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2015-2016 Roster Talk: Kings Have no Elite Players Edition

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mrkolice said:
look, i understand it's complicated. but if we're selling silver i'd prefer to live without pearson - of course if your calculations could prove that lak can afford lucic in this case. imo that's the best case scenario.
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Pearson isn't silver, and his cap hit alone isn't enough to allow you to afford Lucic and Toffoli.
 
Fishhead said:
Expansion probably wouldn't lower the cap right away, as teams would probably pull a Winnipeg and require some kind of longer commitment. It will likely inflate it artificially initially, allowing teams to do stupid things, then stagnate or decrease.

How many markets realistically would be in the top half of revenue?

Seattle - maybe, but probably not. Can be wishy/washy about their sports up there.
KC - I can't see it happening here, already failed twice. Another Atlanta
Markham - probably the best bet, but based on CDN
Quebec City - another potentially solid place, but again based on CDN
Vegas - very risky, poor economic climate

Once the shiny new toy phase its over it's going to be another drag on the league. What would help the cap most is to contract, but we know that's not going to happen. Expansion would be boom or bust of the Kings. They could lose a big contract, but if they didn't it could worsen the cap issue.
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Doesn't matter if they require a longer commitment or not. Bottom line is unless they can produce revenue like the top 12 teams, which is around where the mid point is according to most. The cap would go down. That is because instead of taking HHR and dividing by 30 it would be by 31 or 32. And right now there are only 2 markets that even could have expansion, QC and LV. Those were the only markets that went through the process and are being considered right now.

So it all comes down to when would they start becoming part of figuring HHR? If it was right away you could almost guarantee it would lower the cap.
 
tsanuri said:
Doesn't matter if they require a longer commitment or not. Bottom line is unless they can produce revenue like the top 12 teams, which is around where the mid point is according to most. The cap would go down. That is because instead of taking HHR and dividing by 30 it would be by 31 or 32. And right now there are only 2 markets that even could have expansion, QC and LV. Those were the only markets that went through the process and are being considered right now.

So it all comes down to when would they start becoming part of figuring HHR? If it was right away you could almost guarantee it would lower the cap.
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I think the smartest place for the NHL to expand would be the greater Toronto area. Of course the Leafs would demand huge compensation from the expansion team for infringing on their territory, but it would likely be the best location to increase league wide revenue.

I don't think Quebec City is really a viable option in terms of what a franchise there would contribute to NHL HRR, but maybe I'm wrong. Willing to be convinced on that one.
 
mrkolice said:
gold = dd, kopi & quick. add some more silver then, who else should leave next to pearson to keep lucic? lucic = pearson + someone in this case.
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I dunno, you're the one that wants to keep Lucic and Toffoli, suggest some names that add up to a cap hit of around $14M combined. It's not that easy, is it?

All the while remember that this isn't the NBA. You actually need competant depth players to win a Stanley Cup, so the guys you are going to get rid of, who is going to replace them?
 
i know the cap situation is going to be tight and dicey, but for the pieces we gave up for him would really suck to only have him for a year.
 
YP44 said:
I agree but people act like we could lose him for nothing. He will be under team control still.
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I think Ron is saying that Dean won't be willing to lose Toffoli, period. I agree with Ron on that. Dean isn't going to let Toffoli get away. That's why I think Dean will try very hard to extend Toffoli's contract this summer.
 
KINGS17 said:
I think the smartest place for the NHL to expand would be the greater Toronto area. Of course the Leafs would demand huge compensation from the expansion team for infringing on their territory, but it would likely be the best location to increase league wide revenue.

I don't think Quebec City is really a viable option in terms of what a franchise there would contribute to NHL HRR, but maybe I'm wrong. Willing to be convinced on that one.
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I've argued that there is a segment of the ownership that doesn't want the cap to go up. And therefore wants to keep revenue closer to the middle. And I agree that GTA that GTA is the best place to grow revenue. It's also the most expensive market to go into. And the fact that not even one person was willing to throw the balloon in the air about expansion is telling. But they would have been looking at 500M expansion fee likely the same in a territory fee. Then there is the cost of building the new arena and everything else. So $1B to just start and that would be US not CDN. So as of today $1.43B. That would essentially buy you any team in the league and in many cases 2.
 
YP44 said:
I agree but people act like we could lose him for nothing. He will be under team control still.
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What would you be willing to lose for him?
I don't care if it hit the mark of 4 1st rounders. That wouldn't be enough unless we knew some of those would land us top 3 picks. And even then would be get what we have in him?
He's tied for 6th in the goal scoring race. And all but one of those in front of him were drafted in the first round. And 3 of them were the top 2 picks in their drafts.
 
KINGS17 said:
I dunno, you're the one that wants to keep Lucic and Toffoli, suggest some names that add up to a cap hit of around $14M combined. It's not that easy, is it?

All the while remember that this isn't the NBA. You actually need competant depth players to win a Stanley Cup, so the guys you are going to get rid of, who is going to replace them?
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just an experiment. here's my list, silver flea market to sell, in this order (gaborik and brown not included):

1. mcnabb
2. mcbain
3. pearson
4. shore
5. mersch
6. ehrhoff

wish list, in this order, to keep:
1. tt
2. looch

i know it's hard core, just trying to get to the middle point.
 
Talked to two very good clients of mine today in Toronto. They are putting all US investments on hold for the entire year and will reevaluate come 1/1/17 due to the extremely weak CAD. After plateauing in 2013, it's been a downward spiral and most believe the worst is yet to come.
 
My dream trade scenario, package Pearson with Brown to the Isles for Hamonic. That'll set the top 4 on the blueline for many years with Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and Hamonic. Having McNabb and Schenn as depth guys and McBain and Ehrhoff as 7-8 options would give this team the blueline depth it needs for a shot at the Cup this season.
 
tsanuri said:
I've argued that there is a segment of the ownership that doesn't want the cap to go up. And therefore wants to keep revenue closer to the middle. And I agree that GTA that GTA is the best place to grow revenue. It's also the most expensive market to go into. And the fact that not even one person was willing to throw the balloon in the air about expansion is telling. But they would have been looking at 500M expansion fee likely the same in a territory fee. Then there is the cost of building the new arena and everything else. So $1B to just start and that would be US not CDN. So as of today $1.43B. That would essentially buy you any team in the league and in many cases 2.
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Agree with you 100% tsanuri, it's a daunting problem for the NHL. Also agree that there is a significant segment of NHL owners that wouldn't mind at all if the cap remained the same or even went down just a touch.
 
Reclamation Project said:
Talked to two very good clients of mine today in Toronto. They are putting all US investments on hold for the entire year and will reevaluate come 1/1/17 due to the extremely weak CAD. After plateauing in 2013, it's been a downward spiral and most believe the worst is yet to come.
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Nah, really? C'mon it will all work itself out. I did pick up a small position in USO yesterday though. I can't pick a bottom worth a damn, so will dollar cost average as it goes down on that one.
 
tsanuri said:
What would you be willing to lose for him?
I don't care if it hit the mark of 4 1st rounders. That wouldn't be enough unless we knew some of those would land us top 3 picks. And even then would be get what we have in him?
He's tied for 6th in the goal scoring race. And all but one of those in front of him were drafted in the first round. And 3 of them were the top 2 picks in their drafts.
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nothing (like DL I bthink) but it would sure help ease the blow. Especially 4 firsts
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
My dream trade scenario, package Pearson with Brown to the Isles for Hamonic. That'll set the top 4 on the blueline for many years with Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and Hamonic. Having McNabb and Schenn as depth guys and McBain and Ehrhoff as 7-8 options would give this team the blueline depth it needs for a shot at the Cup this season.
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Have you run the numbers on the cap hit totals for Kopitar, Carter, Lucic, Toffoli, Quick, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, and Hamonic, say in 2017-18? How about after Doughty's next deal?

I think you will find that you will be filling out the roster with minimum salary players if the cap doesn't go up by a significant amount.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
My dream trade scenario, package Pearson with Brown to the Isles for Hamonic. That'll set the top 4 on the blueline for many years with Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and Hamonic. Having McNabb and Schenn as depth guys and McBain and Ehrhoff as 7-8 options would give this team the blueline depth it needs for a shot at the Cup this season.
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what would we pay Schenn? Sin't LA farther from hamonic's home than New York? Considering Hamonic's cap hit I don't think these would leave enough space to sign Lucic (not sure if that was even the intent).

Everyone's allowed to dream though.
 
KINGS17 said:
Have you run the numbers on the cap hit totals for Kopitar, Carter, Lucic, Toffoli, Quick, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, and Hamonic, say in 2017-18? How about after Doughty's next deal?

I think you will find that you will be filling out the roster with minimum salary players if the cap doesn't go up by a significant amount.
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If the cap stagnates until 2018, so will everyone else, as they're not going to stop paying RFAs/UFAs that they want, and won't have legacy contracts like Carter/Keith to offset raises to the rest of their rosters.

Either that, or they won't be competitive anyway or are full of ELCs.

This is why I think DL is being more bullish about spending everything now, as he was 'punished' for managing the cap well before since other GMs got bailed out by the compliance buyout negotiations--he's banking on something like that, expansion, or the cap going up. And he'll have a good case--he's managed our cap extremely well considering the success we've had on a vet-laden team.

And if not? **** it, our window has been open since 2012, keep going all in, it is what it is.
 
If you don't like cap debates stay out of player discussions. Because in the NHL now everything revolves around the cap. And if the Loonie wasn't in so much trouble there wouldn't be a cap issue. There would be a how can X team survive now. Because at that point the difference between the haves and have nots would be even bigger.
Example the revenue would likely be in the 4.7B range at least but will just use that figure.
The midpoint of the cap would then be 73.3M the floor would be 63.3M and the cap would be 84.3M. And that would likely be the minimum. It gets worse as it goes up because there is a +/-15% from the midpoint.
 
tsanuri said:
If you don't like cap debates stay out of player discussions. Because in the NHL now everything revolves around the cap. And if the Loonie wasn't in so much trouble there wouldn't be a cap issue. There would be a how can X team survive now. Because at that point the difference between the haves and have nots would be even bigger.
Example the revenue would likely be in the 4.7B range at least but will just use that figure.
The midpoint of the cap would then be 73.3M the floor would be 63.3M and the cap would be 84.3M. And that would likely be the minimum. It gets worse as it goes up because there is a +/-15% from the midpoint.
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[/sarc off] np, and with no disrespect to anyone.
 
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