Salary Cap: 2015 - 2016 New York Rangers Roster Building Thread Part VI

[aufheben]

I'm not trying to crap on Cam, but goalies just don't return a lot of value. Cory Schneider is one of the best goalies in the NHL, I don't see Talbot having near that value; and you still could make an argument the Devils should have kept the pick and just took Bo Horvat instead.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

IMO, #16 for Talbot is perfect compensation. No other parts involved.

Not only do I view Talbot as comparable to Schneider at the time that he was traded, but Talbot is the best goalie available on the market this year. Short supply for quality goalies, and a cheaply signed quality goalie available... I think he can easily get the #16.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Girardi for S.Reinhart imo.

You mean Sam Bennett?

 

[Joey Bones]

Lehner is 23 years old, and a former 46th overall draft pick. Also signed through 2016-17, then still an RFA.

This still doesn't mean that Talbot isn't better. Sure Lehner was drafted in the mid 2nd round. Has he contributed like a 2nd rounder? By all means no he has not. Sure, being younger and having RFA status is great and all but so does Jacob Markstrom. I think everyone here knows that Markstrom is no bueno. Lehner also has injury issues which again depletes his value.

So who would you rather have, a young goaltender with potential to be a starter, but is 3rd on the depth chart on a mediocre hockey team with injury issues and might not even become that said starter? Or an older goaltender, heading into his prime/breakout year, who has proven to be capable of starting games on a regular basis, who would most definitely be willing to sign with the team that picked him up as long as he's the starter? Hmmm....

Talbot > Lehner

Lehner has yet to prove himself. Why would a team like Edmonton, who is in need of a goaltender to start now, take the time to have Lehner show himself? They are already doing that with Brossoit and Scrivens. It makes no sense for them to be after Lehner.

 

[Cassano]

You mean Sam Bennett?

Staal for Draisaitl
Girardi for Reinhart
Klein for Bennett

2-3-4 picks of the 2014 draft.

The question is, how do we get the #1 overall?

 

[Joey Bones]

Actually, RFA vs. 1 year contract is also almost the same exact thing. Being an RFA ensures? 1 year, only. And if a player doesn't want to play there, they can elect to go to an arbitrator where they stand to make an arbitrary number based on performance... a figure that almost always favors the player since this is a capped sport and teams need to short change players to remain competitive.

So, had Cam been a RFA rather than signed on his current contract, and had he elected to go to an arbitrator, he probably would have made more than the 1.45 million that he is currently making.

If Lehner goes and does that, he gets a 1 year contract, and is free to go the following year.

So, really, not only is this status moot, but Talbot is making likely less than he would have made had he gone to an arbitrator...

^This too.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Staal for Draisaitl
Girardi for Reinhart
Klein for Bennett

2-3-4 picks of the 2014 draft.

The question is, how do we get the #1 overall?

Given that this was defenseman for forward, we'd have to reverse the roles to get Ekblad.

Zuccarello for Ekblad

 

[Joey Bones]

I'm not trying to crap on Cam, but goalies just don't return a lot of value. Cory Schneider is one of the best goalies in the NHL, I don't see Talbot having near that value; and you still could make an argument the Devils should have kept the pick and just took Bo Horvat instead.

If Schneider is one of the best, why can't he bring the Devils to the playoffs?

He really isn't anywhere near the top and IMO overrated beyond all means.

 

[Joey Bones]

IMO, #16 for Talbot is perfect compensation. No other parts involved.

Not only do I view Talbot as comparable to Schneider at the time that he was traded, but Talbot is the best goalie available on the market this year. Short supply for quality goalies, and a cheaply signed quality goalie available... I think he can easily get the #16.

Agreed that talbot for #16 is fair value, but I wouldn't say he's the best on the market. Martin Jones has been said to be on his way out of LA so I would say he's up there in the market with Talbot.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I posted a list but didn't get any responses. If this trade does happen, we should target one of:

Roy, Zboril, Chabot, Guryanov, or Konecny

 

[aufheben]

If Schneider is one of the best, why can't he bring the Devils to the playoffs?

He really isn't anywhere near the top and IMO overrated beyond all means.

'Cause the Devils suck?

 

[Joey Bones]

I posted a list but didn't get any responses. If this trade does happen, we should target one of:

Roy, Zboril, Chabot, Guryanov, or Konecny

My list is close to that....

Konecny, Connor, Zboril, Gurianov, Sprong, Roy

If Zacha or Barzal falls, they immediately become top priorities.

 

[Joey Bones]

'Cause the Devils suck?

.... Yeah, do you think they don't?

 

[Savant]

Maybe, just maybe Chiarelli simply likes Talbot better than whatever else is on the market and wants to get his guy. Is that so hard to believe?

 

[Savant]

My list is close to that....

Konecny, Connor, Zboril, Gurianov, Sprong, Roy

If Zacha or Barzal falls, they immediately become top priorities.

No love for White?

 

[Savant]

Agreed that talbot for #16 is fair value, but I wouldn't say he's the best on the market. Martin Jones has been said to be on his way out of LA so I would say he's up there in the market with Talbot.

Talbot helped Rangers to presidents trophy. Jones couldn't help the Kings to the 8 spot.

 

[Cassano]

I posted a list but didn't get any responses. If this trade does happen, we should target one of:

Roy, Zboril, Chabot, Guryanov, or Konecny

Konecny, Merkley or Svechnikov for me.

As long as it's a skilled forward that can contribute soon like a Duclair.

 

[cacchioli22]

if luckily we can get the 16th pick i would love to trade that with our 3rd for the #12 from dallas, who need defenseman, and select one of the 5 second tier of forwards either barzal, zacha, crouse, rantanen or meier. that would help tremendously upfront. if we stay at 16 id love one of roy, connor or koecny

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'm not trying to crap on Cam, but goalies just don't return a lot of value. Cory Schneider is one of the best goalies in the NHL, I don't see Talbot having near that value; and you still could make an argument the Devils should have kept the pick and just took Bo Horvat instead.

Can we view the two side by side? Not counting in Schneider's first two seasons, where he played 8 games and then 2, respectively, considering those were the least indicative of his play. He had horrible GA both of those seasons, so this actually works in Schneider's favor.

25GP-1372M-16W-4L-2OTL-2.23GA-.929S%-1SO
33GP-1833M-20W-8L-1OTL-1.96GA-.937S%-3SO
30GP-1733M-17W-9L-4OTL-2.11GA-.927S%-5SO
---
88GP-4938M-53W-21L-7OTL-2.09GA(Weighted GA)-.931S%(Weighted S%)-9SO

Talbot

21GP-1211M-12W-6L-1OTL-1.64GA-.941S%-3SO
36GP-2095M-21W-9L-4OTL-2.21GA-.926S%-5SO
--
57GP-3306M-33W-15L-5OTL-2.00GA(Weighted GA)-.932S% (Weighted S%)-8SO

So Talbot played 1 less season than Schneider, that actually mattered, in this comparison. Schneider played 30 games in that season. There is a difference of 31 GP between the two. This same differential accounts for the 1632 less minutes that Talbot has played in goal. That is more or less the amount that Talbot would play if he played one extra season for us before we were able to trade him. Talbot has won 62% of the games that he has earned a decision in. Schneider had won 64% (Note, I counted OTL as 1/2 a Win, cumulative). Difference of 2% better for Schneider, winning rate. Talbot lost in about 31% of his decisions, Schneider in 28% (Note, I counted OTL as 1/2 a Loss, cumulative). 3% more losses for Talbot. The last remaining cumulative statistic that I have included is SO. Talbot had 8 over 2 seasons while Schneider had 9. Not a make or break statistic, but it is impressive nonetheless.

In terms of weighted statistics....

Talbot had a better GA: 2.00GA vs. 2.09GA for Schneider (marginally better, as Schneider is marginally better on W and L %)

Talbot had a minuscule advantage over Schneider on weighted S%, too. 93.2% vs. Schneider's 93.1%.

I view their production as nearly identical. And I don't use the team's in front of them as an excuse, as both teams were dominant around the league, Vigneault system coached, and started with quite decent defenses in front of them.

 

[aufheben]

.... Yeah, do you think they don't?

Quick missed the playoffs too.

 

[aufheben]

Their production is identical if you ignore the sample size.

Do people seriously think Talbot is that good? Idk man, I'll just agree to disagree, and yes I think Cory Schneider is one of the best in the league.

Maybe Talbot will be a late-bloomer and do very well on a ****** team like Edmonton, but I wouldn't bet on it. If they want to trade us a nice draft pick then awesome.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If Schneider is one of the best, why can't he bring the Devils to the playoffs?

He really isn't anywhere near the top and IMO overrated beyond all means.

Schneider is excellent. He had a very good year on a very poor team. The notion that hes part of that problem is absurd.

 

[Joey Bones]

Maybe, just maybe Chiarelli simply likes Talbot better than whatever else is on the market and wants to get his guy. Is that so hard to believe?

You sir have just won the HFNYR realist poster of the day award!!

 

[Raspewtin]

When your best goal scorer is Michael Ryder, it's not a mystery why the Devils are atrocious.

 

[bobbop]

That's the Hockey Writers, the Hockey News is the hockey publication that Bob McKenzie started with in the 80s, but is kind of ass today.

The Hockey News was founded in 1947 (I think) by the NHL to promote hockey and Ken MacKenzie (no relation to Bob) was the original editor. I used to write for the Hockey News and I can tell you Ken was a jerk. He still owes me $300 (which was a lot of money in those days) Not much has changed there.