2015-2016 Roster Talk: Kings Have no Elite Players Edition

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what would we pay Schenn? Sin't LA farther from hamonic's home than New York? Considering Hamonic's cap hit I don't think these would leave enough space to sign Lucic (not sure if that was even the intent).

Everyone's allowed to dream though.

I don't know where Schenn fits in the long term, that's why I think making an addition to the top 4 D-rotation is imperative so that whoever does come in as a bottom pairing guy doesn't have to play minutes they are incapable of playing (like Ehrhoff was to start the season).

The Kings currently have three of their dmen signed beyond this season: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez. McNabb will be a RFA and Schenn, Ehrhoff and McBain will be UFAs.

If they don't bring in a top 4-5 dman in via trade, they'll surely be looking for one this summer in the UFA market.
 
Actually I did, but I guess you chose to ignore it.

If I am missing something, please point it out.

"Pay them.", or whatever you said, doesn't say much. I really don't want to ignore you.
 
I don't know where Schenn fits in the long term, that's why I think making an addition to the top 4 D-rotation is imperative so that whoever does come in as a bottom pairing guy doesn't have to play minutes they are incapable of playing (like Ehrhoff was to start the season).

The Kings currently have three of their dmen signed beyond this season: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez. McNabb will be a RFA and Schenn, Ehrhoff and McBain will be UFAs.

If they don't bring in a top 4-5 dman in via trade, they'll surely be looking for one this summer in the UFA market.

it's only 6 games, but so far sutter fancies luke. his toi/gp: 18:15. his %ofTeam SH TOI: 40.9% (6 games with 16 minor + 4 major penalties). it''s a small sample, but it's slowly turning into trust. still, playoffs should tell more about it.
 
it's only 6 games, but so far sutter fancies luke. his toi/gp: 18:15. his %ofTeam SH TOI: 40.9% (6 games with 16 minor + 4 major penalties). it''s a small sample, but it's slowly turning into trust. still, playoffs should tell more about it.

it's a small sample with LA but if you look at schenn's game it fits perfectly in a bottom 4 role in a sutter system.
 
According to Mayor, he was hinting at a possible retirement for Matt Greene. I was shocked but then I looked back at his stats and recalled all the injuries. Check below for games played next to year.

2011-12 LA 82
2012-13 LA 5
2013-14 LA 38
2014-15 LA 82
2015-16 LA 3

In the past 5 seasons, he has only stayed healthy 2x. He is also now 32 with a history of concussions.

I think if something happens with Greene, Kings will use that money for Schenn.

The thing is Greene is loved in the room and community and front office, so it would likely have to be his choice to leave or retire.
 
it's a small sample with LA but if you look at schenn's game it fits perfectly in a bottom 4 role in a sutter system.

yes, this, it's a fit. imo sutter will try to open the door, but it's not up to sutter to make it happen, and i'm not really sure how much lombardi listens to sutter lately. i hope it works, as you said, luke fits perfectly.
 
According to Mayor, he was hinting at a possible retirement for Matt Greene. I was shocked but then I looked back at his stats and recalled all the injuries. Check below for games played next to year.

2011-12 LA 82
2012-13 LA 5
2013-14 LA 38
2014-15 LA 82
2015-16 LA 3

In the past 5 seasons, he has only stayed healthy 2x. He is also now 32 with a history of concussions.

I think if something happens with Greene, Kings will use that money for Schenn.

The thing is Greene is loved in the room and community and front office, so it would likely have to be his choice to leave or retire.

why would he retire and not just go on LTIR Pronger/Horton/Savard style
 
If the cap stagnates until 2018, so will everyone else, as they're not going to stop paying RFAs/UFAs that they want, and won't have legacy contracts like Carter/Keith to offset raises to the rest of their rosters.

Either that, or they won't be competitive anyway or are full of ELCs.

This is why I think DL is being more bullish about spending everything now, as he was 'punished' for managing the cap well before since other GMs got bailed out by the compliance buyout negotiations--he's banking on something like that, expansion, or the cap going up. And he'll have a good case--he's managed our cap extremely well considering the success we've had on a vet-laden team.

And if not? **** it, our window has been open since 2012, keep going all in, it is what it is.

I think what you are missing here is that there are not a lot of teams with a large percentage of their cap space already committed to 14-17 players like the Hawks and the Kings. At least half the teams in the NHL have a lot of cap space available this off season.

This is what the cap system is all about. Good teams lose talented players to teams with available cap space.

I don't know what case Dean is supposed to make here. He has no case until the CBA can be renotiated, and that doesn't happen for several years, long after he has to get a deal done for Toffoli and Lucic if he is going to keep both of them.
 
Has anyone watched a lot of rangers games this season? Have Girardi and Staal looked as bad as rangers fans are saying? Maybe DL can pull a bad contract for bad contract trade and trade brown to them for one of those guys? They both look to be playing around 20 min per night. Girardi is a RH shot 5.5 through 20, Staal is LH 5.7 through 21.
 
Staal has been meh but Girardi went full nuclear this year. his Corsi % is the worst on his team by a country mile and hes on the ice for tons of goals against. do not want either of those guys at their respective cap hits
 
true, girardi and staal = sad ballad with a sad ending. plus rangers are a sad ballad with a sad ending. i bet my soul they will not make it into the playoffs this year. flea market open.
 
I think what you are missing here is that there are not a lot of teams with a large percentage of their cap space already committed to 14-17 players like the Hawks and the Kings. At least half the teams in the NHL have a lot of cap space available this off season.

This is what the cap system is all about. Good teams lose talented players to teams with available cap space.

I don't know what case Dean is supposed to make here. He has no case until the CBA can be renotiated, and that doesn't happen for several years, long after he has to get a deal done for Toffoli and Lucic if he is going to keep both of them.

I don't think that's lost on me, but you're ignoring the cost of replacement players altogether. I can't look at specific examples while I'm at work, but I look at it like the Martinez contract--sure, he makes 4 million, and if you trade him to shave off some salary, that's nice--but what does a 3-4D cost? er, at least 4 million.

My major point is that most of the teams that AREN'T approaching the cap ceiling either aren't competing or are playing with a lot of ELC youth--ELC youth that will be eating big contracts soon that won't be balanced out by the likes of Carter. It feels as if you're operating under a heavy assumption that every other GM is super-competent and restrained with signings and that every RFA/UFA is going to give a hometown discount. There probably won't be many more 10 million dollar contracts, but I'd argue that people aren't going to care about a cap issue, you're still going to see players sign for 7-8 this offseason regardless because the owners/GMs just can't help themselves (i.e. they're not going to 'correct' the market that the Hawks/Kings have broken or whatever one would want to call it). If the cap stagnates, you're looking at at least 2/3 of the league in cap purgatory. That's not a DL mismanagement "oh I paid a good player too much problem," it's a major league-wide problem.

Re: the make a case quote I only meant that I think DL is pushing the limits all he can at this point because he was 'punished' for not doing it before and that there at least a handful of more mismanaged teams that need the bailout more than we would.

I mean, honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult. Pick three teams for me and I'll show you their cap issue.

Has anyone watched a lot of rangers games this season? Have Girardi and Staal looked as bad as rangers fans are saying? Maybe DL can pull a bad contract for bad contract trade and trade brown to them for one of those guys? They both look to be playing around 20 min per night. Girardi is a RH shot 5.5 through 20, Staal is LH 5.7 through 21.

Girardi is hot crap and I remember getting a lot of grief for saying he was simply a Matt Greene clone that could play more minutes. No Surprise there.

Staal falling off altogether was a little more surprising but wasn't he getting injuries too? I haven't watched when he's had a bad night though so not sure. Girardi just always sucks. Girardi makes Luke Schenn look like Roman Josi.
 
I don't think that's lost on me, but you're ignoring the cost of replacement players altogether. I can't look at specific examples while I'm at work, but I look at it like the Martinez contract--sure, he makes 4 million, and if you trade him to shave off some salary, that's nice--but what does a 3-4D cost? er, at least 4 million.

My major point is that most of the teams that AREN'T approaching the cap ceiling either aren't competing or are playing with a lot of ELC youth--ELC youth that will be eating big contracts soon that won't be balanced out by the likes of Carter. It feels as if you're operating under a heavy assumption that every other GM is super-competent and restrained with signings and that every RFA/UFA is going to give a hometown discount. There probably won't be many more 10 million dollar contracts, but I'd argue that people aren't going to care about a cap issue, you're still going to see players sign for 7-8 this offseason regardless because the owners/GMs just can't help themselves (i.e. they're not going to 'correct' the market that the Hawks/Kings have broken or whatever one would want to call it). If the cap stagnates, you're looking at at least 2/3 of the league in cap purgatory. That's not a DL mismanagement "oh I paid a good player too much problem," it's a major league-wide problem.

Re: the make a case quote I only meant that I think DL is pushing the limits all he can at this point because he was 'punished' for not doing it before and that there at least a handful of more mismanaged teams that need the bailout more than we would.

Well, if you can't afford Martinez and all the rest of the guys you want to sign at $7M AAVs, then I guess you have to try and get by on the cheap at the 4D spot, or forego signing one of the $7M AAV players. That's the whole point of the salary cap.

Players will be forced to sign for less money, like Williams did with the Caps last summer.
 
Ducks pinched a lot of pennies last year, and look where that got them.

Cap space doesn't win games. Teams like the Hawks and Kings are continually shedding quality players because of cap crunches, and they're still competing.
 
Well, if you can't afford Martinez and all the rest of the guys you want to sign at $7M AAVs, then I guess you have to try and get by on the cheap at the 4D spot, or forego signing one of the $7M AAV players. That's the whole point of the salary cap.

Players will be forced to sign for less money, like Williams did with the Caps last summer.

And like McBain with us to some extent.

But that's my point--you would think the cap would artificially at least bring the middle guys' salaries down but it's not. The rich are getting richer, the poor are signing for less than a million, and all the middle sixers and 2nd pairing d-men are getting big contracts...or you lose them. I agree that something has got to give eventually, I just don't think that 'eventually' is going to happen before many more teams hit critical mass with salaries vs. the cap.

Like I said, even cherry pick if you want, but pick three teams and I'll show you a team that's either not competitive or is headed for trouble. There's only finite cap space in the league and it's running out.

Edit: and this is also where scouts and development will really earn their money, and I trust our org to do that more than most.
 
For me, the who to trade list from least descending to most...

Doughty
Kopitar
Quick
Toffoli
Muzzin
Carter
-------------
Pearson
McNabb
Schenn
Shore
Martinez
Lucic
--------------
King
Lewis
Clifford
McBain
Enroth
Ehrhoff
Nolan
Andreoff
Gaborik
Brown
Greene
Lecavalier (gone at end of season)

The top section should never move! (Core guys)
The middle section should be kept but moved only in the right deal. (Core depth)
The bottom section could move anyone and not care. (Assets)
 
My dream trade scenario, package Pearson with Brown to the Isles for Hamonic. That'll set the top 4 on the blueline for many years with Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and Hamonic. Having McNabb and Schenn as depth guys and McBain and Ehrhoff as 7-8 options would give this team the blueline depth it needs for a shot at the Cup this season.

I think Hamonic wanted a traded to western Canada, not western Hermosa Beach.:laugh:
 
With regards to the roster, I keep thinking about past comments about DL's trades like how he's playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers. I wouldn't be shocked if he already has something lined up for either Gaborik or Brown at the draft or free agency. With Brown some team will take him, there's a market out there for the captain of a two time cup winner that was instrumental in turning LA around even with his contract. I'm thinking Philly, New Jersey, or maybe the Isles?

Gaborik is a bit trickier but I still think something can get done.
worse case I think that Schennis the back up plan with the wild card of Vinny playing next year if absolutely nothing goes right with the above and he continues to do well.
 
Is it worth trading our captain in the middle of the season though? I know a lot of people don't think letters mean much, but wouldn't trading someone who brings the locker room together and contributes to the community look bad to our players and other teams? We are one the top teams in the NHL this year. Don't see who we would need immediately.
 
Pens fan here. Seeing if Tanner Pearson would be available at all? Pens are a Chris Kunitz injury away from icing 3 non-NHL LWs.
 
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