Good. That way he won't be screwing up another team.
No player in the NHL I would want to have less than Tee Time Thornton.
Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III
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Good. That way he won't be screwing up another team.
No player in the NHL I would want to have less than Tee Time Thornton.
I'm hopeful that a trade can be worked out and an extension that is reasonable ensues.
Personally, the way that I see Boyle's "bigger role" comment, is to gain leverage on his negotiations with the Rangers... or whichever team eventually ends up signing him.
I think that if he were to head into free agency with the aspirations and image of being just a 4th liner and penalty killer, he would be getting worse offers.
That statement, to me, just screams that he values himself as more of a 4th line guy. Really, without him saying that, there's no way that other teams offer him more money just because of his solid intangibles.
That statement should boost his offers, somewhat... as teams (like the Rangers) will be able to go into negotiations with "well, we can't offer you a larger role... but to make our offer appealing to you, we'll give you more $$ per year".
I actually think Boyle and Stralman will be locked up relatively soon.
I think D. Moore may be on the outside looking in, if that happens. Lindberg would be an identical replacement for 1/3 - 1/4 of the price.
I also think that if Stralman resigns, that Staal will no longer be a part of this team's longterm plans.
It's one or the other. You can't have your two defensive pairings nearly equivalent in salaries, just doesn't work that way.
In that event, i'd be hopeful Sather is proactive and preemptive, rather than just waiting it out till the deadline w/ Staal.
I think that if he were to head into free agency with the aspirations and image of being just a 4th liner and penalty killer, he would be getting worse offers.
That statement, to me, just screams that he values himself as more of a 4th line guy. Really, without him saying that, there's no way that other teams offer him more money just because of his solid intangibles.
That statement should boost his offers, somewhat... as teams (like the Rangers) will be able to go into negotiations with "well, we can't offer you a larger role... but to make our offer appealing to you, we'll give you more $$ per year".
I actually think Boyle and Stralman will be locked up relatively soon.
I think D. Moore may be on the outside looking in, if that happens. Lindberg would be an identical replacement for 1/3 - 1/4 of the price.
I also think that if Stralman resigns, that Staal will no longer be a part of this team's longterm plans.
It's one or the other. You can't have your two defensive pairings nearly equivalent in salaries, just doesn't work that way.
In that event, i'd be hopeful Sather is proactive and preemptive, rather than just waiting it out till the deadline w/ Staal.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
BB is not giving us any courtesies. He can get paid right now, he may love it in NY but he would be remiss to pass up a chance to a sign a 4/12 or 3/10 contract.
Pouliot will get no more than 2 years, he's bounced around inconsistently his entire career. He'll get a pay raise, somewhere around a mill.
You're looking at Pouliot at 2/5 or Boyle at 3/10, 4/12. Boyle is not signing for 2.5. I understand why you would want to do it, I love Boyle, and I think he is extremely valuable to the team. But there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for Boyle to want that contract.
Pouliot will be making less money than Boyle next year, for less years, and is a superior offensive player. One could argue Boyle is a superior player for intangible reasons, but based on skill set, on that line...Pouliot is more valuable.
For those that don't highly value Pouliot, I get it. I don't think he's priority #1. If we let him go, I won't lose sleep. But if he walks, he needs to be replaced.
Contracts I see given:
Boyle - 4/12
Stralman - 5/20
Moore - 3/4.5
Carc - 1/.650
Zucc - 5/20.75
Brass - 1/3.7 (unless arbitration, 1/4.3)
Kreider - 2/4.8 (same as Hagelin w/ a slight .15mm per yr boost for increasing cap)
J Moore - 2/2.4
Poo - 2/3.8
Whether Rangers give all these players increases or choose to let some of them go, I do not know, but those are the contracts that I see the Rangers signing them at.
That's a total of 23.1 mill (assuming Brassard's 4.3 arbitration). Everyone can be squeezed in, if they wanted.
Boyle - 4/12
Stralman - 5/20
Moore - 3/4.5
Carc - 1/.650
Zucc - 5/20.75
Brass - 1/3.7 (unless arbitration, 1/4.3)
Kreider - 2/4.8 (same as Hagelin w/ a slight .15mm per yr boost for increasing cap)
J Moore - 2/2.4
Poo - 2/3.8
Whether Rangers give all these players increases or choose to let some of them go, I do not know, but those are the contracts that I see the Rangers signing them at.
That's a total of 23.1 mill (assuming Brassard's 4.3 arbitration). Everyone can be squeezed in, if they wanted.
Boyle scored 21 goals a couple years ago. He's going to be 30 this year. He wants to be in a role that can allow him to use his offensive skills while touting his defensive prowess. More goals = more money and he wants to make money now. His average ice time last season was its lowest in three seasons. There is a lot of depth on the Rangers and I can't blame him for wanting a bigger role. If he misses the boat now, it may be tough to catch it later.
xChrisTilDeathx
Registered User
I can live with that, i just feel like you got to look at what you're paying for, and look at what that players going to settle for. Boyle at center or wing is a 3rd or 4th line player. Pouliot to me shows great upside at 26 years old and has the best front net presence on our whole team. I wish Nash would play the way Poo does. Poo's coming into his own and really starting to use all his assets, and has tremendous skill set. you could build your team around him and Krider if this all pans out the right way.
Either way, if we can get Boyle, and i hope we do, him at center with Dorset and Carbomb could we one of the best fourth lines in the league.
xChrisTilDeathx
Registered User
There are improvements that need to be made to this squad.
Ok, let's say that we try and retain as many people as we can, and we don't trade Staal for a high profile center.
Let's say that Miller gets slotted in between MSL and Hags.
There needs to be improvements somewhere. Minor ones that could be game changers.
Move Klein for a draft pick. Let's say a 2nd or 3rd. That clears 2.9 mill. In his place, sign Dan Boyle to a 2 year contract worth 8 mill, 4 mill per. Keep the rest of the team the same. Adds blue line offense. Keep Staal. Trade J. Moore and pair Boyle with someone defensively more responsible - Allen.
More size? Trade Dorsett for a pick. 4th or 5th. Sign Winnik. He's about 3 inches taller, 20-30 pounds heavier.
Rest of the lineup?
Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Miller-MSL
Poo-Brassard-Zucc
Boyle-Moore-Winnik
McD-G
Staal-Stralman
Allen-Boyle
One more go around w/ the guys. Add offense on blueline/PP w/ Dan Boyle in a limited role. Add size and grit w/ Winnik. Minor tweaks. Want another shot with the current guys? Do something like this.
I'm not in favor of remaining complacent with everyone. Somewhere, somehow, Sather and Co. need to improve this team, even if they are shrewd under the radar moves like this.
Technically, this keeps 80% of the roster the same. If you were to account Allen and Miller as current roster players from our SCF run, it would be 90% of the current roster remains the same.
Do something. People want to keep our defense? Ok. Invest more in it. Klein for Boyle swap. Want size? Ok. Winnik for Dorsett swap.
Ok, let's say that we try and retain as many people as we can, and we don't trade Staal for a high profile center.
Let's say that Miller gets slotted in between MSL and Hags.
There needs to be improvements somewhere. Minor ones that could be game changers.
Move Klein for a draft pick. Let's say a 2nd or 3rd. That clears 2.9 mill. In his place, sign Dan Boyle to a 2 year contract worth 8 mill, 4 mill per. Keep the rest of the team the same. Adds blue line offense. Keep Staal. Trade J. Moore and pair Boyle with someone defensively more responsible - Allen.
More size? Trade Dorsett for a pick. 4th or 5th. Sign Winnik. He's about 3 inches taller, 20-30 pounds heavier.
Rest of the lineup?
Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Miller-MSL
Poo-Brassard-Zucc
Boyle-Moore-Winnik
McD-G
Staal-Stralman
Allen-Boyle
One more go around w/ the guys. Add offense on blueline/PP w/ Dan Boyle in a limited role. Add size and grit w/ Winnik. Minor tweaks. Want another shot with the current guys? Do something like this.
I'm not in favor of remaining complacent with everyone. Somewhere, somehow, Sather and Co. need to improve this team, even if they are shrewd under the radar moves like this.
Technically, this keeps 80% of the roster the same. If you were to account Allen and Miller as current roster players from our SCF run, it would be 90% of the current roster remains the same.
Do something. People want to keep our defense? Ok. Invest more in it. Klein for Boyle swap. Want size? Ok. Winnik for Dorsett swap.
eco's bones
Registered User
I tend to think that the Rangers are really not going to bring in another big ticket player unless a big ticket player is going out.
It comes back to AV telling his team at the beginning of the season that he intended to play all 4 lines and 3 sets of d-men. We were pretty successful with that but to be able to do that you have to have enough cap space available to have quality players in those depth positions.
It comes back to AV telling his team at the beginning of the season that he intended to play all 4 lines and 3 sets of d-men. We were pretty successful with that but to be able to do that you have to have enough cap space available to have quality players in those depth positions.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
I have to agree with you here, I think MSL was our big ticket acquisition.
Another thing AV has emphasized as of late is that we need young players to step in and contribute. He mentioned how Carter's line with Toffoli and Pearson was the most effective for LA, and that we need that mix of youth and veterans. Now is a good time as ever for Miller, Fast, McIlrath, Allen, Lindberg, etc., to show that they can make a meaningful impact at the NHL level.
McSauer
Defense Wins Games
Would love to see Haggerty win a spot and play on the 4th line, with ample PP time as that big RH shot we need...
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BearishRiggs
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2013
- 183
- 38
I really don't think we're going to do anything major in FA unless Nash gets traded. IF we can move Nash for a prospect and top 6 winger, use the remaining cap to target someone like Jarome (same low cap hit, bonus laden deal as w/ Boston), or Vrbata, Cammo, Michalek...I'm just not sold on Hagelin in that top 6. I'm not sure where he'd slot in otherwise, but we need a dedicated shooter to pair with MSL.
Trading Nash does seem like a long shot, tho, so...I think basically the same lineup as we had in the playoffs is what we can expect. Which isn't bad at all, I'm looking forward to a full year with that group, but I don't know if it's enough.
Trading Nash does seem like a long shot, tho, so...I think basically the same lineup as we had in the playoffs is what we can expect. Which isn't bad at all, I'm looking forward to a full year with that group, but I don't know if it's enough.
Lol OK.
You're like the Eklund of fans.
We'll revisit this one. The others aren't worth it. Coaches/management would laugh harder than we do. I wish I could get AV to read these and comment!
Wonder if trading Klein and Dorsett for picks at the deadline (2nd and 5th, respectively) and filling their spots up w/ improvements, is the way that we go this offseason.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.300m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($4.200m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.150m)
Brian Boyle ($3.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Daniel Winnik ($1.800m)
Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Dan Boyle ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,061,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $38,333
Perhaps another roster player would need to be substituted with a prospect - such as Pouliot with Fast or Hrvik. D. Moore w/ Lindberg.
But it is possible. And actually, quite an appealing line up. I have two reservations with this line up, and both are with maximizing value. One is Staal, obviously. Although, if we plan on keeping him... then it is fine. The other is Derrick Brassard, who I think is overpaid at even an arbitration value of 4.2 million.
W/ Staal, we're looking at about 6 million dollars in increases we need to account for next year. Raises of about 2 -2.5 million for Stepan, 1-1.5 mill for Hagelin, 2 mill for Staal, probable decrease in salary to St. Louis by about .5 mill and an increase to Talbot by the same amount. That works itself out to be about 6 mill in increases. Where's that coming from?
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.300m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($4.200m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.150m)
Brian Boyle ($3.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Daniel Winnik ($1.800m)
Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Dan Boyle ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,061,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $38,333
Perhaps another roster player would need to be substituted with a prospect - such as Pouliot with Fast or Hrvik. D. Moore w/ Lindberg.
But it is possible. And actually, quite an appealing line up. I have two reservations with this line up, and both are with maximizing value. One is Staal, obviously. Although, if we plan on keeping him... then it is fine. The other is Derrick Brassard, who I think is overpaid at even an arbitration value of 4.2 million.
W/ Staal, we're looking at about 6 million dollars in increases we need to account for next year. Raises of about 2 -2.5 million for Stepan, 1-1.5 mill for Hagelin, 2 mill for Staal, probable decrease in salary to St. Louis by about .5 mill and an increase to Talbot by the same amount. That works itself out to be about 6 mill in increases. Where's that coming from?
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I would be shocked if he doesn't remain a Ranger... despite the narrative over the last few days.
If another team sees more value in him than do the Rangers, he will walk. Further, if he see an avenue to create more value for himself, he will likely walk. He's seen diminishing ice time the last three seasons as he entered the prime of his career. Prime earning time. We shall see. Don't know what the Rangers will offer, and do not know who out there can offer more. A big centerman who's good on faceoffs and can shutdown top lines? Not a bad catch.
I think he likes it here and I'd imagine he wants to win more than he wants to find a bigger role for himself on a less-successful team.
He said the statement before Richards was bought out. Probably figured he would be the odd man out if Richards remained. It increases leverage. He's been constant about remaining in NY. The money has to add up but I think he remains for this same role.
Frolov of Wraparound
Knighted
Cap most likely won't be at 71,000,000. Why get Winnik if Dorsett is suitable and cheaper in his role. Also, Winnik will go up in price after this season and won't still cost 1.8 like the last two. No way Pouliot will only get 1.5. Also, don't think Dan Boyle will sign for that little, and I see more value from Klein, as he is better defensively, cheaper, and seemed to be jumping into the play more often. And absolutely not to Brian Boyle at 3 million.
I don't really see this team as much of an improvement. I like the numbers for Kreider, Stralman, Zucc, and Brassard though, they seem pretty realistic.
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