his linemates, cheap. I remember vividly in the USA game, Strome set Marner up perfectly in the low slot, Marner was wide open and just had to one time the puck, but he tries to make a cute play and loses the puck. Just one example but I can think of many more. Point is, blaming his linemates is garbage, IMO.

Also, having a great game vs Denmark is nothing, 99% of those kids will never play high level pro hockey, most wouldn't even be top players on a CHL team, so looking pretty and getting a couple points against them doesn't impress me. About as much value as a 4 point night against Guelph or Sudbury. Looks great, is impressive and fun to watch but doesn't mean he's a great NHL prospect. I honestly believe a ton of scouts nowadays are getting lazy and put more stock into points than people want to realize. Marner puts up 126 points in the OHL last year and goes 4th overall. But is he actually that much better than the others who went in the first round? I don't know if that is the case. And yes, I've seen him play from Major Bantam all the way up to now, so the whole, "you've never seen him play for the Knights" schtick won't fly here. I've seen him in too many OHL games where he actually doesn't play that well, but ends up with 2-3 points.

Wow. Alright, you're done here.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

"You guys"? I'm American. I just recognize that playing back-to-back games has a profound impact on outcomes. It's documented. In books. I recommended he read one.

I can't help if no one pointed this out earlier. It doesn't make it any less valid today that no one mentioned it yesterday, though. Again, it's not the only reason. But it's a really big one.

Just love watching the excuses poor out. The outcome of the games happened whether you like it or not. Every team deals with back-to-backs.

When Canada loses to Sweden, what will the next excuse be? That you lost to them when they get Nylander back?

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Just love watching the excuses poor out. The outcome of the games happened whether you like it or not. Every team deals with back-to-backs.

When Canada loses to Sweden, what will the next excuse be? That you lost to them when they get Nylander back?

We're in the group stage! If Canada beats Sweden tomorrow, it still won't matter. All that matters in the end is who wins the Gold Medal.

All of this CAN > USA, USA > CAN talk is garbage.

 

[stavs*]

Sorry, but this is a cop out excuse. Something a ******** parent in Minor Midget would use to prop up their kid for being not very good and trying to bring down his linemates, cheap. I remember vividly in the USA game, Strome set Marner up perfectly in the low slot, Marner was wide open and just had to one time the puck, but he tries to make a cute play and loses the puck. Just one example but I can think of many more. Point is, blaming his linemates is garbage, IMO.

Also, having a great game vs Denmark is nothing, 99% of those kids will never play high level pro hockey, most wouldn't even be top players on a CHL team, so looking pretty and getting a couple points against them doesn't impress me. About as much value as a 4 point night against Guelph or Sudbury. Looks great, is impressive and fun to watch but doesn't mean he's a great NHL prospect. I honestly believe a ton of scouts nowadays are getting lazy and put more stock into points than people want to realize. Marner puts up 126 points in the OHL last year and goes 4th overall. But is he actually that much better than the others who went in the first round? I don't know if that is the case. And yes, I've seen him play from Major Bantam all the way up to now, so the whole, "you've never seen him play for the Knights" schtick won't fly here. I've seen him in too many OHL games where he actually doesn't play that well, but ends up with 2-3 points.

lmao, so here in a post you said his skills are off the charts, and his vision like Eichel and Mcdavid, and now he's suddenly might not be a first round pick because of this tournament. Never change HF


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=102556111&postcount=230

 

[Random Forest]

Just love watching the excuses poor out. The outcome of the games happened whether you like it or not. Every team deals with back-to-backs.

When Canada loses to Sweden, what will the next excuse be? That you lost to them when they get Nylander back?

I am American. I'm not excusing ****. I hope Canada gets plastered this tournament, and I enjoyed seeing them play poorly yesterday.

But back-to-back games do significantly limit athletic performance. This really has nothing to do with Canada. Only with Switzerland. They were more rested yesterday and less rested today. They performed better yesterday and poorer today. This isn't a controversial claim and there is data to back it up.


If you're interested (though I don't suspect you are), here is a terrific book that explains this effect and many others like it in pro sports: http://www.amazon.com/Scorecasting-Hidden-Influences-Behind-Sports/dp/0307591794

 

[Jerkini]

Welcome to Toronto, Mitch. Enjoy your stay.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Anyone have any idea what time we'll have our quarterfinal at on Saturday? Not sure if I get it as I only have TSN3

 

[CanadienShark]

Wow. Alright, you're done here.

Yep, I cringed when I saw that. Marner hasn't really impressed me this tournament, but that doesn't really mean anything in the long run. He's absolutely lived up to that draft position. He was a top 5 talent before the draft, and has been a top 5 talent since. It seems as though that poster is the lazy one here.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Yep, I cringed when I saw that. Marner hasn't really impressed me this tournament, but that doesn't really mean anything in the long run. He's absolutely lived up to that draft position. He was a top 5 talent before the draft, and has been a top 5 talent since. It seems as though that poster is the lazy one here.

Especially considering a few months ago (before he was drafted by the Leafs) he said Marner had McDavid and Eichel vision, as seen in the quoted post:

lmao, so here in a post you said his skills are off the charts, and his vision like Eichel and Mcdavid, and now he's suddenly might not be a first round pick because of this tournament. Never change HF


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=102556111&postcount=230

Amazing how people will bash a team's best prospect just to fit an agenda.

 

[CanadienShark]

Especially considering a few months ago (before he was drafted by the Leafs) he said Marner had McDavid and Eichel vision, as seen in the quoted post:



Amazing how people will bash a team's best prospect just to fit an agenda.

Ouch.

Believe me, outside of representing team Canada, I don't hope for much career success for him while on the Leafs. Still though, there's no sense in shutting your eyes, plugging your ears and going "I can't see or hear it, so it's not true."

He's a great player no matter how you spin it.

 

[MMMFAN]

It's garbage all this Marner bashing. Just to keep things in perspective McDavid in his first World Juniors 2 years ago scored 1 goal and 3 assists for a total of 4 points in 7 games. Marner will far exceed that in his first WJC. In fact Marner will lead Canada in scoring by the end of the tournament. You can bank on that. Also Marner may be 18 years old but his body is like a 16 year old at best. So he's definitely at a disadvantage when playing against the best Juniors in the world. Of course he will physically mature and get much stronger. You can bank on this also and then everyone will be back on the Marner bandwagon when he's dominating in the NHL. I am so certain of this!!!