ATD Chat Thread XX

[Habsfan18]

Speaking of tanks, who remembers the Russian Bear Evgeny Artukhin? If you took someone who never watched a hockey game in their life and showed them a random Tampa or Atlanta game from like 15-20 years ago and asked them to guess who the star player was, they'd probably pick him.

6'6, 255lbs and could f***ing FLY out there. Skated like Paul Kariya or a similar guy of small stature but in that massive frame. Legitimately looked like a million bucks out there but then you'd look at the score sheet and it was always big fat 0's all around (except for hits). Nothing he ever did amounted to any actual offensive productivity. But visually you'd think this was a 40-40 guy. And man did I see him RUN through guys out there. Couldn't have been fun to play against.

Size and speed is often deceiving. Those guys tend to LOOK great and without stat watching, casual viewers could easily be fooled into thinking they're much better than they actually were. Chad Kilger was another one of those guys. He'd show those flashes where you'd be like holy crap that's shades of Lindros...but then he'd finish the season with 20 points.

This Protas kid passes the eye test but he also is backing it up on the score sheet. The Caps might have a real good one on their hands. And his brother is playing for my Windsor Spitfires. Another big boy who may join his brother on the Caps one day.

 

[VanIslander]

I've never heard of the guy.

The "Russian Bear" is most often the moniker of the ATD'd staple foil of Esposito in the Summit Series.

 

[spitsfan24]

Speaking of tanks, who remembers the Russian Bear Evgeny Artukhin? If you took someone who never watched a hockey game in their life and showed them a random Tampa or Atlanta game from like 15-20 years ago and asked them to guess who the star player was, they'd probably pick him.

6'6, 255lbs and could f***ing FLY out there. Skated like Paul Kariya or a similar guy of small stature but in that massive frame. Legitimately looked like a million bucks out there but then you'd look at the score sheet and it was always big fat 0's all around (except for hits). Nothing he ever did amounted to any actual offensive productivity. But visually you'd think this was a 40-40 guy. And man did I see him RUN through guys out there. Couldn't have been fun to play against.

Size and speed is often deceiving. Those guys tend to LOOK great and without stat watching, casual viewers could easily be fooled into thinking they're much better than they actually were. Chad Kilger was another one of those guys. He'd show those flashes where you'd be like holy crap that's shades of Lindros...but then he'd finish the season with 20 points.

This Protas kid passes the eye test but he also is backing it up on the score sheet. The Caps might have a real good one on their hands. And his brother is playing for my Windsor Spitfires. Another big boy who may join his brother on the Caps one day.

*ahem* My Windsor Spitfires you mean.

But I agree with everything else you said here.

 

[Habsfan18]

*ahem* My Windsor Spitfires you mean.

But I agree with everything else you said here.

Can't they be ours? Actually, if you live IN Windsor, I guess I should concede. I'm like 45 minutes away!

I get to Windsor every now and then. Love going to Devonshire. Less now though that they ripped my heart out of my chest by closing Buffalo Wild Wings.

 

[nabby12]

Ilya Protas is a stud too! 93 points in 51 games as an 18 year old with Windsor is awesome.

Hope they play on a line one day together in Washington.

 

[Habsfan18]

I've never heard of the guy.

The "Russian Bear" is most often the moniker of the ATD'd staple foil of Esposito in the Summit Series.

 

[spitsfan24]

Can't they be ours? Actually, if you live IN Windsor, I guess I should concede. I'm like 45 minutes away!

I get to Windsor every now and then. Love going to Devonshire. Less now though that they ripped my heart out of my chest by closing Buffalo Wild Wings.

I do live in Windsor, yes. I've had season tickets for 12 seasons now. But the team is big enough for the both of us, I guess.

And I had honestly just gotten over BWW closing. I used to go there all the time. You've brought the pain all back now, but nice to know I'm not the only one devastated by its closing.

Ilya Protas is a stud too! 93 points in 51 games as an 18 year old with Windsor is awesome.

Hope they play on a line one day together in Washington.

He really is. Him and Greentree (the LA first rounder) have been incredibly dominant on the same line.

It's funny how with big Protas, he fell in the draft because of the worries about his skating. We've obviously seen how much he's fixed that.

And now, it seems like everybody (except for Washington) made the same mistake once again with Ilya. He's not a great skater by any means, but his talent level is so high, he doesn't even need to be a burner. If his skating improves like his brother? Watch out.

 

[Habsfan18]

It remains to be seen how useful it'll be for the ATD and bio making, but I've just received word that Dale Arnold is working on "The Coaches" for Triumph Books and it's tentatively set for publication in November.

Publishers blurb:

"The Coaches honors the experiences of NHL coaches throughout history. Author and longtime broadcaster Dale Arnold profiles leaders across eras, sharing their journeys, struggles, strategies, and moments of glory."

 

[jigglysquishy]

Trying to do some ATD bio research. The search functions on Sportsnet, TSN, and ESPN are atrocious. The Hockey News is better but still rough.

It should not be easier to find information on Frank Fredrickson than David Pastrnak.

 

[Habsfan18]

Trying to do some ATD bio research. The search functions on Sportsnet, TSN, and ESPN are atrocious. The Hockey News is better but still rough.

It should not be easier to find information on Frank Fredrickson than David Pastrnak.

The Sports Forecaster website used to have useful information and scouting reports on present day players but last time I checked they had a big website revamp maybe a year or two ago and everything was dumbed down and all the useful info was no longer there. It was a huge downgrade.

What I would love, and obviously it would never happen, would be if they brought back the Hockey Scouting Report books. Full pages of quotes and intangibles on all the present day players. Really useful way of getting a player's entire style of play in writing. Sure we have our eyes as we can see these guys play whenever we want, but in terms of bio making all we really have now are random TSN or Sportsnet articles, really.

 

[VanIslander]

Technology has not 'helped' much the last decade.

The golden age of the 'net for info has passed into the hands of marketers.

Smartphones dumbed down websites, monitization, algorythms-turned-AI...

Heck, more than half of google searches nowadays refuses to research the hockey history names i input; instead, some near spelling pop culture icon pops up... what happened to "do you mean...?" in google searches.

Ugh.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I have the publisher's plus membership on newspapers.com and it is by far, the best resource I've found to date, when it comes to researching any player, even those still playing today. It's obviously quite a tool the further back in time you go.

I think it was $75 for 6 months, which isn't bad, considering the amount of time I spend there. I know it's not necessarily "cheap" but trying to do a proper bio on any player without access to newspapers is a tall order to say the least.

 

[Habsfan18]

I have the publisher's plus membership on newspapers.com and it is by far, the best resource I've found to date, when it comes to researching any player, even those still playing today. It's obviously quite a tool the further back in time you go.

I think it was $75 for 6 months, which isn't bad, considering the amount of time I spend there. I know it's not necessarily "cheap" but trying to do a proper bio on any player without access to newspapers is a tall order to say the least.

Yes, I've been a subscriber since 2020 and it's SO worth it. But I haven't had much luck finding a lot in terms of useful research on present day players. Newspaper coverage just ain't what it used to be. Still the odd decent piece, but a lot of fluff.

Nothing beats the coverage of early days hockey. Montreal and Ottawa papers had entire damn pages dedicated to detailed game reports. Incredible.

 

[rmartin65]

I'll also add to the praise for newspapers.com- it is fantastic. I don't see any way I don't stay a member for the foreseeable future.

Nothing beats the coverage of early days hockey. Montreal and Ottawa papers had entire damn pages dedicated to detailed game reports. Incredible.

Not just Montreal and Ottawa- Winnipeg, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and even some of the smaller cities have some impressive coverage.

 

[Habsfan18]

I'll also add to the praise for newspapers.com- it is fantastic. I don't see any way I don't stay a member for the foreseeable future.


Not just Montreal and Ottawa- Winnipeg, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and even some of the smaller cities have some impressive coverage.

Indeed. Montreal and Ottawa papers are two of my favourites but you're correct in saying other papers had impressive coverage as well.

It's really a shame how far newspaper coverage has fallen. Obviously a sign of the times but still sad nonetheless. Just tested right now for fun. Random player. Searched "Roope Hintz" in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram 2024 archives. 24 hits..for the entire year.

 

[rmartin65]

It's really a shame how far newspaper coverage has fallen. Obviously a sign of the times but still sad nonetheless. Just tested right now for fun. Random player. Searched "Roope Hintz" in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram 2024 archives. 24 hits..for the entire year.

Yikes, that's depressing.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yes, I've been a subscriber since 2020 and it's SO worth it. But I haven't had much luck finding a lot in terms of useful research on present day players. Newspaper coverage just ain't what it used to be. Still the odd decent piece, but a lot of fluff.

Nothing beats the coverage of early days hockey. Montreal and Ottawa papers had entire damn pages dedicated to detailed game reports. Incredible.

The pre-consolidation game reports are pure gold. I feel like I'm in a time machine and chuckle at the writing style (very detailed, highly excitable and bombastic) often. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I honestly feel like I can visualize most of a game, especially when you see the reports on a Stanley Cup finals level contest.

That's great writing.

I don't think the same era has quite as in depth and robust player analysis like you see in the 40's-60's especially (the regular columns of Baz O'Meara, Dink Carroll, Milt Dunnell come to mind immediately).

What is great about those fellas, is they were around for much of the pre-consolidation era so their work isn't always centered around the active players of the time.

You start to see a rapid decline in the depth of game reports once you get past consolidation and into the 1930's.

Obviously by then, many people have radio, print is shortening almost everything to cram as much ad material into as much space as possible. By the 50's and 60's, obviously TV's and broadcasts are entering people's homes.

The "need" for in depth writing diminishes. It continues to do so today.

It sucks, as someone who really enjoys reading and writing, we are largely confined to message boards, cookie cutter news outlets, cesspools like X, and the like....

So I spend money to read and document history that most people couldn't care less about and I love it. If someone paid me to do this, even a barely livable wage, I'd research and write about hockey history until the day I die.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think there's still great hockey coverage into the 70s and 80s, but you lack the play-by-play of the 10s-30s.

The coverage drop off in the 80s is pretty bad. Lots of newspapers (especially in the Midwest) stop covering hockey themselves and start just copy/pasting from Pittsburgh/Detroit. And then into the 90s the coverage in your Toronto/Calgary/Montreal really drops off.

I tried to go through page-by-page of my local paper (Leaderpost) for Jon Quick. Really putrid coverage during the Kings' 2012 run. Kiprusoff's 2004 run has bad coverage in Calgary. But you go back 30 years and you get three or four writers going in depth for every playoff game.

For the goalie project, I eventually just gave up trying for anything post-lockout. The coverage is just too weak.