Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Thank you for your kind words.

I agree with everything you said here.

It would stink to lose Staal, I don't want them to trade him, but the cap restrictions and need to improve other areas of the roster...it makes a lot of sense. If we can come out of this summer having only had to replace/upgrade Richards and take a downgrade from Staal. I'd say we dodged a bullet based on the amount of guys we have to retain.

Its going to be tight. I trust Gorton to find value players. And as crazy as it might sound, i trust Sather to allow his staff to help him make the right moves. I questioned the St. Louis trade, but it nearly worked. We were 3 wins and 3 OT loses from a Cup.

One thing is for sure, we will need to find value. Be it bargain bin, scrap heap, or what have you. Value players that fit the identity of the team.

The #1C that will take this team over the top just isn't out there, and likely never will be. Thats a reality this team needs to face. And if we acquire an upgrade at center in a package involving Staal, how much better is the team really? I cant get behind the idea of using your only trade chip to go after offense in a deal that could wreck the defense, which has been the foundation of this team (along with Lundqvist) for several years now.

I almost wish the Rangers would buy-out Richards, re-sign everybody and then try to find a couple of bargain basement forwards with potential to catch lightning in a bottle (think Nylander).

This team just made the Stanley Cup final, so you'll have to excuse if Im apprehensive when it comes to risk that could decimate the defense.

 

[Dfence033]

I don't do the trade-proposal things very often (nor do I post all that often), but I've been playing around with two trades that could reshape the team to be a combination of the 2012 all-lines-in mentality, and the 2014 possession/speed game.

I've seen a Staal+ for Kadri+Gardiner trade floated several times. Depending on what that plus is, I think that should be a target, followed by an outside the box idea:

Rick Nash + Derek Dorsett + Danny Kristo to the Predators for Colin Wilson (C/W who hasn't produced the way they wanted him to, and seems to have fallen out of favor a bit), Viktor Stalberg (had a bad year in Nashville, and is overpaid, but a previous possession monster with tons of speed, but mostly here to offset salary and look for a rebound in a system more suited to where he produced well), and Craig Smith (C/W who's biggest moment of notoriety occurred when he missed an open net by shooting high from 4 feet away, but a good 2C two-way player with offensive upside of 20+ goals, 50+ points).

The Rangers need a few things: One, to shed some salary to keep certain players around (Boyle, Moore, Stralman, Zuke, more next year, etc.). To gain some more mobility and offense from the back-end. To keep up with their speed/possession game, while adding some size. And to get some right-handed shots.

Gardiner provides more mobility and offense than Staal, albeit with a decline in defensive abilities. Kadri provides the offensive punch to replace what Richards' (hopeful) buyout will lose.

Craig Smith scored 24 goals and 52 points last year, while playing two-way hockey in the Nashville system, is only 24 years old, and right-handed. Colin Wilson is a prime break-out candidate, has size, can play C or W, and is only 24. Viktor Stalberg is a prime bounce-back candidate, and in a similar system in Chicago, was a 20 goal, 40 point possession and speed monster.

The Rangers lose their main offensive threat in Nash, and go back to a more team-based approach that served them well in 2012, until the shot-blocking and 3 minute Bickel ran them out of gas. They also gain more size, speed, and possession ability, and lose more than enough cap space to resign everyone this year (and next):

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.851m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Craig Smith ($2.000m)
Colin Wilson ($2.000m) / Derick Brassard ($4.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Brian Boyle ($2.250m) / Dominic Moore ($1.700m) / Viktor Stalberg ($3.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.827m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,668,208; BONUSES: $591,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,831,792

How bad or off-value is this?

 

[The Broadway Hat]

This team seriously needs to dump Nash. Compliance buyout if necessary. Move Kreider for Spezza. Don't take the bait on Thornton unless we're talking Shawn to play 4th line. Forget the ROR talk because it's not realistic. Extend Staal before he runs to his brothers. Sign Fayne from the Debbie's. Would be Sathers best offseason in recent memory.

Pouliot Spezza Zucc (could be one of the best top lines in hockey)
Brassard Stepan JT
Hags Richards St Louis
Dorsett Boyle Thornton

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Fayne
Klein Moore

King

 

[Ail]

This team seriously needs to dump Nash. Compliance buyout if necessary. Move Kreider for Spezza. Don't take the bait on Thornton unless we're talking Shawn to play 4th line. Forget the ROR talk because it's not realistic. Extend Staal before he runs to his brothers. Sign Fayne from the Debbie's. Would be Sathers best offseason in recent memory.

Pouliot Spezza Zucc (could be one of the best top lines in hockey)
Brassard Stepan JT
Hags Richards St Louis
Dorsett Boyle Thornton

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Fayne
Klein Moore

King

Rofl. McDavid here we come!


Oh wait no first.

 

[TheTakedown]

I agree.

His injury history is a big concern. And, IMO he is not worth 6 million per year.

Stralman at between 4 and 5 million is the better option.

They would need to find a steady left-handed defenseman to slot into that #2 LHD spot.

I don't think it is that he is not worth $6M...

It's that on our team, where Ryan McDonough is our top defenseman at $4.7M, it does not make sense to have a $6M #2 defensemen undernead McDonough...

If McD did not exist then I would be all for keeping Staal, but given what he'll command (Girardi money at the least), and what he brings to the table (Shutdown defense + minimal offense), and his durability issues (yes, his injuries are freak accidents, but they've taken their toll on him in some ways), it makes sense to jettison him now.

Staal just had an awesome playoff run... his value is at an all time high, even with the injuries... he's also a #1 LD on about 22-24 other teams in this league, so lets not act like Staal blows chunks.

Those are the reasons why it makes sense to move him now. it's a risk, but this is, in fact, looking towards the future (for all you "WE NEEDDZZZ THE PIKSSSZ!!" fans on here)

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The Rangers have 4 picks in the draft.

2nd,3rd,4th and 5th(FLA)

1st-TB

5th-SJ

6th-SJ

7th-LA

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=723157&navid=nhl:topheads

I may be wrong, but didn't we trade our 5th rd pick for Diaz, too?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Jesus christ. I didn't realize we only had 4.

I'm not worried about the 6th or 7th round picks. Would be nice to have the 1st round pick but glad its so low (28)

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

This team seriously needs to dump Nash. Compliance buyout if necessary. Move Kreider for Spezza. Don't take the bait on Thornton unless we're talking Shawn to play 4th line. Forget the ROR talk because it's not realistic. Extend Staal before he runs to his brothers. Sign Fayne from the Debbie's. Would be Sathers best offseason in recent memory.

Pouliot Spezza Zucc (could be one of the best top lines in hockey)
Brassard Stepan JT
Hags Richards St Louis
Dorsett Boyle Thornton

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Fayne
Klein Moore

King

Garth?

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

The #1C that will take this team over the top just isn't out there, and likely never will be. Thats a reality this team needs to face. And if we acquire an upgrade at center in a package involving Staal, how much better is the team really? I cant get behind the idea of using your only trade chip to go after offense in a deal that could wreck the defense, which has been the foundation of this team (along with Lundqvist) for several years now.

I almost wish the Rangers would buy-out Richards, re-sign everybody and then try to find a couple of bargain basement forwards with potential to catch lightning in a bottle (think Nylander).

This team just made the Stanley Cup final, so you'll have to excuse if Im apprehensive when it comes to risk that could decimate the defense.

You're not wrong, I agree with both of you.

I keep saying how much I'd prefer to keep both. It's a stinker of a situation we are in with the cap. But this happens to teams that get far in the playoffs a few times in a few years. I know its hard to believe because most of us Rangers fans are self depricating in a way. We always expect the worst. But, we really have witnessed what could be considered an "elite" team in Eastern Conference terms. Two ECF appearances in three years and we just lost the Cup by a close margin (if you look at each game, not the final game count of 4-1). Had we won the Cup, this would be a normal occurance of having to somewhat dismantle things or retool.

It makes losing the Cup that much harder to swallow.

But, back to Staal, yea, i agree. I agree with both camps. Its going to be near impossible to replace Staal. But i agree that if the cap won't allow us to keep him, then he holds a lot of value to improve another area of weakness.

Try to keep the main core, and suppliment with value grabs (i mentioned this earlier, too). Or, move one or two of the core and get back more revered names.

Or maybe we catch a miracle and guys take a hometown discount. But, im not holding my breath for that.

Draft can't get here soon enough. It'll be interesting to see if things start rolling there while all the league is under one roof.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't do the trade-proposal things very often (nor do I post all that often), but I've been playing around with two trades that could reshape the team to be a combination of the 2012 all-lines-in mentality, and the 2014 possession/speed game.

I've seen a Staal+ for Kadri+Gardiner trade floated several times. Depending on what that plus is, I think that should be a target, followed by an outside the box idea:

Rick Nash + Derek Dorsett + Danny Kristo to the Predators for Colin Wilson (C/W who hasn't produced the way they wanted him to, and seems to have fallen out of favor a bit), Viktor Stalberg (had a bad year in Nashville, and is overpaid, but a previous possession monster with tons of speed, but mostly here to offset salary and look for a rebound in a system more suited to where he produced well), and Craig Smith (C/W who's biggest moment of notoriety occurred when he missed an open net by shooting high from 4 feet away, but a good 2C two-way player with offensive upside of 20+ goals, 50+ points).

The Rangers need a few things: One, to shed some salary to keep certain players around (Boyle, Moore, Stralman, Zuke, more next year, etc.). To gain some more mobility and offense from the back-end. To keep up with their speed/possession game, while adding some size. And to get some right-handed shots.

Gardiner provides more mobility and offense than Staal, albeit with a decline in defensive abilities. Kadri provides the offensive punch to replace what Richards' (hopeful) buyout will lose.

Craig Smith scored 24 goals and 52 points last year, while playing two-way hockey in the Nashville system, is only 24 years old, and right-handed. Colin Wilson is a prime break-out candidate, has size, can play C or W, and is only 24. Viktor Stalberg is a prime bounce-back candidate, and in a similar system in Chicago, was a 20 goal, 40 point possession and speed monster.

The Rangers lose their main offensive threat in Nash, and go back to a more team-based approach that served them well in 2012, until the shot-blocking and 3 minute Bickel ran them out of gas. They also gain more size, speed, and possession ability, and lose more than enough cap space to resign everyone this year (and next):

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.851m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Craig Smith ($2.000m)
Colin Wilson ($2.000m) / Derick Brassard ($4.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Brian Boyle ($2.250m) / Dominic Moore ($1.700m) / Viktor Stalberg ($3.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.827m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,668,208; BONUSES: $591,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,831,792

How bad or off-value is this?

I like this. at worst, it's a marginal upgrade. At best, it's a good couple steps towards contending to the finals again

 

[BLOCKERSAVE]

Its not a good position to be in. Both of these guys are going to get paid big time. Stralman this offseason and Staal next offseason. I happen to think Staal is the better player, but I also understand his trade value.

But I also happen to think Klein can step up pretty seamlessly and give this team what Stralman did, which is zero offense and solid defensive play. In fact, I think Klein improved immensely as the playoffs went on.

Maybe they trade Staal for an upgrade at center. Thats a good thing. It also puts John Moore in the top 4 and thats not something I can live with.

Why is Staal getting a big pay day? I don't understand this. Is offence is terrible, he does not rush up ice, is passing is quite awful, is decision making is suspect, he is not very physical, please tell me why he is getting pay big time?

 

[haveandare]

This team seriously needs to dump Nash. Compliance buyout if necessary. Move Kreider for Spezza. Don't take the bait on Thornton unless we're talking Shawn to play 4th line. Forget the ROR talk because it's not realistic. Extend Staal before he runs to his brothers. Sign Fayne from the Debbie's. Would be Sathers best offseason in recent memory.

Pouliot Spezza Zucc (could be one of the best top lines in hockey)
Brassard Stepan JT
Hags Richards St Louis
Dorsett Boyle Thornton

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Fayne
Klein Moore

King

Use the last compliance on Richards. Absolutely no question. Nash is good for 30 goals over a regular season. Richards is a question mark for anything any season. He might play well, he might not. Plus, the recapture penalties now mean that the team would take an enormous risk by not buying him out.

Kreider is one of the most key components of the speed game that has served this team so well. He's also a kid who is about to start a second contract. Spezza is older, slower, more expensive, and more injury prone.

Staal's brothers are likely not even going to be together in Carolina next season.

I'd lose it if Sather had that offseason. There is no case, ever, in which I want to see Pouliot on the top line or three centers together on the second line.

 

[Ail]

I like this. at worst, it's a marginal upgrade. At best, it's a good couple steps towards contending to the finals again

It's also very unrealistic, all things considered.

 

[The Broadway Hat]

You can never have enough centers. Easy to go from center to wing. Pouliot with Spezza on top line would allow so much creativity for Zucc to sneak in and have a potential 35-40 goal season. I truly believe that.

 

[The Broadway Hat]

Garth?

Wayne?

 

[RGY]

I'd actually love Joe Thornton on this team. I just wouldn't give up anything of value to get him. Therein lies the conundrum.

This.

There is no way I deal Marc Staal for Joe Thornton. Sorry. Marc Staal is a #3 defenseman on this team and could be a #2 on other NHL teams with his shutdown ability. I thought Staal was solid throughout the playoffs. Him and Stralman were great.

I don't know what it would take to get Jumbo Joe but I think Sather gets him on his terms at the best deal possible.

I know many are weary of Joe T because he is 34, but he can still produce at a #1 center level and he is very, very good friends with Rick Nash.

 

[Dfence033]

I like this. at worst, it's a marginal upgrade. At best, it's a good couple steps towards contending to the finals again

I think the biggest push-back I was expecting was the amount of turnover in a SCF team. However, with this many UFA/RFA's this year and next, I'd argue that it's unavoidable to have an inordinate amount, especially if the team has designs on being competitive for the long-haul after this stretch. Glad to see it wasn't immediately tossed aside as crap...

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I don't think it is that he is not worth $6M...

It's that on our team, where Ryan McDonough is our top defenseman at $4.7M, it does not make sense to have a $6M #2 defensemen undernead McDonough...

If McD did not exist then I would be all for keeping Staal, but given what he'll command (Girardi money at the least), and what he brings to the table (Shutdown defense + minimal offense), and his durability issues (yes, his injuries are freak accidents, but they've taken their toll on him in some ways), it makes sense to jettison him now.

Staal just had an awesome playoff run... his value is at an all time high, even with the injuries... he's also a #1 LD on about 22-24 other teams in this league, so lets not act like Staal blows chunks.

Those are the reasons why it makes sense to move him now. it's a risk, but this is, in fact, looking towards the future (for all you "WE NEEDDZZZ THE PIKSSSZ!!" fans on here)

It is an odd thing, and I'm sure you know this anyway, but the reason McDonagh's contract is such a bargain and Staal won't be is where they were and what rights (for lack of a better word) they had as players at the different stages in their careers.

McDonagh was an RFA (did he has arbitration rights? I can't recall off the top of my head) and Staal is going to be a UFA. So with McDonagh we didn't have to bid against anyone else. But, Staal, we will have to be bidding against the rest of the league. He will be able to get more as a UFA on the open market. If McDonagh were a UFA, he could get the stars and the moon. 7+ million.

 

[Dfence033]

It's also very unrealistic, all things considered.

Ail, you do a lot of posting, a lot of which I agree with, so I'm especially interested in why you think this is very unrealistic. Is it the turnover or the actual value?

 

[Elvis Presley]

I don't do the trade-proposal things very often (nor do I post all that often), but I've been playing around with two trades that could reshape the team to be a combination of the 2012 all-lines-in mentality, and the 2014 possession/speed game.

I've seen a Staal+ for Kadri+Gardiner trade floated several times. Depending on what that plus is, I think that should be a target, followed by an outside the box idea:

Rick Nash + Derek Dorsett + Danny Kristo to the Predators for Colin Wilson (C/W who hasn't produced the way they wanted him to, and seems to have fallen out of favor a bit), Viktor Stalberg (had a bad year in Nashville, and is overpaid, but a previous possession monster with tons of speed, but mostly here to offset salary and look for a rebound in a system more suited to where he produced well), and Craig Smith (C/W who's biggest moment of notoriety occurred when he missed an open net by shooting high from 4 feet away, but a good 2C two-way player with offensive upside of 20+ goals, 50+ points).

The Rangers need a few things: One, to shed some salary to keep certain players around (Boyle, Moore, Stralman, Zuke, more next year, etc.). To gain some more mobility and offense from the back-end. To keep up with their speed/possession game, while adding some size. And to get some right-handed shots.

Gardiner provides more mobility and offense than Staal, albeit with a decline in defensive abilities. Kadri provides the offensive punch to replace what Richards' (hopeful) buyout will lose.

Craig Smith scored 24 goals and 52 points last year, while playing two-way hockey in the Nashville system, is only 24 years old, and right-handed. Colin Wilson is a prime break-out candidate, has size, can play C or W, and is only 24. Viktor Stalberg is a prime bounce-back candidate, and in a similar system in Chicago, was a 20 goal, 40 point possession and speed monster.

The Rangers lose their main offensive threat in Nash, and go back to a more team-based approach that served them well in 2012, until the shot-blocking and 3 minute Bickel ran them out of gas. They also gain more size, speed, and possession ability, and lose more than enough cap space to resign everyone this year (and next):

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.851m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Craig Smith ($2.000m)
Colin Wilson ($2.000m) / Derick Brassard ($4.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Brian Boyle ($2.250m) / Dominic Moore ($1.700m) / Viktor Stalberg ($3.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.827m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)Wil
SALARY CAP: $69,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,668,208; BONUSES: $591,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,831,792

How bad or off-value is this?

I think this is actually on a great track. The main issue I'd have is with all the if's. I'd take a chance on Kadri. Wilson has potential, and Stalberg I don't necessarily have an issue with. But two main pieces (Kadri, Wilson) show much uncertainty.

All in all, I'd def consider it and feel good about something like this.

 

[haveandare]

I want none of any of these big money centers. It's not going to be possible to keep most of this team together with them, and that's a high priority for me.

A deal for Kadri and Gardiner is very interesting. It gets them young, cheap pieces who can also play decent possession games, which is exactly what they need. Can't help but wonder what that would take. I'd guess Staal + prospect, but that's also a good bit of Toronto's future, so I could see it being more than that. Then again, who can ever tell what that team is thinking? Kind of leary of losing any prospects when they already have so few, but some would be more palatable than others for that return.

In theory, if I didn't do this incorrectly, they could trade Staal + prospect for Kadri and Gardiner, and resign literally everybody, including recreating this year's fourth line, and keeping Stralman.

If that's correct, it's hard to say no to that possibility. Unforunately, it doesn't sound like a Sather move.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Why is Staal getting a big pay day? I don't understand this. Is offence is terrible, he does not rush up ice, is passing is quite awful, is decision making is suspect, he is not very physical, please tell me why he is getting pay big time?

Because he is a defenseman and is very very good at playing defense.

An art that seems to be lost on this board.

 

[Ail]

Ail, you do a lot of posting, a lot of which I agree with, so I'm especially interested in why you think this is very unrealistic. Is it the turnover or the actual value?

Haha, that's probably a first.

Well first the + on the Staal trade is likely going to be another roster player. So you have to consider maybe another player like Hagelin could be gone. I don't think Staal and a prospect lands those two.

The second trade is just too many moving parts. I don't think you would see something like that right now. It's a lot of roster turnover from both trades. That aside I would bet my pension Rick Nash will not be traded. He is way more important to this team than most here give him credit for. I don't hate that return, but I don't think it is great either. Too many question marks.

AV has made it somewhat clear he intends to use prospects to try and fill some of the roster. They are going to give a few guys long looks this year. This roster leaves no room for that outside injury.

Lastly there is no way Boyle is back unless he was bluffing for more money.

 

[acapps10]

O'Reilly needs to be our top target. We need to get better down the middle and he is significantly younger and more defensively responsible then Thornton and Spezza. The thought of either of those guys on the Rangers makes me sick.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Realistically what is a fair value deal for Joe Thornton? The Rangers are NOT rebuilding (much to the chagrin of some) this team is a contender in the Eastern Conference next season. (Although some people would like to forget that less then a week ago the team was playing for the ****ing Stanley Cup)


Thornton would help Nash, would lesson the pressure on Stepan, and could POSSIBLY put this team over the top.

I just can't figure out what San Jose would want. Are the Sharks really in salary dump mode?

Now, I know the same posters will talk about his age, will pretend this is 1998-2004...etc. I don't care, if you want the Rangers to improve you have to add better players. Younger does not necessarily mean better and this team, this organization, is not in a position to take a step backwards.