WJC: 2015 — Sweden Roster Talk

[jfc64]

Let next year's team be big and physical so we can beat Russia. Rasmus Andersson, Ollas etc. Andersson is perhaps what we were missing this year. Physical puck fighter, big and with skills.

 

[ulvvf]

I think it depends on how you define bust. He probably won't be an impact NHL player. Going back to 2006-07, here's how many players from each team have gone on to become regular, nevermind prominent, NHL:ers:

2007: 5 (including Jhonas Enroth, who played three games. Best career to date: Niklas Hjalmarsson or Nicklas Bäckström.)
2008: 6 (including Joakim Andersson, but not Magnus Pääjärvi. Best career to date: Victor Hedman.)
2009: 7 (charitably including both Tim Erixon and David Rundblad. Best career to date: Erik Karlsson.)
2010: 9 (including the Chicago twins, Adam Larsson and Jacob Josefson. Again, Erik Karlsson is the standout, with an honourable mention to Oliver Ekman Larsson.)
2011: 7 (including Rickard Rakell and John Klingberg. Best career to date: Gabriel Landeskog.)

Realistically (and statistically), there's perhaps a handful of players on this year's team who'll go on to carve out respectable NHL careers, and another handful who'll get a few games, or a season or two, and then return to Europe.

If you count in all the 96 and 97 I think a lot will have a really good carrer, this is after all by far the best swedish U20 ever on paper, and it is in the same time one of the younger team we have had, so it should be more then from the other generations.

 

[VictorLustig]

If you count in all the 96 and 97 I think a lot will have a really good carrer, this is after all by far the best swedish U20 ever on paper, and it is in the same time one of the younger team we have had, so it should be more then from the other generations.

It's hilarious that you keep saying this. Everyone who actually watched these players could tell you it was a weak team, next year won't be super strong either.

 

[geoo9]

guys y must change your coach. he is idiotic compared with the previous which was a great coach

 

[TheTwelfth]

I think it depends on how you define bust. He probably won't be an impact NHL player. Going back to 2006-07, here's how many players from each team have gone on to become regular, nevermind prominent, NHL:ers:

2007: 5 (including Jhonas Enroth, who played three games. Best career to date: Niklas Hjalmarsson or Nicklas Bäckström.)
2008: 6 (including Joakim Andersson, but not Magnus Pääjärvi. Best career to date: Victor Hedman.)
2009: 7 (charitably including both Tim Erixon and David Rundblad. Best career to date: Erik Karlsson.)
2010: 9 (including the Chicago twins, Adam Larsson and Jacob Josefson. Again, Erik Karlsson is the standout, with an honourable mention to Oliver Ekman Larsson.)
2011: 7 (including Rickard Rakell and John Klingberg. Best career to date: Gabriel Landeskog.)

Realistically (and statistically), there's perhaps a handful of players on this year's team who'll go on to carve out respectable NHL careers, and another handful who'll get a few games, or a season or two, and then return to Europe.

I'm interested in how you counted
2007: 5 Enroth, Bäckström, Hjalmarsson, Hörnqvist, Berglund
2008: 6 Enroth, Berglund, Backlund, Hedman, Hagelin, Andersson
2009: 8 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, Hedman, Karlsson, Backlund, Johansson, Josefsson (nobody else with a better NHL career than Pääjärvi)
2010: 10 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, OEL, Ekholm, Larsson, Johansson, Josefsson, Krüger, Silfverberg (Erik Karlsson was not on this team)
2011: 9 Lehner, Erixon, Klingberg, Larsson, Nemeth, Järnkrok, Rakel, Landeskog, Lander

However, if you count J. Klingberg, it feels really disingenuous not to count players like Pääjärvi, Möller, Anders Nilsson and so on. Also counting Rundblad while not counting Pääjärvi seems unfair.

 

[ulvvf]

It's hilarious that you keep saying this. Everyone who actually watched these players could tell you it was a weak team, next year won't be super strong either.

I have watch them, so obviously not everyone, so it is hilarious that you can say such a thing that you can never back up. Can we keep this discussion on a little higher level, thank you.

I said on paper before the tournament this is the best team ever, not that is was the best team ever. But you are saying that stats are not interesting at all? Will remember that.

 

[TheTwelfth]

I have watch them, so obviously not everyone, so it is hilarious that you can say such a thing that you can never back up. Can we keep this discussion on a little higher level, thank you.

I said on paper before the tournament this is the best team ever, not that is was the best team ever. But you are saying that stats are not interesting at all? Will remember that.

You have to account for the changes in the SEL/SHL. The SHL is much more a developmental league than the SEL was. You no longer see (as many) expensive Finnish/Czech players in the league. Instead, you see junior players playing big minutes on more teams.

When Skellefteå lost 3 defenders 2010 to the WJC it was a big thing. Modo losing as many forwards this year was not nearly as big of news.

In 2007, Allsvenskan was thought of as the developmental league, now it is the SHL.

 

[ulvvf]

I'm interested in how you counted
2007: 5 Enroth, Bäckström, Hjalmarsson, Hörnqvist, Berglund
2008: 6 Enroth, Berglund, Backlund, Hedman, Hagelin, Andersson
2009: 8 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, Hedman, Karlsson, Backlund, Johansson, Josefsson (nobody else with a better NHL career than Pääjärvi)
2010: 10 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, OEL, Ekholm, Larsson, Johansson, Josefsson, Krüger, Silfverberg (Erik Karlsson was not on this team)
2011: 9 Lehner, Erixon, Klingberg, Larsson, Nemeth, Järnkrok, Rakel, Landeskog, Lander

However, if you count J. Klingberg, it feels really disingenuous not to count players like Pääjärvi, Möller, Anders Nilsson and so on. Also counting Rundblad while not counting Pääjärvi seems unfair.

Also it is a little early to judge players from a 2011 team. They are still young. Just look at Söderberg, he wasnt a NHL player 2 years ago, even if he maybe could have been.

What you can notice is however that more and more become NHL players, even among those that didnt play WJC.

 

[ulvvf]

You have to account for the changes in the SEL/SHL. The SHL is much more a developmental league than the SEL was. You no longer see (as many) expensive Finnish/Czech players in the league. Instead, you see junior players playing big minutes on more teams.

When Skellefteå lost 3 defenders 2010 to the WJC it was a big thing. Modo losing as many forwards this year was not nearly as big of news.

In 2007, Allsvenskan was thought of as the developmental league, now it is the SHL.

Yes, but has it become so much more of a developmental league compare to last year, when we had 2 and the team was very hyped? Has so much happen in one year? Plus the swedish team are dominating in CHL, so it is not like SHL have lost it´s position as number one after NHL and KHL.

We see more american and canadian player now instead of finnish/czech players.

"When Skellefteå lost 3 defenders 2010 to the WJC it was a big thing. Modo losing as many forwards this year was not nearly as big of news."

You havnt notice that the WJC team has become a lot better also, and we are producing more player to NHL than before. That started to happen about 2007, and have just accelerated and we are now better than ever. Off course it was a big thing when it started since we where not use to have that many big talents then.

 

[geoo9]

nylander is a gem -

 

[VictorLustig]

I have watch them, so obviously not everyone, so it is hilarious that you can say such a thing that you can never back up. Can we keep this discussion on a little higher level, thank you.

I said on paper before the tournament this is the best team ever, not that is was the best team ever. But you are saying that stats are not interesting at all? Will remember that.

Best team on paper isn't the same thing as best stats. How many SHL impact players do we really have? I can only count one + a few PP specialists. Most of them play on weak rosters.

 

[MrStench]

I'm interested in how you counted
2007: 5 Enroth, Bäckström, Hjalmarsson, Hörnqvist, Berglund
2008: 6 Enroth, Berglund, Backlund, Hedman, Hagelin, Andersson
2009: 8 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, Hedman, Karlsson, Backlund, Johansson, Josefsson (nobody else with a better NHL career than Pääjärvi)
2010: 10 Markström, Erixon, Rundblad, OEL, Ekholm, Larsson, Johansson, Josefsson, Krüger, Silfverberg (Erik Karlsson was not on this team)
2011: 9 Lehner, Erixon, Klingberg, Larsson, Nemeth, Järnkrok, Rakel, Landeskog, Lander

However, if you count J. Klingberg, it feels really disingenuous not to count players like Pääjärvi, Möller, Anders Nilsson and so on. Also counting Rundblad while not counting Pääjärvi seems unfair.

Well, I counted hastily and without a lot of thought, obviously. How dare you assume otherwise. I should think the Karlsson blunder proves that. However, I didn't count Markström and Nemeth because they are not yet what you'd call regular NHL:ers, even if, in Nemeth's case, you could argue that's down to a very unlucky injury. Möller and Anders Nilsson (who was a backup) are both playing in Europe, and the logic on Pääjärvi - which I agree was probably a bit unfair - was that he just cleared waivers, and I'd not be surprised to see him in the KHL next year too.

 

[TheTwelfth]

Well, I counted hastily and without a lot of thought, obviously. How dare you assume otherwise. I should think the Karlsson blunder proves that. However, I didn't count Markström and Nemeth because they are not yet what you'd call regular NHL:ers, even if, in Nemeth's case, you could argue that's down to a very unlucky injury. Möller and Anders Nilsson (who was a backup) are both playing in Europe, and the logic on Pääjärvi - which I agree was probably a bit unfair - was that he just cleared waivers, and I'd not be surprised to see him in the KHL next year too.

I understand the logic on Pääjärvi, but he still may have had a better NHL career than Klingberg (will have to wait a few years on that one).

If one wants to count extra players, Eddie Läck was the third goalie in 2008 (never dressed)

 

[TheTwelfth]

Yes, but has it become so much more of a developmental league compare to last year, when we had 2 and the team was very hyped?

Well, of course not, but last year we had a few trans-Atlantic players that played big roles on the team (Burakovsky, Forsberg, Dansk and Lindholm), that could all have played big roles in SHL teams. Also, the goaltending was worse on paper (and on the ice) than last year.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

nylander is a gem -

Bah. Floater, soft, not a leader, poor decision making and just....gives you a lazy impression. From what I saw from the WJC, I was left unimpressed

 

[m4tt145]

Bah. Floater, soft, not a leader, poor decision making and just....gives you a lazy impression. From what I saw from the WJC, I was left unimpressed

Same here. Scored a couple of points against weaker teams and every leafs fan thinks he carried Sweden. I hope he is not on the roster next year.

Ollas Mattsson is a guy we could have used in this tourney.

 

[geoo9]

Bah. Floater, soft, not a leader, poor decision making and just....gives you a lazy impression. From what I saw from the WJC, I was left unimpressed

i saw both games against Swe - Nylander was only 1 player who fights for it. Each time when he receive puck 2 russian players attacking him directly. It was coachs perfomance. But even 2 our players sometimes can not take a puck for him. Even Grezky can not do something alone against good team. What you want ? Change your coach who only can make a brawls between the teams. He do not learn nothing after first game and he can not motivated them at foreigh iceboxe. Bragin Learn more after first game. Biggest stupid thing is blaming 18 yrs prospect at all media because coachs failure. It can broke him. and it does at bronze match

 

[novon04]

i saw both games against Swe - Nylander was only 1 player who fights for it. Each time when he receive puck 2 russian players attacking him directly. It was coachs perfomance. But even 2 our players sometimes can not take a puck for him. Even Grezky can not do something alone against good team. What you want ? Change your coach who only can make a brawls between the teams. He do not learn nothing after first game and he can not motivated them at foreigh iceboxe. Bragin Learn more after first game. Biggest stupid thing is blaming 18 yrs prospect at all media because coachs failure. It can broke him. and it does at bronze match

Nylander has a ton of haters.. This team would have been a joke without him. All grinders and players with no puck skills (compared to Nylander anyway). He seemed to run out of gas and became passive later in the tournament though. I have seen that before, so maybe conditioning is an issue..

 

[ulvvf]

Well, of course not, but last year we had a few trans-Atlantic players that played big roles on the team (Burakovsky, Forsberg, Dansk and Lindholm), that could all have played big roles in SHL teams. Also, the goaltending was worse on paper (and on the ice) than last year.

Yes that is correct, with Forsberg, Lindholm and Burakovsky it would maybe have been up to 5 . But this year we had JDLR (and "Hägg") from NA.

Plus some, NA players that was available like, Timashov, Andersson and Lindberg didnt even make the team, even though they have good stats and have big roles there and Timashov looks like he will break Burakovskys swedish records in the canadian junior leagues (even if he makes more assist than goals compare to Burakovsky). But this players where still not consider to be good enough to even make this team, and I do not get the feeling that they even where close. That shows deep and Grönborg is responsible for the team building.

 

[ulvvf]

Best team on paper isn't the same thing as best stats. How many SHL impact players do we really have? I can only count one + a few PP specialists. Most of them play on weak rosters.

If you produce you are a impact player at some level. Not saying stats is the whole truth in any way, but you seem to ignore it almost completly.

There are weak teams every year, so why do not this happen every year then?

Holmström in Skellefteå, is that a weak team?

Pilut, Dahlström didnt even make the team but still get fairly big minuts in their top teams in SHL and so on.

 

[ulvvf]

Nylander has a ton of haters.. This team would have been a joke without him. All grinders and players with no puck skills (compared to Nylander anyway). He seemed to run out of gas and became passive later in the tournament though. I have seen that before, so maybe conditioning is an issue..

I think it is becuase he come across as being a brat. But this kind of talent you do not see often, the sky is his limit so I hope he do not waste it.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

I think it is becuase he come across as being a brat. But this kind of talent you do not see often, the sky is his limit so I hope he do not waste it.

Why would he waste it? He didn't get this far by being lazy and I think he would love to show up his dad by becoming a better player than he ever was

 

[geoo9]

This team would have been a joke without him.

This!
I think main coach selected those players and it was his fault too.They wasnt a team at hard moments. eEveryone just looked to Nylander who always was covered by 2 or more players and All waits PP

 

[geoo9]

remember 2011 team which was best at that tourney even lossing in semis. They did not stops to play even for second and they was a team - this is most important thing which can make only coach

 

[Matte99]

Nylander had tons of unforced errors and was a black hole in his own zone. He is soft as hell and rarely comes out of a physical situation with the puck (not that he even enters them...). He comes across as extremely shy of physical play because swedish hockey has become much more physical and its hard to find players who play hockey like ballerinas. The kid can only play with the puck on his stick and even then half of his decisions are wrong and he gives the puck away more often than not. He is still young and Filip Forsberg also looked randomly useless(extremely raw) 2 years ago so who knows but at least Filip had all components of the game in him while Nylander only plays ballerina hockey.

The Swedish team this year simply lacked skill all over, 50% of all passes went behind the players and if they were near the receivers fumbled the puck 50% of the time. I have no idea how many times players fell or simply randomly caughed up the puck. Not even in games verses "poor" teams where there is plenty of space could they move the puck "tape to tape". Yes, there were glimpses of nice play but for each time they excelled there were 10 failed tries and probable a couple of mistakes that should end up in their own goal.