2015/16 Wishlist

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Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
The Wings need to add a significant upgrade or a d-man that provides something they truly lack. If that is not in the cards. Oh well. Just roll with what we got and get XO, Marchenko and Jensen in the mix. No sense in overpaying for more of the same.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
He was a top pairing guy in Toronto. His stats back in Nashville are horrendous, considering he dropped WAY down the chart.

I do think Franson is not at all a bad D man though. But his offensive numbers in Toronto, I do not think will be made up for in Detroit.

So I think his salary demands will be quite unreasonable. considering

Meh, some people are trying to say Green fell down the depth chart too, and is a "3rd pairing defenseman".

Bunch of garbage to me. Who cares what they were somewhere else. Last time I checked we don't have Karl Alzner, John Carlson, and Matt Niskanen, or Shea Weber, Seth Jones, and Roman Josi on this team.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,394
15,421
crease
Bunch of garbage to me. Who cares what they were somewhere else.

I'm with you. The days of seeking the magic bullet defender are over. You can't fix everything with one shot. You make small incremental upgrades piece by piece.

The current defense is Kronwall and a bunch of average dudes.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,553
934
Auburn Hills
I'm with you. The days of seeking the magic bullet defender are over. You can't fix everything with one shot. You make small incremental upgrades piece by piece.

The current defense is Kronwall and a bunch of average dudes.

Kronwall and dekeyser.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
I'm with you. The days of seeking the magic bullet defender are over. You can't fix everything with one shot. You make small incremental upgrades piece by piece.

The current defense is Kronwall and a bunch of average dudes.

Seriously? It's not that bad. If the damn offense could have capitalized in Game 7. We win that series. I'd really love to add another legit Top 6 Power Forward that can bring the ruckus. Adding an offensive D-man that can help the transition game and PP would be swell as well.
 

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
671
Meh, some people are trying to say Green fell down the depth chart too, and is a "3rd pairing defenseman".

Bunch of garbage to me. Who cares what they were somewhere else. Last time I checked we don't have Karl Alzner, John Carlson, and Matt Niskanen, or Shea Weber, Seth Jones, and Roman Josi on this team.

This, Ericsson or Quincey goes down to the third pair, And all of a sudden your Dfence improves 100%

Everyone always says "He was a third pair dman on that team, Nothing special"

Me: Right, He should be expected to do better then Josi,Jones,weber etc
 

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
671
It's consistently regarded as the worst among playoff teams. Or among the worst.

But yet, It still plays better then some teams Its odd. Bet if we had a Suter or something it's among the top 10, Probably 7 or 6 :laugh:
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
It's consistently regarded as the worst among playoff teams. Or among the worst.

In terms of offensive production, sure. Defensively the inadequacies are overstated IMO. I saw a lot of alleged GREAT defenses with All World goalies look quite porous during the playoffs.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
In terms of offensive production, sure. Defensively the inadequacies are overstated IMO. I saw a lot of alleged GREAT defenses with All World goalies look quite porous during the playoffs.

It is actually mostly just in general. Like both offensively and defensively.

A lot of our defense holding up was attributable to Babcock and his system, to be honest. The guys just aren't that talented apples-to-apples to other playoff teams.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,153
2,372
Philadelphia
Seriously? It's not that bad. If the damn offense could have capitalized in Game 7. We win that series. I'd really love to add another legit Top 6 Power Forward that can bring the ruckus. Adding an offensive D-man that can help the transition game and PP would be swell as well.

Our offense was so heavily dependent on our forwards, it's not even funny. Almost all of our zone break outs and zone entries were done by forwards. That is really bad.
 

detredWINgs

Registered User
Jan 1, 2004
17,966
0
Michigan
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Franson? Really? He is going to be a huge mistake. He's like a significantly dumber, 40+ year old Chelios. Or a Lilja with offensive flair. Or maybe even an embodiment of Sproul's ceiling if you swapped skating for physicality.

Green, on the other hand, is like a non-prime Rafalski.

Given the choice between the two, I'd take the non-prime Rafalski. The talent is simply superior. But with either choice, there are going to be significant and expensive warts.

Same with Phaneuf.
 

detredWINgs

Registered User
Jan 1, 2004
17,966
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Michigan
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Our offense was so heavily dependent on our forwards, it's not even funny. Almost all of our zone break outs and zone entries were done by forwards. That is really bad.

Yeah, when you can recall the specific moments over the course of the year when your defense had the ability to make a stretch pass, it's a problem. It shouldn't feel like catching a leprechaun or seeing a unicorn when your defense makes what used to be a two line pass.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
Franson? Really? He is going to be a huge mistake. He's like a significantly dumber, 40+ year old Chelios. Or a Lilja with offensive flair. Or maybe even an embodiment of Sproul's ceiling if you swapped skating for physicality.

Green, on the other hand, is like a non-prime Rafalski.

Given the choice between the two, I'd take the non-prime Rafalski. The talent is simply superior. But with either choice, there are going to be significant and expensive warts.

Same with Phaneuf.

That's harsh. Green playing with St. Nick would be unreal.

Green could do wonders here.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
Franson? Really? He is going to be a huge mistake. He's like a significantly dumber, 40+ year old Chelios. Or a Lilja with offensive flair. Or maybe even an embodiment of Sproul's ceiling if you swapped skating for physicality.

Green, on the other hand, is like a non-prime Rafalski.

Given the choice between the two, I'd take the non-prime Rafalski. The talent is simply superior. But with either choice, there are going to be significant and expensive warts.

Same with Phaneuf.

Ridiculous exaggeration, regarding Franson.
 

Actual Thought*

Guest
It's consistently regarded as the worst among playoff teams. Or among the worst.

That's just here. In reality land it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It could be better but many posters here consistently exaggerate the bad and totally overlook the good. They stood up quite well against the top offence in the league. Offense is a bigger issue. I would like a power forward to replace Franzen. I expect we will see a much looser and less disciplined defence under Blashill so we will see how it works out.
 

detredWINgs

Registered User
Jan 1, 2004
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Michigan
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Ridiculous exaggeration, regarding Franson.

First of all, I was a patron of late-term Chelios and prime Lilja, so there is definitely some wiggle-room there in terms of objectivity. There were a lot of folks on here who lambasted those guys; I appreciated both of those players a great deal in their latter stages with the team.

Edit: Also, I was thinking that Chelios was older when he had his seasons where he put up 35-ish points, so amend that to 35+ Chelios if it appeases your conscience.

Regardless, how much have you seen Franson? First of all, he's an atrocious skater. Second of all, the guy just exudes average intelligence when he's anywhere but with a primary assist/goal on his stick. He's actually a pretty unique guy to characterize, because he plays with a simplistic physicality in his own zone but with a much more delicate awareness in the opposition's zone. He knows what to do well north of center but, absent straightforward direction, is unawares when it comes to impromptu deviation from the norm in the defensive zone.

I should say that I don't arbitrarily hate Franson. I do like the guy and think, under certain circumstances, he's a prime addition. I just think he has (or rather will have) one of the worst "bang for your buck" contracts in the NHL. He's just not good enough in his own zone to be a high-salary guy and his defense is so body-zone based that he just can't become above average without some sort of other-worldly skating improvement.
 
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Actual Thought*

Guest
That's harsh. Green playing with St. Nick would be unreal.

Green could do wonders here.

But he will probably get 7 million. I would be shocked if Holland signs him for more than Kronner which means he probably isn't coming here. Probably just as well. He dropped of a lot after his first couple of seasons.
 

detredWINgs

Registered User
Jan 1, 2004
17,966
0
Michigan
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That's harsh. Green playing with St. Nick would be unreal.

Green could do wonders here.

In retrospect, although I can't speak for everyone, I think we Wings fans were generally really, really hard on non-prime Lidstrom, Chelios, and Rafalski. As depreciated as they were from their prime selves, they were so much better than what we have now.

Like I said to Frky, making comparisons to non-prime Chelios, Rafalski, and Lidstrom is not a huge knock. I'd take any one of those guys post-prime than what we have now.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
First of all, I was a patron of late-term Chelios and prime Lilja, so there is definitely some wiggle-room there in terms of objectivity. There were a lot of folks on here who lambasted those guys; I appreciated both of those players a great deal when many didn't.

Edit: Also, I was thinking that Chelios was older when he had his seasons where he put up 35-ish points, so amend that to 35+ Chelios if it appeases your conscience.

Regardless, how much have you seen Franson? First of all, he's an atrocious skater. Second of all, the guy just exudes average intelligence when he's anywhere but with a primary assist/goal on his stick. He's actually a pretty unique guy to characterize, because he plays with a simplistic physicality in his own zone but with a much more delicate awareness in the opposition's zone. He knows what to do well north of center but, absent straightforward direction, is unawares when it comes to impromptu deviation from the norm in the defensive zone.

I should say that I don't arbitrarily hate Franson. I do like the guy and think, under certain circumstances, he's a prime addition. I just think he has (or rather will have) one of the worst "bang for your buck" contracts in the NHL. He's just not good enough in his own zone to be a high-salary guy and his defense is so body-zone based that he just can't become above average without some sort of other-worldly skating improvement.

Well, more importantly I agree with your analysis.

I didn't like either of those comparisons at all, frankly.

He has his issues, skating is definitely one of them. But I watched a lot of him the first half of last season, and I thought he was very good. Even picked him up in fantasy and it paid off for quite awhile, til Toronto went full tank.

My thing is this. I want a top pairing guy, and if I can't have one, I don't want to pay a second pairing guy, top pairing money. So while I like Green more as a player, if my choice was say Franson for 5 x 5, or Green for 7 x 7, I would probably be inclined to pick Franson.

That's just an example, that may not be the reality. But I would like him on the 2nd pair and 2nd PP unit. I think he would fit in well in that kind of role, here.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,394
15,421
crease
My thing is this. I want a top pairing guy, and if I can't have one, I don't want to pay a second pairing guy, top pairing money. So while I like Green more as a player, if my choice was say Franson for 5 x 5, or Green for 7 x 7, I would probably be inclined to pick Franson.

The reality is the Wings would be lucky get either. Franson nor Green are going to turn this team into a contender. Nobody is. But they are better than everybody not named Kronwall. Who is 34.

The Wings can't be afraid anymore to pay defensive upgrades market value. They are all overpaid. So maybe they aren't overpaid. There's something to mull over. Luckily, last off-season Holland actually put out offers equal or greater than UFA prices for the defenders. And he was shut down by all of them. So once again he's going to swing away and hope for the best, but every one of these guys are going to have excellent options and contract offers from multiple teams.

When I look at our blueline and see fans saying they don't want any of the available options, it feels like complaining about Olivia Wilde's sharp knees.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
41,159
11,961
Ft. Myers, FL
I soured on Franson because at one point I was a big believer taking in his games in Milwaukee. I have seen him a lot and he is pretty much the exact same guy all these years later.

If he signs here I hope he becomes the player I thought he could be upon initially seeing him and thinking he had a tremendous ceiling years ago. However, I just don't believe in him. He is an inconsistent guy that teases big things and really leaves you wanting. Paying that guy big money and handing him a big role isn't something I am a fan of. I mean I know he has the skill set and some nights he has the tool box to go with the tools. But this isn't a guy I think was held back by a system or coach, he is a guy I think is holding himself back from becoming an extremely good defender.

It makes me wary of him signing and I cannot endorse it. However, if he does I will certainly cheer for him and hope that switch is flipped on a heck of a lot more.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
I soured on Franson because at one point I was a big believer taking in his games in Milwaukee. I have seen him a lot and he is pretty much the exact same guy all these years later.

If he signs here I hope he becomes the player I thought he could be upon initially seeing him and thinking he had a tremendous ceiling years ago. However, I just don't believe in him. He is an inconsistent guy that teases big things and really leaves you wanting. Paying that guy big money and handing him a big role isn't something I am a fan of. I mean I know he has the skill set and some nights he has the tool box to go with the tools. But this isn't a guy I think was held back by a system or coach, he is a guy I think is holding himself back from becoming an extremely good defender.

It makes me wary of him signing and I cannot endorse it. However, if he does I will certainly cheer for him and hope that switch is flipped on a heck of a lot more.

I get that. Even though I would welcome him, personally. That's kind of where I am at with Smith, at this point.

The reality is the Wings would be lucky get either.

Well. Touche, Bench!
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
That's just here. In reality land it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

No it's not. Craig Custance ranked our defense 14th best out of 16 playoff teams. The only reason it wasn't last is because Giordano and Letang were injured. It's clear as day.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427

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