2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[KingsOfCali25]

I think bringing back Lucic is going to all depend on Kempe. If he is ready for next year than Lucic won't be back. If he's not ready, I think Lucic comes back and Kempe gets until the TDL to get ready...and then at that point the Kings move Pearson to open a spot for Kempe. But one way or another...Kempe is either replacing Lucic or Pearson.

I think Lewis is gone anyway you look at it. He'll want a bigger role on the 3rd line and the Kings can't give him that. I think Schenn will be back. Clifford should be gone too but will most likely be in the press box.

Lucic/Kempe--Kopitar--Toffoli
Kempe/Pearson--Carter--Gaborik
King--Shore--Brown
Mersch--Andreoff--Nolan
Clifford

McNabb--Doughty
Muzzin--Schenn
Forbort--Martinez
Gravel, McBain

Quick
Enroth

 

[KINGS17]

I think bringing back Lucic is going to all depend on Kempe. If he is ready for next year than Lucic won't be back. If he's not ready, I think Lucic comes back and Kempe gets until the TDL to get ready...and then at that point the Kings move Pearson to open a spot for Kempe. But one way or another...Kempe is either replacing Lucic or Pearson.

I think Lewis is gone anyway you look at it. He'll want a bigger role on the 3rd line and the Kings can't give him that. I think Schenn will be back. Clifford should be gone too but will most likely be in the press box.

Lucic/Kempe--Kopitar--Toffoli
Kempe/Pearson--Carter--Gaborik
King--Shore--Brown
Mersch--Andreoff--Nolan
Clifford

McNabb--Doughty
Muzzin--Schenn
Forbort--Martinez
Gravel, McBain

Quick
Enroth

I'm not seeing how you would fit this lineup under the salary cap.

 

[KINGS17]

It still astounds me with the volume of NHL players the Kings have drafted and developed that people are worried about where depth will come from as the Kings go through more growing pains.

See, what I don't get is that all these guys that were great in the AHL were supposed to come up and make guys like Lewis, King, Nolan, Greene, etc. expendable, except none of them did it.

Shore is better than Richards or Stoll were in their last season or two, but he isn't even close to being 2012-Stoll, or 2013-Richards. If the Kings are going to contend Dean is going to have to get rid of Brown (fat chance), and replace him with a player that provides a contribution equal to that of Brown's contribution for a lot less money.

If Brown is on the roster, there is no Lucic. Even if Brown is moved, there may be no Lucic.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

I'm not seeing how you would fit this lineup under the salary cap.

Most likely can't without a small cap raise. So we better hope Kempe/Mersch steps up to fill Lucic spot.

 

[Trolfoli]

Man... All the downers aside... it isn't going to be that bad of an offseason

Lucic, pretty much if he walks he needs to be replaced with a legitimate top 6 forward. Filling that spot with Brown/Lewis takes the Kings immediately out of contention mode. It isn't even about Lucic, if Lombardi can't find someone to fill that role then Kings aren't going anywhere in the playoffs.

Kempe: Hope he develops well, but full time top 6 next year as a rookie isn't how this team really operates.

Edit: Kempe/Mersch could probably fill Brown's bot 6 role no problem... not so much top 6.

 

[KINGS17]

Man... All the downers aside... it isn't going to be that bad of an offseason

Lucic, pretty much if he walks he needs to be replaced with a legitimate top 6 forward. Filling that spot with Brown/Lewis takes the Kings immediately out of contention mode. It isn't even about Lucic, if Lombardi can't find someone to fill that role then Kings aren't going anywhere in the playoffs.

Kempe: Hope he develops well, but full time top 6 next year as a rookie isn't how this team really operates.

Edit: Kempe/Mersch could probably fill Brown's bot 6 role no problem... not so much top 6.

Actually, unless Brown is moved and some other moves are made, you can't afford to keep Lucic or sign a legit top six forward, and give Toffoli the raise he deserves the season after next.

If only Dean had a couple of million in cap space to play with...

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Actually, unless Brown is moved and some other moves are made, you can't afford to keep Lucic or sign a legit top six forward, and give Toffoli the raise he deserves the season after next.

If only Dean had a couple of million in cap space to play with...

So what do you roll with in this outcome? You always shoot ideas down but I never see a lineup from you, unless I've missed it.

Edit: not trying to challenge/attack you but just like to see what you can come up with. Just friendly, nothing personal

 

[Trolfoli]

Actually, unless Brown is moved and some other moves are made, you can't afford to keep Lucic or sign a legit top six forward, and give Toffoli the raise he deserves the season after next.

If only Dean had a couple of million in cap space to play with...

So now you're predicting the cap in 2 years? This just keeps getting better.

 

[KINGS17]

So now you're predicting the cap in 2 years? This just keeps getting better.

I don't have to predict anything. I have read articles with analysis written by U.S. and Canadian economists that have studied the NHL HRR and it's projected growth and makeup, and the impact the drop in the Canadian dollar will have on the salary cap.

I can do math. The cap will drop or be stagnant for quite some time. The Canadian TV deal is locked in for years. Every time the loonie drops, the value of that deal in U.S. dollars goes down, and HRR goes down. Wasn't that TV deal supposed to be one of the major reason HRR was going to rise and drive up the cap? Uh, yeah it was, so I won't be surprised when the cap doesn't rise or declines, because I can read.

Here is a little clue for you:

The Canadian dollar can go down and stay down for years. Rarely has the looney been on par with the U.S. dollar, which it was when HRR and the salary cap were growing by large amounts.

 

[KINGS17]

Most likely can't without a small cap raise. So we better hope Kempe/Mersch steps up to fill Lucic spot.

There are too many variables right now with the biggest one being what happens with Dustin Brown and what Dean would have to include in a package to move him.

Factor in the almost certainty that the cap will not increase next season and it's not a good off season for GMs that are already committed to 14 or 15 players next season, and are still withing $10M or so of being over the cap.

If Brown is on the roster next season, I don't see how the Kings can keep Lucic.

 

[Mike Carr]

we could keep Looch but means we lose Lewis, Schenn, Mcnabb , Ehroff and Enrtoh and replace with min 600k approx. players

looch Kopi Gaborik
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King Shore Brown
Merch Andreoff Nolan

Doughty, Muzzin , Martinez, Forbert , Greene

rest is made up of 600k
if we can get rid of Greene and Clifford for 2 x 600k players that frees up 2.9m which may enable us to keep 2 of Lewis , Schenn or Mcnabb

still have problems the next year as we will need to trade somebody out to keep Toff and Pearson

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Actually, unless Brown is moved and some other moves are made, you can't afford to keep Lucic or sign a legit top six forward, and give Toffoli the raise he deserves the season after next.

If only Dean had a couple of million in cap space to play with...

You literally just said Brown was the major problem here, and now you're crapping on the Kopitar contract again?

Axe to grind, axe to grind, come in, this is K17.

 

[damacles1156]

You literally just said Brown was the major problem here, and now you're crapping on the Kopitar contract again?

Axe to grind, axe to grind, come in, this is K17.

Nothing wrong with pointing out, how the Kopitar contract at 10M AAV hampers the Kings ability to field depth in the roster. Or how pointing out Brown, will be hard to move.

It is, what it is.

How about instead of posting yet another (not adding to discussion post), you provide a counter point, or argument; of why Kopitar's contract is not going to do so, or another scenario to think of.

Couple of starter points for you:

Kempe just may be the depth the Kings need at a cheap price ETC.
Gravel may round out, and be cheap ETC.

For instance, I can see a future roster of

Kempe/Kopitar/Toffoli
Pearson/Carter/Gabo
King/Shore/Brown
Mersch/Dowd/Lewis

Doughty/McNabb
Muzzin/A-Mart
Gravel/Schenn (Can probably swap McNabb/Schenn sometimes)

Shed some salary, get younger.

 

[King'sPawn]

See, what I don't get is that all these guys that were great in the AHL were supposed to come up and make guys like Lewis, King, Nolan, Greene, etc. expendable, except none of them did it.

Shore is better than Richards or Stoll were in their last season or two, but he isn't even close to being 2012-Stoll, or 2013-Richards. If the Kings are going to contend Dean is going to have to get rid of Brown (fat chance), and replace him with a player that provides a contribution equal to that of Brown's contribution for a lot less money.

Well, your expectations are unrealistic if you expect a rookie to be better than a 10+ year veteran at the top of his game. The team is doing better, with all around contributions, not just offensive (at the moment).

And why do the Kings have to get rid of Brown to contend in the future? They're contending now with Brown. They're contending WITHOUT Stoll, Richards, and Greene. They have had a great record even with Clifford, King, etc. out of the lineup for periods of time. That doesn't make players "expendable" necessarily, but it makes the Kings an efficient organization who has had one of the best first halves in franchise history despite depth players being out/replaced.

The most important job for prospects in the organization is to execute and play their game, especially in a depth role. Shore, Mersch, Andreoff, and Forbort have all done that. Yes, they eventually need to start producing at a higher clip as they improve, but it will definitely be a lot easier to ease them into a secondary/tertiary scoring role next season as opposed to trying to ease them into a primary scoring role if, say, the Kings decided to let Kopitar walk.

If Brown is on the roster, there is no Lucic. Even if Brown is moved, there may be no Lucic.

Which would be unfortunate, because I think Lucic is a great player and has been a great fit. I don't think it's likely Lucic stays, but Lombardi has shown he can be a pretty creative GM and if he wants to keep Lucic on the Kings bad enough, he'll think of a solution.

 

[Ron*]

I don't have to predict anything. I have read articles with analysis written by U.S. and Canadian economists that have studied the NHL HRR and it's projected growth and makeup, and the impact the drop in the Canadian dollar will have on the salary cap.

I can do math. The cap will drop or be stagnant for quite some time. The Canadian TV deal is locked in for years. Every time the loonie drops, the value of that deal in U.S. dollars goes down, and HRR goes down. Wasn't that TV deal supposed to be one of the major reason HRR was going to rise and drive up the cap? Uh, yeah it was, so I won't be surprised when the cap doesn't rise or declines, because I can read.

Here is a little clue for you:

The Canadian dollar can go down and stay down for years. Rarely has the looney been on par with the U.S. dollar, which it was when HRR and the salary cap were growing by large amounts.

 

[HeadInjury]

Is Kempe still playing center in Ontario? They had moved him to center earlier in the season.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Nothing wrong with pointing out, how the Kopitar contract at 10M AAV hampers the Kings ability to field depth in the roster. Or how pointing out Brown, will be hard to move.

It is, what it is.

How about instead of posting yet another (not adding to discussion post), you provide a counter point, or argument; of why Kopitar's contract is not going to do so, or another scenario to think of.

Couple of starter points for you:

Kempe just may be the depth the Kings need at a cheap price ETC.
Gravel may round out, and be cheap ETC.

For instance, I can see a future roster of

Kempe/Kopitar/Toffoli
Pearson/Carter/Gabo
King/Shore/Brown
Mersch/Dowd/Lewis

Doughty/McNabb
Muzzin/A-Mart
Gravel/Schenn (Can probably swap McNabb/Schenn sometimes)

Shed some salary, get younger.

My point regarding Kopitar is and has always been this: on the spectrum of "cap problem" to "worth it" Kopitar leans partially right, whereas Brown is definitively left. To complain about Kopitar's fair market AAV is railroading the player for a problem he didn't create. Just because Dean financially mismanaged Richards, Gaborik, and Brown shouldn't mean that Kopitar doesn't get his payday. Sports don't work like that. You don't haggle over two million with your consistently producing, top flight #1 C when el captain is eating a hole in your cap hull on the third line. Kopitar is the same player today as he was three years ago, on pace for approx. 70 points and leading the team in scoring.

I've never said that Kopitar at 10 isn't a huge AAV. It is. It is indeed restrictive. But blaming our future cap problems on Kopitar of all players is like, well, blaming Kopitar for not winning a game single handedly. Our cap problems are a critical mass of many small, bad decisions, which is why zeroing in on the Kopitar deal doesn't make any sense. And the gulf of which Kopitar does or doesn't deserve his AAV is a trickle compared to some other bodies of water taking up needless space on this team.

By my count, there are four players who have earned every cent of their contracts playing on this team: Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, and Carter. They're also the core of the team. To split hairs over money on any of these players is pointless, because their worth to the team is foundationally intregal. This is the way the Blackhawks view their stars, and it looks like Dean feels the same.

There's also a conspiracy of silence in these talks when it comes to just how bad Brown's contract-to-production is when compared to other players. To excuse the Brown problem as, "well, he's immovable" is as much of a copout as those of us saying, "well, the market was already set on Kopitar's deal." If you're going to excuse one, it's unfair not to excuse the other. They're both undeniable realities for this hockey club (Brown's immovability; Kopitar's inevitable payday). Dean's hands are as equally tied with Kopitar's deal as they are in trying to trade Brown. To see it otherwise is naive, at best.

I also take umbrage with K17's gleefully authoritarian philosophy on building a hockey team, and finding an axe to grind with specific players, but that's irrelevant, I suppose.

I can't comment on your lineup because we still don't have enough information to extrapolate on next year's team, in my opinion.

 

[KINGS17]

Missing your point, but I am sure you can explain it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is Kempe still playing center in Ontario? They had moved him to center earlier in the season.

LW. Moving him to C was a single game thing.

 

[KINGS17]

Nothing wrong with pointing out, how the Kopitar contract at 10M AAV hampers the Kings ability to field depth in the roster. Or how pointing out Brown, will be hard to move.

It is, what it is.

How about instead of posting yet another (not adding to discussion post), you provide a counter point, or argument; of why Kopitar's contract is not going to do so, or another scenario to think of.

Couple of starter points for you:

Kempe just may be the depth the Kings need at a cheap price ETC.
Gravel may round out, and be cheap ETC.

For instance, I can see a future roster of

Kempe/Kopitar/Toffoli
Pearson/Carter/Gabo
King/Shore/Brown
Mersch/Dowd/Lewis

Doughty/McNabb
Muzzin/A-Mart
Gravel/Schenn (Can probably swap McNabb/Schenn sometimes)

Shed some salary, get younger.

I could see this as well. The Kings' status of being a cup contender would rest on the dilution of talent on other contending teams due to salary cap issues.

 

[mrkolice]

hi kings17!

 

[KINGS17]

My point regarding Kopitar is and has always been this: on the spectrum of "cap problem" to "worth it" Kopitar leans partially right, whereas Brown is definitively left. To complain about Kopitar's fair market AAV is railroading the player for a problem he didn't create. Just because Dean financially mismanaged Richards, Gaborik, and Brown shouldn't mean that Kopitar doesn't get his payday. Sports don't work like that. You don't haggle over two million with your consistently producing, top flight #1 C when el captain is eating a hole in your cap hull on the third line. Kopitar is the same player today as he was three years ago, on pace for approx. 70 points and leading the team in scoring.

I've never said that Kopitar at 10 isn't a huge AAV. It is. It is indeed restrictive. But blaming our future cap problems on Kopitar of all players is like, well, blaming Kopitar for not winning a game single handedly. Our cap problems are a critical mass of many small, bad decisions, which is why zeroing in on the Kopitar deal doesn't make any sense. And the gulf of which Kopitar does or doesn't deserve his AAV is a trickle compared to some other bodies of water taking up needless space on this team.

By my count, there are four players who have earned every cent of their contracts playing on this team: Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, and Carter. They're also the core of the team. To split hairs over money on any of these players is pointless, because their worth to the team is foundationally intregal. This is the way the Blackhawks view their stars, and it looks like Dean feels the same.

There's also a conspiracy of silence in these talks when it comes to just how bad Brown's contract-to-production is when compared to other players. To excuse the Brown problem as, "well, he's immovable" is as much of a copout as those of us saying, "well, the market was already set on Kopitar's deal." If you're going to excuse one, it's unfair not to excuse the other. They're both undeniable realities for this hockey club (Brown's immovability; Kopitar's inevitable payday). Dean's hands are as equally tied with Kopitar's deal as they are in trying to trade Brown. To see it otherwise is naive, at best.

I also take umbrage with K17's gleefully authoritarian philosophy on building a hockey team, and finding an axe to grind with specific players, but that's irrelevant, I suppose.

I can't comment on your lineup because we still don't have enough information to extrapolate on next year's team, in my opinion.

The Brown contract has been discussed extensively, so I don't know about your "conspiracy of silence" when it comes to Brown. His contract is immovable with the current state of the salary cap unless you are willing to pay a heavy penalty, in the form of what would probably be a young cheap roster player (more depth gone), in order to move him.

Kopitar was going to get a raise. He insisted on the max raise he could get, and still remain in LA. He better be ready to carry the load on a more consistent basis, because his contract does affect the depth around him. The Kings are very fortunate to have a player like Jeff Carter in the lineup that stays in top physical condition and looks like he will be able to provide a sustainable high level of play for quite some time for a modest cost.

One can tell from all of the comments in his interviews that Dean went to Kopitar and asked him to take less in order to make the probability of the Kings winning more cups higher. As a fan, should I be happy that Kopitar didn't give a little, or is too naive to hope that a player that has been inconsistent in his approach to off season preparation and has been able to perform at a high level based on his physical attributes would consider something like that? Anze Kopitar isn't going to be able to rely on being 6-4 and 230 lbs. forever.

No, Kopitar took the money. Now he better damn well get the job done almost all of the time. If you have been paying attention, I haven't zeroed in on Kopitar. His contract is the one that is being extended, so he is being discussed.

If you recall when the Doughty negotiations were ongoing and his agent wanted the $7M AAV, but only wanted to sign for 5 years, I was strongly in favor of making Doughty give up UFA years if he was going to insist on such a high AAV.

You read these posts as gleeful? I write them as fact-based. I show people a long term chart on the value of the Canadian dollar. What do I get in return from a poster like Ron? A chart on Apple, kind of ridiculous.

It's okay, you keep swooning over Kopi. I like him as a player too, just not at an AAV of $10M.

 

[KINGS17]

hi kings17!

Hey, good morning!!! Any information on how the proposed Kopitar deal affects Slovenian GDP?

 

[mrkolice]

Hey, good morning!!! Any information on how the proposed Kopitar deal affects Slovenian GDP?

nah, everyone's drunk around here from at least from 2 or 3 pm local time, celebration time and a huge party. peter prevc, anže's good friend, just won the ski flying world champion title, breaking the hill record twice in two days. it's a national sport here, +8.000 fans went to austria to witness it. take a look, great balls of fire:

 

[King'sPawn]

Kopitar was going to get a raise. He insisted on the max raise he could get, and still remain in LA. He better be ready to carry the load on a more consistent basis, because his contract does affect the depth around him. The Kings are very fortunate to have a player like Jeff Carter in the lineup that stays in top physical condition and looks like he will be able to provide a sustainable high level of play for quite some time for a modest cost.

Top scorer on the team for the past 8 years.
Top defensive forward on the team for the past 8 years.
Top scorer both years the Kings won the cup.
Most minutes of all forwards on the Kings.

Kopitar averages 3 minutes MORE PER GAME than Carter. Last year was the closest they had in average ice time of 1.5 minutes, and that's the one year they missed the playoffs. Every season aside from last, Kopitar has averaged 2 minutes more per game.

So Carter, who is in good shape, still cannot outpace Kopitar whether it's offensively or defensively, despite having lesser minutes to allow for higher peak performance and playing against secondary defense.

Since the 2012/2013 Season (I left out 11/12 since Carter was injured for most of it):
Kopitar: 67 G, 144 A, 211 pts
Carter: 81 G, 64 A, 145 pts

Your assertion that he hasn't carried the load consistently is, in my opinion, completely out of touch.