2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[Ron*]

Clifford: $1.6M

Nolan: $950,000

Lewis: $1.525

These total roughly $4M. Lucic's cap hit is currently $3M. If the cap does not go up, which is possible, and Lucic gets $7M (why would he take much less), where do we get replacements for Clifford, Nolan, and especially Lewis for basically $0?

This is the wrath of the Kopitar $10M deal, but hey give the man his money, right?

There is no Lucic beyond this season.

Let Lewis walk. Tired of him shooting into the chest of every goalie. Hands made of glacial stone.

Clifford and Nolan are expendable. Even though Nolan has been playing better of late, I would move Clifford for sure and also Nolan.

If you want to keep Lucic, the replacements have to come from the AHL. So the choice is pretty obvious: Lucic with AHL players or resign Lewis, keep Nolan and Clifford, and let Lucic walk.

I think we are better off with the former.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

The question you should be asking is, if Bowman knew then what he knows about the cap today, would he give Kane and Toews deals with $10.5M AAVs?

Do you think he'd let them walk if push comes to shove? I ask because he would've either been letting them walk last summer after a Cup win or he would've been trading them prior to that win in which case I think it is safe to say they don't win that Cup. Either way, I think answer is, yes, if push comes to shove and that would be the only way to retain them, he would absolutely still do it. Kind of a similar predicament that the Kings are in without the benefit of the hindsight analysis.

The reason it's moot is because we know now what we didn't know then. DL was prudent in waiting as long as possible to see what the Cap impact would be. but as i said before, there is another NHL team out there that would have easily have given Kopitar the same AAV and likely someone who would've matched total dollars on a 7 year deal. For the last time, the Kopitar deal isn't what will kill the depth of the team. It's Brown's deal that is severely lacking in value.

 

[Herby]

You have to be almost perfect with the cap to maintain a roster, and even then you lose guys like Sharp, just the way the rules are set-up.

Just be thankful we got huge relief from the worst contract in the NHL, but even with that, still have Brown, Greene and Richards on the books for what, $10m next season?

That is just tough to overcome, even if Green goes on LTIR.

 

[Herby]

Do you think he'd let them walk if push comes to shove? I ask because he would've either been letting them walk last summer after a Cup win or he would've been trading them prior to that win in which case I think it is safe to say they don't win that Cup. Either way, I think answer is, yes, if push comes to shove and that would be the only way to retain them, he would absolutely still do it. Kind of a similar predicament that the Kings are in without the benefit of the hindsight analysis.

The reason it's moot is because we know now what we didn't know then. DL was prudent in waiting as long as possible to see what the Cap impact would be. but as i said before, there is another NHL team out there that would have easily have given Kopitar the same AAV and likely someone who would've matched total dollars on a 7 year deal. For the last time, the Kopitar deal isn't what will kill the depth of the team. It's Brown's deal that is severely lacking in value.

Chicago and LA are in the same situation.

Dean owed it to Quick, Doughty, Carter, etc. to bring back Kopitar. If you trade Kopi you are throwing in the towel on the cup run and might as well move everyone and start over. Same thing with Chicago, if they traded one of them the cup run was over and the Hawks end up losing a ton of money because the team is insanely hot and everything is tied to Kane and Toews.

 

[KINGS17]

I agree with you 100%, but there is no sense even debating it. The framework is (apparently) done. Dean will most likely get no concessions and that sets an ugly precedent.

I know Bowman will be widely regarded for signing Kane and Toews long term, but giving out two massive contracts on an assumption is a lousy way of doing business.

Nothing we can do. I just hope the Kings can have big contributions from some of the kids in Ontario.

I don't think it's game over, but it'll definitely hamper depth. Dean had zero leverage and Kopitar and his agent knew that. Kopitar and his agent don't care about maintaining a winner. They want the most they can get. That's just the way it is whether we as fans like it or not. People saying he took a discount over the open market are also wrong. They aren't comparable scenarios.

Kopitar will talk about "staying in LA and continuing great things" and I'm sure he means it to a degree, but his agent only has one goal - maximize his clients earnings.

Another thing to take into consideration is Kopitar living in CA. I wouldn't give one discount to any CA team. Maybe in a state like Texas, Florida, or Tennessee, but not in CA.

Finally, someone said it. Kopitar and his agent only care to a certain degree about the Kings continuing to win. What is most important to him is getting paid not just a good amount, but a great amount that is perhaps beyond reason.

This run is over as soon as he declines even a little bit, and the Kings can't afford to bring in supporting players to maintain cup contention. That could happen as early as two years from now. Kopitar's lack of consistency is also a concern. As soon as he fails to show up for a single playoff round after this season, that season's playoff run will be over.

Ron keeps talking about Lucic being around next season at the expense of Clifford, Lewis, and Nolan. May be, but I doubt it, and if Lucic is signed to the ridiculous deal he wants, next up is Toffoli. I'm sure they will follow Kopitar's lead. Dean may be able to extend the window by moving Brown, but that move will cost the Kings more depth.

The bolded parts I agree with most of all.

 

[tsanuri]

I agree with you 100%, but there is no sense even debating it. The framework is (apparently) done. Dean will most likely get no concessions and that sets an ugly precedent.

I know Bowman will be widely regarded for signing Kane and Toews long term, but giving out two massive contracts on an assumption is a lousy way of doing business.

Nothing we can do. I just hope the Kings can have big contributions from some of the kids in Ontario.

I don't think it's game over, but it'll definitely hamper depth. Dean had zero leverage and Kopitar and his agent knew that. Kopitar and his agent don't care about maintaining a winner. They want the most they can get. That's just the way it is whether we as fans like it or not. People saying he took a discount over the open market are also wrong. They aren't comparable scenarios.

Kopitar will talk about "staying in LA and continuing great things" and I'm sure he means it to a degree, but his agent only has one goal - maximize his clients earnings.

Another thing to take into consideration is Kopitar living in CA. I wouldn't give one discount to any CA team. Maybe in a state like Texas, Florida, or Tennessee, but not in CA.

It was an assumption based off the track record to date. They signed those contracts in July 2014. And to that point the league wide revenue had grown at an average of about 7% since the cap went into place. The Loonie falling like it did put that out of reach.

I'm in the group that thinks the contract is high that Kopi is getting but I also accept it's likely a little less than what market value would have been. Someone would have paid him this or more. So what is the team to do? IMO they did the only thing they could have, signed him.

 

[Minor Boarding]

Brown is gone. Even the Mayor did a piece recently where he speculated as such as said Kopitar will probably wear the C.

The other name being called out is Martinez and his 4 million.

That would leave the Kings with Doughty, Muzzin, McNabb, Greene, Forbort and the possibility of re signing Schenn. That would put the Kings back to the time where they had one puck mover with one stay at home guy.

Doughty-McNabb
Muzzin-Schenn
Greene-Forbort

Or some variation of that. You lock Schenn in at a discount, Forbort is waiver eligible.

I don't like that defense one bit. Too slow and 4 players that don't move the puck that well. I highly doubt Lombardi will ice a team with 4 defensive defenders...

 

[LAKings88]

Most of these guys are locked up and in their prime. I don't believe it's one and done. Lucic is a far fetch to return but I knew that the minute LA got him.

Summer will be interesting. I highly doubt Brown or Gaborik will be moved but stranger things have happened.

Toffoli needs to be locked up. But they have a couple of years to go. Pearson too. Why stress over it today tho. This is the best team in Kings history and they will get a couple more kicks at the can.

Guys that LA needs to shed:
Greene*wonder if he will have to retire
Brown-hope and and a prayer
Lewis-love him in his role but he could price himself out of the lineup.

Next year's group: (With the impossibility of those three gone)

Pearson Kopi Toffoli
Mersch Carter Gabby
King Shore Kempe
Clifford Dowd Nolan/Andreoff


Doughty McNabb
Muzzin Schenn
Martinez Forbort
(Gravel)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think Greene might be done, but the org would do him a solid by just LTIR'ing him for the remainder of the contract. i.e. Pronger.

I LOVE Lewis and he should be a King for life but someone is going to throw 3 million + at him and we won't be able to stick that. He may 'deserve' a bigger role on another team. Shore will be his cheap replacement and at Center.

We've fortunately gotten faster as a team with guys like Pearson around so losing Lewis doesn't sting AS much since Pearson is a top-six version of Lewis and Shore can bring the d-side too.

I hate to justify losing Lewis. hate it. **** the cap world. Most underrated player on our team, even more so than King.

 

[KingsFan7824]

This run is over as soon as he declines even a little bit, and the Kings can't afford to bring in supporting players to maintain cup contention. That could happen as early as two years from now. Kopitar's lack of consistency is also a concern. As soon as he fails to show up for a single playoff round after this season, that season's playoff run will be over.

This is why I'm still amazed they won the Cup in 2014 with 0 goals from Kopitar against both the Hawks and Rangers. Now, it took a Conn Smythe performance from Williams, and one of the best goal scoring performances in at least recent history from Gaborik to cancel out that big fat 0 from Kopitar in the goal column, but they did manage to do it.

You're probably not going to win the Cup without a supporting cast, but you're probably not going to win it without the stars of the show either. The same way you're asking what's the point of the huge contracts if you can't have depth; what's the point of depth if you lose the guys that can get those big contracts?

There really aren't any good choices when it comes to this stuff. Name the Kopitar replacement, and then maybe the choice is easier. Maybe Staal would be cheaper, but is he better? He's older. Is there a young guy the Kings can trade for? Where is the cap space going?

 

[tsanuri]

Most of these guys are locked up and in their prime. I don't believe it's one and done. Lucic is a far fetch to return but I knew that the minute LA got him.

Summer will be interesting. I highly doubt Brown or Gaborik will be moved but stranger things have happened.

Toffoli needs to be locked up. But they have a couple of years to go. Pearson too. Why stress over it today tho. This is the best team in Kings history and they will get a couple more kicks at the can.

Guys that LA needs to shed:
Greene*wonder if he will have to retire
Brown-hope and and a prayer
Lewis-love him in his role but he could price himself out of the lineup.

Next year's group: (With the impossibility of those three gone)

Pearson Kopi Toffoli
Mersch Carter Gabby
King Shore Kempe
Clifford Dowd Nolan/Andreoff


Doughty McNabb
Muzzin Schenn
Martinez Forbort
(Gravel)

We don't have a couple of years on Toffoli. He can sign with us as of July 1st. Next year is the last on this deal. And we are talking about a likely 40 goal scorer for the Kings. The last time that happened was 93-94 with Luc. Even at 35 we have to go back to 06-07 and Frolov.

 

[LAKings88]

We don't have a couple of years on Toffoli. He can sign with us as of July 1st. Next year is the last on this deal. And we are talking about a likely 40 goal scorer for the Kings. The last time that happened was 93-94 with Luc. Even at 35 we have to go back to 06-07 and Frolov.

I'm not too worried honestly. Move Amart and Clifford and use that money toward Toff. If the money can't eventually be freed, trade him for a mini rebuild. Sucks but it is what it is.

 

[YP44]

We don't have a couple of years on Toffoli. He can sign with us as of July 1st. Next year is the last on this deal. And we are talking about a likely 40 goal scorer for the Kings. The last time that happened was 93-94 with Luc. Even at 35 we have to go back to 06-07 and Frolov.

wasn't kopitar supposed to get to 100 points with Gaborik too?

 

[tsanuri]

wasn't kopitar supposed to get to 100 points with Gaborik too?

Maybe you've missed it but he's already at a 39 goal pace. He was at 40 before the game on Monday. So that is not some dream of a number. It's what he has been producing at this year. He will be very close to, if not over 40, unless he gets injured.

 

[Trolfoli]

It isn't Kopitar's job to take a discount because Brown decided he's no longer capable of playing in the top 6. The Kings cap issue is caused by spending 6M on Brown, then needing to bring in Lucic to replace Brown in the top 6. That's it... the cap issue is on Brown. He needs to figure it out or be shipped off.

 

[theMajor]

Let Lewis walk. Tired of him shooting into the chest of every goalie. Hands made of glacial stone.

Clifford and Nolan are expendable. Even though Nolan has been playing better of late, I would move Clifford for sure and also Nolan.

If you want to keep Lucic, the replacements have to come from the AHL. So the choice is pretty obvious: Lucic with AHL players or resign Lewis, keep Nolan and Clifford, and let Lucic walk.

I think we are better off with the former.

I think Nolan and Clifford are expendable but I think Lewis is someone you have to re-sign. theres no readily available player to replace the void he'd leave. he brings a lot to the table

 

[Ron*]

Clifford resumes skating

http://lakingsinsider.com/2016/01/14/kopitar-expected-to-sign-contract-friday/

Expected tomorrow!!!!

I am linking this from another thread because at the bottom of the report there is a one-sentence thread about Clifford skating. Great to hear; very happy he is recovering/recovered.

 

[Mike Carr]

for next season - what is the minimum players we can have on the roster to comply with the cap ?

 

[Fishhead]

18 skaters, 2 goaltenders is the minimum roster size.

 

[YP44]

Maybe you've missed it but he's already at a 39 goal pace. He was at 40 before the game on Monday. So that is not some dream of a number. It's what he has been producing at this year. He will be very close to, if not over 40, unless he gets injured.

oh no I realize the pace he is on, but until you put up 40 goals you are not a 40 goal scorer.

 

[Winger23]

How about enjoying this season first guys? DL I'm sure it's already looking at next year and the year after.

Regardless of how untradable some of you think brown is, the same was said about other players such as Clarkson. It's fun to speculate but in the end I think Dean will figure it out without losing too much.

 

[The Night King]

oh no I realize the pace he is on, but until you put up 40 goals you are not a 40 goal scorer.

Well he said likely. He might, he might not but score 40, but we're way past the point in the season where we can just say he's on a hot steak.

 

[Ron*]

I think Nolan and Clifford are expendable but I think Lewis is someone you have to re-sign. theres no readily available player to replace the void he'd leave. he brings a lot to the table

We are going to have to deal with some pain. I would love to keep everybody but the realities of the CAP are such that it is not reality. Losing Justin Williams last season is a perfect example of that.

 

[Winger23]

We are going to have to deal with some pain. I would love to keep everybody but the realities of the CAP are such that it is not reality. Losing Justin Williams last season is a perfect example of that.

I just wonder just how much needs to be cut, but won't know that til we know the cap etc....

 

[theMajor]

We are going to have to deal with some pain. I would love to keep everybody but the realities of the CAP are such that it is not reality. Losing Justin Williams last season is a perfect example of that.

who are the hypothetical #3 and #4 C's next year if we do lose Lewis? Shore and AndyAndy? Ive been really pleased with both but I doubt Sutter trusts either of them to cement one at the #3 C role yet. I trust Dean but Im a little nervous to see what happens this off-season and next