Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

[bernmeister]

Guess you didn't bother to read what AV told Boyle last week:



I seriously doubt Sather can promise Boyle anything other than a contract. Vigneault is not going to get overruled on this one.

But you're not really interested in reality anyway.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=86833689

Yes, I saw.
Again, IMO AV would be making a mistake.
He's done a very good job, but I believe some of his decisions were mistakes (Pyatt, etc.).

Boyle at 2.5 on that line, whether it is the 2nd or 3rd whatever line for us, that would work. Big improvement over Poo. BB more conscientious, plays better all around, IMO.

That simple.

No guts, no glory.
If the gm or coach or anyone else is wrong in someone's opinion, you have the right to call them on it, as long as you can say why.

 

[haveandare]

Good question. I think they will be north of $3m+. Answers:

He loves NY,

we have a shot if we can keep most of our guys, shed excess cap and somehow add 1-2 difference makers (although I suspect that will mean getting a guy like Draisatil and hoping he is playing before and ready to step up end of next year).

Brass + Zuc are good, talented linemates he would complement. He would only have to positively contribute not be 'the guy' to finish scoring, yet he would be welcomed to finish as is opportunistic.

It's publicly a handshake deal. He's saying to all the NHL, I've grown, and if you put me with gifted enough linemates, I can (a) score enough and (b) contribute. If I'm wrong, it's not that high a cost. Barring injury we at least get the d etc out of him for another year. If I'm right, he will have earned a big payday. It will be proven the strong finish last season was not a fluke.

By then Nash's NMC is over, if he was not already moved. There would be room to extend Boyle 2 years more with club option on 3rd. We don't have to go crazy, but we could then pay more pro rata to both his individual output as well as the overall performance of the line.

I'm not sure that really makes sense for Boyle or for the Rangers.

For Boyle, he can say that he's capable of more right now, without having to prove it, and teams will pay him for what he thinks he can do. If he gets a year to "prove it" in NY, maybe he doesn't, then he's just lost millions of dollars for essentially nothing.

For the Rangers, you just can't promise people certain roster spots when they sign. That's no way to build a team. Down the line, someone gets hurt, someone from the minors steps up, there's a trade, etc, any number of situations can occur where you'd want to mix that line and other lines up, and Boyle for a year frankly isn't worth those conditions IMO.

Nash has an NTC for the rest of his deal after the NMC wears off. He's not going anywhere that he doesn't personally approve of.

 

[bernmeister]

Sharp would be the perfect acquisition for this team. Chicago is looking to shed cap space. Unfortunately I don't see a fit for a trade to be made, unless Chicago wants Hagelin and Kristo or Fast.

Sharp + Clendenning + X
for
Stepan + Girardi + Y

here, X is greater than Y.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Gaborik resigning with LA. Greene resigning w/ LA.

Hartnell traded. Markov resigned.

Cmon Sather. Let's get the ball moving here a little bit.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I would agree with you, except I believe Brass Zuc are chemically in sync, and I think they pull Boyle with them, not other possibility of Boyle taking them down.

without Brass Zucc, I prob don't make this suggestion; I'd be open minded as to what we had instead of Brass Zuc, but not expecting fit for BB.

Bern,

Pouliot works on that third line because he's 1) much faster than Boyle (don't even try to say that Boyle is faster) 2) has better hands than Boyle 3) can score more than Boyle

The only thing that Boyle does better than Pouliot is cycle down low. Boyle is an amazing 4th liner and penalty killer. He isn't signing a "tryout" contract with a team that he's been on for five years. That's a slap in the face to him. He's going to get a contract for more than he's worth by some team that thinks he can be a third liner.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Sharp + Clendenning + X
for
Stepan + Girardi + Y

here, X is greater than Y.

And now Stepan for ****ing Patrick Sharp and an unproven prospect. You want to trade our #1C and top-pairing defenseman for Patrick ****ing Sharp and a prospect. Brilliant. You can't actually think these proposals are rational or reasonable ideas?

But let me guess, WE NEED MORE HORSES.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern I keep responding to this idea of yours, but I'm curious.

Why would Boyle take 1 yr 2.5 to play with Brass and Zucc when he most likely get a 3-4 year deal between 2.8-3.8 million for a chance at a 3rd line role? Why would he do that?

And if we owe him, as you say, which I don't believe we do, how is giving him under market value on a 1 year contract paying him back?

It just doesn't make sense. Pouliot is a superior play to Boyle, Boyle fits his role wonderfully and I love the guy, but he's a 4th line C/LW and top PKer. It's all he is. He's going to be grossly overpaid.

Disagree, across the board.
Also BB 1yr courtesy 2.5m >> Pou for much more closer to 4/4+

 

[BearishRiggs]

Bottom line, Boyle is going to get a Bryan Bickell contract in FA and aftewards we'll all be very very grateful it didn't come from us.

The turnaround on this board is incredible sometimes. Boyle sucked when Torts kept feeding him more minutes, time on the 3rd line, sometimes even PP time. The guy is an offensive black hole everywhere else except on a 4th line. If someone wants to overpay him, so be it. 4th line guys who can PK and block shots are not exactly a scarcity.

 

[EpicDing]

Disagree, across the board.
Also BB 1yr courtesy 2.5m >> Pou for much more closer to 4/4+

You seriously think Poo is getting 4/4? Lmfao.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Another asset that needs to be dealt this summer: Danny Kristo.

There's a lot of dispute and variation about how good of a prospect he is. Treff and Hockey's Future has him ranked our top prospect. I've seen lists where he's 4th. I've seen lists where he's 7th.

A lot of volatility with his stock.

Personally, what i've seen from him in Hfd and what I was able to see on TV during the preseason, Kristo has definitely got it offensively. He has that "it" factor. But defensively, jeez is he a liability.

I know they sent him down to the AHL this year so that he could become more disciplined defensively. In place, any time I went to a wolfpack game, I could tell that he was passing up offensive opportunities in place of defensive responsibility.

Hockey's Future year-end prospect list (I think it's the year end one) still has him ranked 1st. They're sold on his stock.

While it's great to hear that we may potentially have a very solid offensive chip in our system.... what's not great to hear is that he has some sort of clause in his contract that allows him to become a UFA at the end of this upcoming season if he does not play in about 80 NHL games.

Like Staal, he could realistically walk out the door for nothing in return.

I understand many have soured on him, but I can assure you that he has some serious potential. Potential that a team with space to play him could relish.

He's a first line talent, if he develops, but really... we have little leverage over the situation.

Personally, I'd try to add him to any Staal or Klein trade we may see in the offseason. If not, i'd try and trade him to a team like the Sabres for their 2nd round pick. Give him the opportunity to play in those 80 games for some team and draft someone else.

We clearly don't have an available spot for him next year. He is a RW. Nash, MSL, Zucc, Fast, and Haggerty are all ahead of him in the depth chart, simply because their defensive abilities are more developed and the only potential spots we have open for wingers are on the bottom two lines - the lines that focus on forechecking and defense.

OVer the next year, assets that we should explore opportunities to trade: Staal, Klein, Brassard, and Kristo.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm not sure that really makes sense for Boyle or for the Rangers.

For Boyle, he can say that he's capable of more right now, without having to prove it, and teams will pay him for what he thinks he can do. If he gets a year to "prove it" in NY, maybe he doesn't, then he's just lost millions of dollars for essentially nothing.

For the Rangers, you just can't promise people certain roster spots when they sign. That's no way to build a team. Down the line, someone gets hurt, someone from the minors steps up, there's a trade, etc, any number of situations can occur where you'd want to mix that line and other lines up, and Boyle for a year frankly isn't worth those conditions IMO.

Nash has an NTC for the rest of his deal after the NMC wears off. He's not going anywhere that he doesn't personally approve of.

yes but NTC is limited.
He can't continue to say no to everything.

Boyle = think it's a gamble he would take, remember he loves it here, which you are overly discounting,
also,
I agree people shouldn't be given things without earning, but I believe Boyle has demonstrated he deserves chance for that line, I make that promise.

If he wanted C slot between Kreider + MSL, for example, even though speedy, I would so no, he hasn't demonstrated enough playmaking vision.
But as LW w/BrasZuc, yeah, that would work.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern,

Pouliot works on that third line because he's 1) much faster than Boyle (don't even try to say that Boyle is faster) 2) has better hands than Boyle 3) can score more than Boyle

The only thing that Boyle does better than Pouliot is cycle down low. Boyle is an amazing 4th liner and penalty killer. He isn't signing a "tryout" contract with a team that he's been on for five years. That's a slap in the face to him. He's going to get a contract for more than he's worth by some team that thinks he can be a third liner.

I disagree with the premise of your argument.
Prefer Boyle
would trade Poo if he were not UFA

 

[bernmeister]

And now Stepan for ****ing Patrick Sharp and an unproven prospect. You want to trade our #1C and top-pairing defenseman for Patrick ****ing Sharp and a prospect. Brilliant. You can't actually think these proposals are rational or reasonable ideas?

But let me guess, WE NEED MORE HORSES.

Reject your premise of "unproven prospect" as an effort to suggest he is without value.

This gets us out from the mistake of overpaying Girardi.
Sharp can hold the fort at C if nec.

And yes,
still my guitar gently weeps while (and in part because)
WE NEED MORE HORSES

 

[bernmeister]

You seriously think Poo is getting 4/4? Lmfao.

Let's see how overpaid he is.

 

[bernmeister]

Bottom line, Boyle is going to get a Bryan Bickell contract in FA and aftewards we'll all be very very grateful it didn't come from us.

The turnaround on this board is incredible sometimes. Boyle sucked when Torts kept feeding him more minutes, time on the 3rd line, sometimes even PP time. The guy is an offensive black hole everywhere else except on a 4th line. If someone wants to overpay him, so be it. 4th line guys who can PK and block shots are not exactly a scarcity.

I agree we should not given him big multiple contract
I disagree your assessment of limitations of his value, and should be creative if he would do the 1 yr for 2.5

 

[Mac n Gs]

I disagree with the premise of your argument.
Prefer Boyle
would trade Poo if he were not UFA

So you disagree with the truth? Pouliot is better at every offense-related facet of the game than Boyle. You're the only person that would argue otherwise. Just because Boyle scored one nice goal in the playoff does not mean he's a great offensive player.

Boyle has had third line minutes, and he has looked horrible offensively with the extra time. Stop holding onto his 20 goal season. He's not a 20 goal scorer.

Also, there is no chance in hell Pouliot is getting a 4/4 contract. Don't know where you got those numbers from that you think Pouliot is jumping from 1.7M to 4+M

 

[bernmeister]

Another asset that needs to be dealt this summer: Danny Kristo.

There's a lot of dispute and variation about how good of a prospect he is. Treff and Hockey's Future has him ranked our top prospect. I've seen lists where he's 4th. I've seen lists where he's 7th.

A lot of volatility with his stock.

Personally, what i've seen from him in Hfd and what I was able to see on TV during the preseason, Kristo has definitely got it offensively. He has that "it" factor. But defensively, jeez is he a liability.

I know they sent him down to the AHL this year so that he could become more disciplined defensively. In place, any time I went to a wolfpack game, I could tell that he was passing up offensive opportunities in place of defensive responsibility.

Hockey's Future year-end prospect list (I think it's the year end one) still has him ranked 1st. They're sold on his stock.

While it's great to hear that we may potentially have a very solid offensive chip in our system.... what's not great to hear is that he has some sort of clause in his contract that allows him to become a UFA at the end of this upcoming season if he does not play in about 80 NHL games.

Like Staal, he could realistically walk out the door for nothing in return.

I understand many have soured on him, but I can assure you that he has some serious potential. Potential that a team with space to play him could relish.

He's a first line talent, if he develops, but really... we have little leverage over the situation.

Personally, I'd try to add him to any Staal or Klein trade we may see in the offseason. If not, i'd try and trade him to a team like the Sabres for their 2nd round pick. Give him the opportunity to play in those 80 games for some team and draft someone else.

We clearly don't have an available spot for him next year. He is a RW. Nash, MSL, Zucc, Fast, and Haggerty are all ahead of him in the depth chart, simply because their defensive abilities are more developed and the only potential spots we have open for wingers are on the bottom two lines - the lines that focus on forechecking and defense.

OVer the next year, assets that we should explore opportunities to trade: Staal, Klein, Brassard, and Kristo.

Ok to trade Kristo if we get enough right away as we now have Haggerty, but expect after other roster moves eventually make space, to max return for Kristo we would have to call him up and showcase first.

 

[BearishRiggs]

Reject your premise of "unproven prospect" as an effort to suggest he is without value.

This gets us out from the mistake of overpaying Girardi.
Sharp can hold the fort at C if nec.

And yes,
still my guitar gently weeps while (and in part because)
WE NEED MORE HORSES

Hey guys...you know how we just bought out our 33 year old, former PPG 1C superstar? You know what this team REALLY needs after that? A 32 year old PPG 1C superstar! And we should give up our best center at 24 years old for him!

What could possibly go wrong with this? Except...you know...what has gone wrong every other single time we've brought in in a "superstar" player to put us over the hump.

Also: What about Boyle, who hit 21 goals once 4 years ago, makes you prefer him to a consistent 30-35 point role player who has never made above 2 million? Boyle would never, and more importantly, his agent would never LET him sign a 1 year deal for under 3 mil. He doesn't need to prove anything to the organization, he'll get paid somewhere else and that's all there is to it.

 

[bernmeister]

So you disagree with the truth? Pouliot is better at every offense-related facet of the game than Boyle. You're the only person that would argue otherwise. Just because Boyle scored one nice goal in the playoff does not mean he's a great offensive player.

Boyle has had third line minutes, and he has looked horrible offensively with the extra time. Stop holding onto his 20 goal season. He's not a 20 goal scorer.

Also, there is no chance in hell Pouliot is getting a 4/4 contract. Don't know where you got those numbers from that you think Pouliot is jumping from 1.7M to 4+M

Disagree w/your assessment of the truth, which does not speak to the specific combo I noted of Bras + Zuc.

The die is likely cast.
Doubt AV would listen.
But should take every opportunity to see if this can catch fire IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF the price is right, risk is minimal.

 

[bernmeister]

Hey guys...you know how we just bought out our 33 year old, former PPG 1C superstar? You know what this team REALLY needs after that? A 32 year old PPG 1C superstar! And we should give up our best center at 24 years old for him!

What could possibly go wrong with this? Except...you know...what has gone wrong every other single time we've brought in in a "superstar" player to put us over the hump.

Also: What about Boyle, who hit 21 goals once 4 years ago, makes you prefer him to a consistent 30-35 point role player who has never made above 2 million? Boyle would never, and more importantly, his agent would never LET him sign a 1 year deal for under 3 mil. He doesn't need to prove anything to the organization, he'll get paid somewhere else and that's all there is to it.

Again, you are ignoring that Sharp = moving Girardi overpayment.
Options to move Sharp more readily later, if nec.

Next time, don't forget to tell it all.

 

[xChrisTilDeathx]

Poo > Boyal in fact id rank importance of free agent signing as follows:

1) Krider
2) Zucc
3) Brass
4) Pouliot
5) Boyal
6) J. Moore
7) D. Moore

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Poo > Boyal in fact id rank importance of free agent signing as follows:

1) Krider
2) Zucc
3) Brass
4) Pouliot
5) Boyal
6) J. Moore
7) D. Moore

Boyle*
Kreider*

 

[xChrisTilDeathx]

Boyle*
Kreider*

my bad, but what do you think of that order? Obviously this list is off the basis that we cant afford Stralman

 

[bobbop]

I like ROR a lot as a player but for anyone thinking he is ELITE needs to think again. I believe he is more a product of his environment. Matt Duchene is an ELITE center they have that I would pick him up to come here. Although hes going nowhere unfortunately. I just want management to think young high impact center no joe thorntons who disses the Rangers for years or overpaid Eric Staals. Paul Statsny is not a number 1 center and is not the answer for us. In 2011 I thought at the time the best route to try was to try to obtain spezza whether he was available or not. Id even take him this year pending what the sens want although I like many on here want a YOUNG, HIGH IMPACT, POTENTIALLY ELITE number 1 center. Yes we know its hard to find but that should be managements 1st priority of acquiring.I would take a Kadri,Schiefele etc. Absolutely love the kid Nichuskin in Dallas whose body looks like a young Anismov's but can dangle like Malkin. No 37 year old Joe Thorntons. My spezza reasoning is his only year left on his contract and just what it would cost as murrary isnt in a position of strength it seems. I would only try that after we fail at every young gun option there is.

Watched Colorado extensively last year and couldn't disagree more on ROR.He is an elite player. From what I hear, he's also a team leader. He makes other players better, not the other way around.

Kadri? What do you want here, a Smurf reunion(older fans will get that one)

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

my bad, but what do you think of that order?

I don't consider our RFA's to be real free agents. It's so rare to see a team lose RFA's.

Kreider, Zucc, and Brassard all seem like locks to be on this team next year regardless of their demands.

After that, my order of importance to the team: Boyle, D. Moore, Pouliot, J. Moore.

Boyle on the PK and 4th line and in terms of locker room importance is irreplaceable. The team would take a big hit w/o him, IMO.

I'd prefer to sign him and D. Moore, essentially keeping our entire 4th line in tact.

Dorsett, I could deal without. He's the weakest part of that line. Carcillo provided what he did for half the cost, and every little bit counts when you're constantly up against the ceiling.

After that, Pouliot is a non factor to me. 36 pt player. Sure he's fast and somewhat physical but man was he a big time defensive liability. If we're giving 15 minutes to a player who has offensive upside but is defensively irresponsible, I'd rather give that time to JT Miller, 21 y/o who could actually become a part of this team's long-term future. His offensive output potential > Pouliot's, he's cheaper, and giving him that time would be a long-term investment move.

I think in terms of FA, my list would go as such:

1a - Boyle
1b - Stralman
3 - D. Moore
4 - Pouliot
5 - Carcillo