WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

i think everyone remembers the drubbing the States gave the czechs and Slovaks in 2014 Olympics, then Canada went on to dominate them in the medal round..

This.

Now, I don't think Canada is better than the States this year but scores mean nothing until they count.

Again, with a little luck, gelling and momentum, Canada can win Gold. No reason we can't. The goaltending is there. The D is there. The skill up front is there. Let's just wait and see if they find a way to gel.

This thread is going no where fast.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Marner was complete garbage yesterday.


At least Virtanen played well in the 3rd.

Marner was fine, he didn't play his best, but he had his chances, 3 shots, 1 shot off the post and made his passes. He hasn't been on the ice for a GA this whole tournament. If that is "complete garbage" to you, then it's no point trying to convince.

 

[Breakers]

Try watching the games, all Strome did was loft a shot on net at a bad angle. Marner hit the post and than prevented a goal on the same shift. An inch in, or out, for either and Marner is now god and Strome is getting flake.

Wanna talk about crazy turnovers, Marner isn't where the convo starts.

Trying to compare Strome vs Marner yesterday.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

your only response to the score differential between the two games was "US Caught them on the back end of the back to back, just like the Swiss caught us on the back end of a back to back. 'yikes' lol"

That's fair but you are also making too much out of the scores.

Like I said, this thread is going no where (today) so I am going for a walk and hoping Canada catches a break.

 

[X66]

There are mountains of evidence corroborating the effect of playing back-to-back games. It's a factor. Given the intensity of yesterday's game vs. Canada, you can bet it's an even bigger factor than it would otherwise be today also.

Is it the only reason? No, not at all. But it's a major one for sure.

Exactly.

 

[Revansky]

I'd believe the lack of offence thing if they didn't get many chances.

I also don't think anyone that watched the game would say "Hey, Canada only deserved to score 2 goals".

Still i feel like there's a spark missing in the canadian's offensive game. They play a perimeter game and wait too much before taking a shot. They don't play as hard as canadian are know to play at 1 on 1 on the boards. They lack cohesion in the offensive zone. The powerplay threat is inexistant too.

I feel like the system in the offensive zone isn't well implemented or just poorly constructed and that's why a player like Marner seems underwhelming at times.

And for the love of god, How can a team like Canada overplay players like in the Swiss game ? It's not like we're lacking good offensive players on the third line (barzal, gauthier, etc).

 

[Revansky]

Trying to compare Strome vs Marner yesterday.

All around Strome has been more impressive in the tournament but not yesterday. They both had okay game against the Swiss.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

There are mountains of evidence corroborating the effect of playing back-to-back games. It's a factor. Given the intensity of yesterday's game vs. Canada, you can bet it's an even bigger factor than it would otherwise be today also.

Is it the only reason? No, not at all. But it's a major one for sure.

Funny how Denmark playing back to back games wasn't brought up at all when Canada beat them 6-1.

If it's a close game tomorrow or Sweden loses, will it be credited to the back to back games issue? Probably not...

 

[canuck2010]

alot of people are using recency bias to make deductions about Marner and why other prospects are better than him. Meanwhile in the CHL, he has dominated against all these players for over a year and a half except Strome. Its typical HF, but I'm not worried about the kid he'll be a star. Sure he needs to put on weight and has a few holes in his game, but that's nothing babcock can't iron out of him. He'll be a solid NHL'er soon enough.

The first thing Babcock needs to teach is that you can't do that **** in the NHL. Cutting back across the ice from the outside to inside on the blue line is a way to get yourself. Head down not good either, NHL defencemen will shorten his career quite abruptly.

 

[Random Forest]

Funny how Denmark playing back to back games wasn't brought up at all when Canada beat them 6-1.

If it's a close game tomorrow or Sweden loses, will it be credited to the back to back games issue? Probably not...

I don't know what to tell you man. Read a book sometime. This stuff is well documented.

 

[stavs*]

He reminds me of Kadri.

Tons of offensive IQ. Smallish. Over-handles the puck. Not an excellent skater.

he's much better than Kadri, Kadri never cracked 100 points in the OHL even in his draft+1 year. Marner had 126 last year, and is expected to be higher this year while also playing above average defensively.

Marner's brother had a growth spurt in his late teens and is now well over 6 feet and over 200 lbs. I'm not worried about his size, he's a late bloomer and still obviously has maturing to do.

His overhandeling is partially to do with not being on game and his linemates. It could even be the coaching system. He executes amazing plays on the London Knights game after game.


His Skating is good, not the best, but its similar to RNH, he'll be fine in that department.

 

[stavs*]

The first thing Babcock needs to teach is that you can't do that **** in the NHL. Cutting back across the ice from the outside to inside on the blue line is a way to get yourself. Head down not good either, NHL defencemen will shorten his career quite abruptly.

He'll be fine, there's alot of things players are doing in these junior games that you can't do in the NHL.

 

[canuck2010]

I thought that in the Swiss game our attack inside the Swiss zone was just too slow developing. The reason you attack quickly is to talk advantage of the fact that your opponent is going backwards and is not in it's defensive position. The longer you take to set up and play for the perfect chance plays into the hands of your opponent especially in big ice hockey where you jam up the front and keep the play to the outside.

In my opinion, Canada better get a whole lot better at that and quickly, or it will be a short tournament.

 

[sxvnert]

Canadians will be lucky to get a bronze medal this year.

I blame Lowry for this.

 

[Proust*]

he's much better than Kadri, Kadri never cracked 100 points in the OHL even in his draft+1 year. Marner had 126 last year, and is expected to be higher this year while also playing above average defensively

LOL.

Kadri was a consensus top 10 draft pick, just like Marner.

Kadri put up 93 points in his post-draft year, leading the Knights in scoring. The next two highest scorers had 67 pts and 62 points.

Marner has a higher PPG in his post-draft year, but he is 3rd on his own team in scoring.

They are more than comparable as prospects.

 

[stavs*]

LOL.

Kadri was a consensus top 10 draft pick, just like Marner.

Kadri put up 93 points in his post-draft year, leading the Knights in scoring. The next two highest scorers had 67 pts and 62 points.

Marner has a higher PPG in his post-draft year, but he is 3rd on his own team in scoring.

They are more than comparable as prospects.

no they are not. Not even close.

Go try and post this in the Leafs board and see what happens. If you even watched Marner on the knights, you would know right away he is much more dynamic than Kadri off the bat, while possessing a very good 2-way game, something Kadri still doesn't have (its acceptable, but not great). Last year Marner lead the knights in points and it was not even close. This year Him, Dvorak and Tkachuk are leading the team in points and they all have relatively the same amount. Dvorak and Tkachuk have more points because they didn't need to leave early to attend the USA camp, while Marner did for team Canada.

 

[sxvnert]

no they are not. Not even close.

Go try and post this in the Leafs board and see what happens. If you even watched Marner on the knights, you would know right away he is much more dynamic than Kadri off the bat, while possessing a very good 2-way game, something Kadri still doesn't have (its acceptable, but not great). Last year Marner lead the knights in points and it was not even close. This year Him, Dvorak and Tkachuk are leading the team in points and they all have relatively the same amount. Dvorak and Tkachuk have more points because they didn't need to leave early to attend the USA camp, while Marner did for team Canada.

On the surface its easy to make that comparison (style, size) but once you watch Marner consistency you realize he wins in almost every category.

 

[carlweezer*]

Comparable prospect wise yes Marner and Kadri. Skills wise are very different.

Marner and Gagner skills wise is on point.

 

[Leviathan899]

Anyone defending Marner's play and his performance so far is a massive homer, huge Leafs or Knights fan and can't see the reality of the situation, he has been mediocre at best so far. So what he has made nice plays a few times from the perimeter and created some chances, but he has passed up glorious chances, he looks weak on the puck and his overall speed is average. You can see this in the OHL as well, he feasts on bad teams, and just piles up PP points. Not hard to score at a insane rate when you play 2 min PP's, take minute and a half shifts and have a stacked team overall.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

LOL.

Kadri was a consensus top 10 draft pick, just like Marner.

Kadri put up 93 points in his post-draft year, leading the Knights in scoring. The next two highest scorers had 67 pts and 62 points.

Marner has a higher PPG in his post-draft year, but he is 3rd on his own team in scoring.

They are more than comparable as prospects.

Marner was a consensus top 5 draft pick, not top 10, unlike Kadri.

LOL @ saying he's 3rd in scoring "on his team" like it's no big deal. He's 3rd in scoring in the entire OHL. That's how dominant he and the London Knights are right now. He's also played less games than Dvorak and Tkachuk.

 

[Blender]

Marner hasn't been good enough at the WJC, and most of the criticism of him is completely fair based on expectations, but it's a completely different thing to trash him as a prospect or use his performance here to try and claim he isn't a legitimate top prospect, because he is.

 

[con310*]

Comparable prospect wise yes Marner and Kadri. Skills wise are very different.

Marner and Gagner skills wise is on point.

Marner is more like Kane really. Just like scouts have been saying from the very start. Gagner just doesn't play the way Marner does they are very different.

 

[Plub]

I don't know what to tell you man. Read a book sometime. This stuff is well documented.

What does reading a book have to do with anything?

He's trying to be subtle and point out that yesterday no one mentioned that you guys demolished a tired worn out team. However, today most in this thread are trying to diminish the U.S.'s win by saying it is due to the swiss playing a back-to-back.

 

[Random Forest]

What does reading a book have to do with anything?

He's trying to be subtle and point out that yesterday no one mentioned that you guys demolished a tired worn out team. However, today most in this thread are trying to diminish the U.S.'s win by saying it is due to the swiss playing a back-to-back.

"You guys"? I'm American. I just recognize that playing back-to-back games has a profound impact on outcomes. It's documented. In books. I recommended he read one.

I can't help if no one pointed this out earlier. It doesn't make it any less valid today that no one mentioned it yesterday, though. Again, it's not the only reason. But it's a really big one.

 

[Leviathan899]

Strome, Barzal, Matthews, and Laine are much better...so yeah not quite

as well as Puljujarvi, Pastrnak, W and A Nylander, Tkachuk, Kempe. Even a guy like Nick Schmaltz has as much skill as Marner. Marner puts up fantasy points, but doesn't actually look impressive unless he's on the PP.