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Tatar

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Mar 26, 2011
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rbbbaron said:
Yeah, I don't particularly care whether or not the GM (in this case Holland) is making the offer with the expectation of actually getting the guy. The point is that with so little at stake (a single 2nd rounder, and supposedly no blowback from other GMs), why the hell wouldn't someone make the offer? I would've thought the rest of the league could've seen last season that Tatar is worth a 3.4mil avg and 2nd rounder (and certainly more than the contract Holland ended up getting him to agree to). Without other GMs competing for these RFAs, the team with rights to that young player have just about all the leverage. The offer sheets introduce something closer to a market price where GMs prefer it not to be.
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I see what you're saying. Maybe there's a GM code? Guess it's never a bad idea to kick the tires
 

abbbaron

Registered User
May 6, 2015
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Tatar said:
I see what you're saying. Maybe there's a GM code? Guess it's never a bad idea to kick the tires
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I think it's pretty clear there's at least an implicit understanding amongst GMs to not interfere (and if I'm the nhlpa I'd be looking for signs of collusion). I suppose GMs that make such offers may worry about some kind of retribution, but still: if you're either an embattled GM like Doug Wilson or you've got a team that's managed the cap relatively well and doing alright in the standings (your picks aren't that high anyways) like an Anaheim, there are enough teams that will be in a cap crunch with some decent young players where you could make things interesting with a modest offer of up 3.5mil...
 

Actual Thought*

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rbbbaron said:
I think it's pretty clear there's at least an implicit understanding amongst GMs to not interfere (and if I'm the nhlpa I'd be looking for signs of collusion). I suppose GMs that make such offers may worry about some kind of retribution, but still: if you're either an embattled GM like Doug Wilson or you've got a team that's managed the cap relatively well and doing alright in the standings (your picks aren't that high anyways) like an Anaheim, there are enough teams that will be in a cap crunch with some decent young players where you could make things interesting with a modest offer of up 3.5mil...
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I think the reasons GMs are reluctant to offer sheet rfas is because the net effect is driving salaries up. There is likely very little to gain. If the offer isn't stupid the team will always match though the price is slightly higher than they were offering. In future arbitration hearings with similar players the higher price of these players is used to calculate arbitrated contracts. It raises salaries with no real benefit.
 

abbbaron

Registered User
May 6, 2015
477
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Actual Thought said:
I think the reasons GMs are reluctant to offer sheet rfas is because the net effect is driving salaries up. There is likely very little to gain. If the offer isn't stupid the team will always match though the price is slightly higher than they were offering. In future arbitration hearings with similar players the higher price of these players is used to calculate arbitrated contracts. It raises salaries with no real benefit.
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I agree-- GMs likely worry about salaries going up, and if there's a concerted effort by them to avoid the practice, to do something that anti-competitive, then the nhlpa would have a grievance. With a hard cap, there's not potential for unlimited growth, so eventually something would have to give. It would likely favor flashier young players at the expense of those middling UFAs who are pulling in oversized deals these days.

I don't think the arbiters are that daft-- if a player agrees to go to arbitration, he waives his ability to receive any further offer sheets. For any player/agent trying to argue that they should be compared to players that receive and sign offer sheets, the logical question for the arbiter to ask is why the hell then did that player not sign whatever offer sheets that were already tendered (if they even received any) or otherwise just wait for other such offers to come in instead of going to arbitration.
 

Actual Thought*

Guest
rbbbaron said:
I agree-- GMs likely worry about salaries going up, and if there's a concerted effort by them to avoid the practice, to do something that anti-competitive, then the nhlpa would have a grievance. With a hard cap, there's not potential for unlimited growth, so eventually something would have to give. It would likely favor flashier young players at the expense of those middling UFAs who are pulling in oversized deals these days.

I don't think the arbiters are that daft-- if a player agrees to go to arbitration, he waives his ability to receive any further offer sheets. For any player/agent trying to argue that they should be compared to players that receive and sign offer sheets, the logical question for the arbiter to ask is why the hell then did that player not sign whatever offer sheets that were already tendered (if they even received any) or otherwise just wait for other such offers to come in instead of going to arbitration.
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In any case you aren't going to build a championship club thru rfa offer sheets or free agency period in today's cap world. You have to build through the draft. The Wings are doing that pretty well. The bigger worry now is coaching.
 

abbbaron

Registered User
May 6, 2015
477
173
Actual Thought said:
In any case you aren't going to build a championship club thru rfa offer sheets or free agency period in today's cap world. You have to build through the draft. The Wings are doing that pretty well. The bigger worry now is coaching.
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Yeah, I don't think anyone was arguing that the road to the cup is paved with free agents. But given that Holland throws out 2nd round picks for rentals at the deadline, I'd have different ideas about how to put them to use.
 
Sami

Sami

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Oct 21, 2013
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This team still has too much Dead Weight. Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Weiss and Andersson. Someone needs to leave. But because Holland likes to play it safe, rather than take any risks, our D probably continues to do the only thing they are good at: SUCKING!
 
detredWINgs

detredWINgs

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Jan 1, 2004
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Part of me wonders if Green hasn't become a realistic target for the Wings now that Babs has left. Seems like Holland always coveted guys like that: Murphy, Schneider, Raffi, even White to a degree. All were brought in under Holland as AGM and GM. He used to speak so highly of guys who could make a good first pass and seemed to prize that even in the face of a player's defensive inconsistencies. That rhetoric had almost disappeared in recent years. It easily could've been because of the lack of available players who fit that role but part of me does think Holland realized Babcock doesn't utilize those players in a way that exploits their best attributes. The Quincey addition might've been a big wake up call in that respect. I highly doubt Holland gives up a 1st rounder for Quincey if he thinks his point production in LA/Colorado is going to completely evaporate in Detroit.
 
odin1981

odin1981

There can be only 1!
Mar 8, 2013
5,174
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Canton Mi
Been thinking about this the past couple/few days. Haven't completely fleshed my ideas out. But outside of being able to LTIR Franzen next year so we need to be 4 million below the cap to do so I want the organization to avoid the UFA class this year.

I am not against a trade to ship out some of our d and bring 1 new player in. But I would much rather avoid the class of free agents this year.
 

Roy S

Registered User
May 16, 2009
2,124
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detredWINgs said:
Part of me wonders if Green hasn't become a realistic target for the Wings now that Babs has left. Seems like Holland always coveted guys like that: Murphy, Schneider, Raffi, even White to a degree. All were brought in under Holland as AGM and GM. He used to speak so highly of guys who could make a good first pass and seemed to prize that even in the face of a player's defensive inconsistencies. That rhetoric had almost disappeared in recent years. It easily could've been because of the lack of available players who fit that role but part of me does think Holland realized Babcock doesn't utilize those players in a way that exploits their best attributes. The Quincey addition might've been a big wake up call in that respect. I highly doubt Holland gives up a 1st rounder for Quincey if he thinks his point production in LA/Colorado is going to completely evaporate in Detroit.
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Rafalski was exceptional here on the top pairing in Babcock's system. I don't think that has anything to do with it. They've missed on FA targets for those skilled players. For example, Dan Boyle took less money to go play with NY.

I think they always saw Quincey in more of a Brad Stuart-type role. He's been in a top 4ish role for close to 4 years now. I think they'd do that deal again if they had too. Its unlikely the draft pick would have reached similar productivity levels and he's a good stop gap now until Marchenko and Ouellet are ready and/or a movable asset in a trade.
 
Heaton

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,553
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Auburn Hills
detredWINgs said:
Part of me wonders if Green hasn't become a realistic target for the Wings now that Babs has left. Seems like Holland always coveted guys like that: Murphy, Schneider, Raffi, even White to a degree. All were brought in under Holland as AGM and GM. He used to speak so highly of guys who could make a good first pass and seemed to prize that even in the face of a player's defensive inconsistencies. That rhetoric had almost disappeared in recent years. It easily could've been because of the lack of available players who fit that role but part of me does think Holland realized Babcock doesn't utilize those players in a way that exploits their best attributes. The Quincey addition might've been a big wake up call in that respect. I highly doubt Holland gives up a 1st rounder for Quincey if he thinks his point production in LA/Colorado is going to completely evaporate in Detroit.
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Well, the only player you could say that for is Smith, so I don't think that's the best way to judge it. Quincey was getting 3 mins of IT on the PP in Colorado and LA at times, I realize he gets none in Detroit but I think that's more because he just isn't good at it.
 
SpookyTsuki

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
671
Heaton said:
Well, the only player you could say that for is Smith, so I don't think that's the best way to judge it. Quincey was getting 3 mins of IT on the PP in Colorado and LA at times, I realize he gets none in Detroit but I think that's more because he just isn't good at it.
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I rank the Ofence from our d like this

1. Kronwall
2. Kindl/Smith
3. Kindl/Smith
4. Danny D/Quincey
5. Danny D/Quincey

and then last but not least, fans on shots Ericsson
 
SpookyTsuki

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
671
The Nose said:
That list is absolutely embarrassing.

Edit: not your rankings... the defense.
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The point totals wouldn't be bad, But if you look at how much they give up It's pretty bad

Kindl would have 30 points, Same as DD, But he isn't good in his own zone
Smith would probably have 30 points as well, But who really knows with him

Danny D and Kronner did good, 30 and 40 points, Can keep the puck out of the net.

Ericsson is just flat out bad. He didnt even get 15 points I think and he is not a complete shut down player far from it. The powerplay wouldnt help him, He can't shoot and he can barely pass

Quincey would get 20 with powerplay time, Maybe 25, Hes ok in his own zone.
 
Frk It

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,681
15,427
Burmistrov is coming back to the NHL, it seems. Would love to pull off a trade for that kid.
 
Retire91

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
6,268
1,711
The Nose said:
Burmistrov wasn't very good in the KHL, I doubt he'll be any better back in NA.
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If I remember right Winnipeg still owns his rights, I think he would techincally come in as an RFA with WPG owning the rights. I thought wings should have made a play for him when the grumblings started. Most of the leauge new that situation wasn't working out and through he would have been a good fit and probably aquired for peanuts.

Frk It said:
What ever happened to that Fedor Malykhin dude we were linked to a year or 2 ago.
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I don't think he intends to come over
 
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