Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II
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That was a long time ago, and Thornton was a different player back then. Hes a #1C and I think he and Nash would not only work well together, but both have a lot to prove. Its a typical Sather move, especially if the rumors are true and Thornton would only come to NY.
Unfortunately I think Staal is the only piece thats enticing enough to complete that sort of trade, and I hate what losing Staal does to the defense.
Hitch16
Easily Triggered
Thanks for the reply Broadway - that was exactly what I was thinking. I'd love a Ryan O'Reilly type of player but at what cost. I was trying to take the angle of keeping most of the team and maybe bridging to the kids. Unfortunately, the cap space is limited. Hagelin, Stepan are due in 2015 I believe?
I may be in the minority here, but i'm willing to give the management team, scouting staff, and player development team that has managed to put together two teams that have gone at least as far as the Conference Final two of the last three years, including a run that just saw the Rangers in the Stanley Cup Final where 3 of the 4 loses were in OT, two of them in double OT.
Off the top of my head, the Rangers are one of only two Eastern Conference teams to do something like that in that time frame. The Bruins being the other.
Is it possible that Sather, Gorton, Shoenfeld will make a mistake? Sure. But let's put things in perspective a little bit, and wait to see what happens before all the negativity.
It's possible that they put together a better team this time around. Let's see.
Only a couple weeks till the draft. Hopefully we as fans make a nice showing in Philly to support our team at the draft.
We just came 3 wins shy of the Cup.
Off the top of my head, the Rangers are one of only two Eastern Conference teams to do something like that in that time frame. The Bruins being the other.
Is it possible that Sather, Gorton, Shoenfeld will make a mistake? Sure. But let's put things in perspective a little bit, and wait to see what happens before all the negativity.
It's possible that they put together a better team this time around. Let's see.
Only a couple weeks till the draft. Hopefully we as fans make a nice showing in Philly to support our team at the draft.
We just came 3 wins shy of the Cup.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
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We're not advocating keeping Stralman because he's lighting the world up offensively (even though I think he should be taking G's point on the second powerplay unit), but it's because he's one of our best possession players. He's so calm with the puck in the defensive zone, and he always makes a good breakout pass. Losing him would severely hinder our neutral zone transitions, which prevents the forwards from playing off their strengths on the rush. Stralman is as much of an imperative re-sign as Zucc and Kreider are.
The more I look at it, the more I like the idea of trading for Kadri and Gardiner.
Well said.
I just hope the management team isn't throwing Staal into every trade proposal for any player that might be available to help the offense. That is becoming an epidemic around here, and a poorly thought out one at that.
People have absolutely no concept of what D-Men are supposed to do these days. He gets no PP time and is not there to score.
He is a fantastic player. He moves the puck safely out of the zone. He did it against the Kings with ease. The guy is a very good player and we will be significantly hurt losing him, especially without a replacement.
Can't quantify what Stralman does for this team by looking at stats.
Looking at the entire playoff run, Stralman was by far our most steady defenseman. I'd argue the same for the 11-12 playoff run.
He is a big game player. Winning teams hold onto those players.
By contrast, Marc Staal was arguably our least effective defenseman in the playoffs. His lack of foot speed and inability to make quick decisions with the puck were badly exposed against the Canadiens and Kings.
I ask the question, for a team that thrives in a quick transition, puck possession, and speed, which player is more valuable moving forward?
Stralman thrives in the system Vignault's staff has put together. Staal does not.
Staal is older. Staal will cost more.
IMO the decision is pretty easy from that standpoint.
The hard decision is, who replaces what Staal does provide. Which is a big, strong, shut-down defenseman, when he is on top of his game.
I feel that if we can find a cheaper left handed defenseman, that is sound positionally, and can skate, then we can go ahead and use Staal to upgrade our needs at the center position.
Eventually, you need to deal from a position of strength to improve a need.
McDonagh, Girardi, Stralman, Klein is still a solid defense corp. John Moore will hopefully continue to develop.
Stepan, Brassard, and D. Moore is not goingnto be enough in the middle. We need size there. With brains, and enough skill to help his linemates.
Colin Wilson, Ryan O'Reilly...someone young enough to be part of the long-term core. Just depends on how much they're willing to spend in cap space and assets.
Joe Thornton, Jason Spezza, Paul Stastny...are these guys really what we want/need?
Grabovski is a good player, but same issue as we had against LA, not enough size.
Jeff Gorton is good at finding the out-side the box players.
Looking at the entire playoff run, Stralman was by far our most steady defenseman. I'd argue the same for the 11-12 playoff run.
He is a big game player. Winning teams hold onto those players.
By contrast, Marc Staal was arguably our least effective defenseman in the playoffs. His lack of foot speed and inability to make quick decisions with the puck were badly exposed against the Canadiens and Kings.
I ask the question, for a team that thrives in a quick transition, puck possession, and speed, which player is more valuable moving forward?
Stralman thrives in the system Vignault's staff has put together. Staal does not.
Staal is older. Staal will cost more.
IMO the decision is pretty easy from that standpoint.
The hard decision is, who replaces what Staal does provide. Which is a big, strong, shut-down defenseman, when he is on top of his game.
I feel that if we can find a cheaper left handed defenseman, that is sound positionally, and can skate, then we can go ahead and use Staal to upgrade our needs at the center position.
Eventually, you need to deal from a position of strength to improve a need.
McDonagh, Girardi, Stralman, Klein is still a solid defense corp. John Moore will hopefully continue to develop.
Stepan, Brassard, and D. Moore is not goingnto be enough in the middle. We need size there. With brains, and enough skill to help his linemates.
Colin Wilson, Ryan O'Reilly...someone young enough to be part of the long-term core. Just depends on how much they're willing to spend in cap space and assets.
Joe Thornton, Jason Spezza, Paul Stastny...are these guys really what we want/need?
Grabovski is a good player, but same issue as we had against LA, not enough size.
Jeff Gorton is good at finding the out-side the box players.
Agreed. I would much prefer getting younger and not giving up significant value for a 34 year old player.
You're going to disagree with what I posted after this then.
I would love to hold onto Staal. My main concern isn't management making big mistakes, its more about what limiations they have as far as cap space. And which direction they feel is more of a priority will dictate it, i guess.
Which is why i'm harping on a player like Colin Wilson. Because he could boom into a core piece. And the difference in cap space from a Richards buy-out would allow us to possibly keep more of our key guys, including both Staal and Stralman. And in a more offensive system with more skill around him, he could start putting up good numbers, netting us a player before his breakout.
I'm more anxious than nervous to see how this plays out.
Agree to disagree here. I think it'll be more difficult to replace Staal than Stralman. Who is the mythical defenseman thats supposed to replace Staal on the left side?
Stralman was on the scrap heap a couple years ago and now hes this indispensable part? I dont buy it.
Its not a good position to be in. Both of these guys are going to get paid big time. Stralman this offseason and Staal next offseason. I happen to think Staal is the better player, but I also understand his trade value.
But I also happen to think Klein can step up pretty seamlessly and give this team what Stralman did, which is zero offense and solid defensive play. In fact, I think Klein improved immensely as the playoffs went on.
Maybe they trade Staal for an upgrade at center. Thats a good thing. It also puts John Moore in the top 4 and thats not something I can live with.
Well, we agree on part of it. I agree, i asked the theoretical question, how do we replace Staal if it comes to that.
But, i disagree with that comment about Stralman. He may have struggled to find his game a few years ago, but it happens sometimes, that something clicks, and the player reaches his potential. And, i feel that is what happened with Stralman. He is at the age where defensemen realize their potential. And, i feel that Stralman makes Staal better, just as Staal makes Stralman better.
I'm also concerned about Staal's longevity. He has had some incredable bad luck with injuries.
Again, if we can get that center pre-breakout, on a team freindly contract and lesser assets, maybe we can keep most of our key guys.
I agree, John Moore as the #2 left defenseman is not ideal.
I would be hoping that Gorton finds another gem/diamond in the rough type of thing where we can plug a guy into that hole. Not a flashy guy but positionally educated and quick on his feet.
eco's bones
Registered User
Two things with Staal. The main good reason for trading him is you don't think you can re-sign him. That decision can be kicked down the road for a while--until mid-season anyway. As far as his read and react time--not sure exactly where his vision in his right eye is at or whether it can still improve. Just a guess but I think it's impaired his play a bit. He's still a very good player but he's not as good as he was.
As far as the center options we might deal him for:
Pavelski--I really don't think the Sharks are going to move Pavelski.
Thornton--he's old--he's never been a great playoff performer. The team's he's been on have tended to underachieve come playoff time. He's made disparaging remarks about the Rangers organization in the past--now he wants to play for us?--is it just because we made it to the finals?--does he like Rick Nash that much? I don't know. I'd rather not go older.
Spezza--high $ contract. Injury issues. IMO he's potentially Richards all over again. I wouldn't do it.
Kadri--2nd line center type. A hot and cold player. A bit of a punk IMO and not necesarily in a good way. What I've seen I'm not a fan. Toronto would have to add.
O'Reilly--the one that makes the most sense. He's bent his team over on contract negotiations a couple times already though. He's not an elite center either and sometimes he's been a right wing. Keeping in mind it's almost like adding another player of Stepan's ability. About the same size (maybe a little stockier)--about the same skating (the reason ROR was a 2nd round pick was all about his lack of foot speed). He's defensively alert and more a playmaker than a shooter.
As far as the center options we might deal him for:
Pavelski--I really don't think the Sharks are going to move Pavelski.
Thornton--he's old--he's never been a great playoff performer. The team's he's been on have tended to underachieve come playoff time. He's made disparaging remarks about the Rangers organization in the past--now he wants to play for us?--is it just because we made it to the finals?--does he like Rick Nash that much? I don't know. I'd rather not go older.
Spezza--high $ contract. Injury issues. IMO he's potentially Richards all over again. I wouldn't do it.
Kadri--2nd line center type. A hot and cold player. A bit of a punk IMO and not necesarily in a good way. What I've seen I'm not a fan. Toronto would have to add.
O'Reilly--the one that makes the most sense. He's bent his team over on contract negotiations a couple times already though. He's not an elite center either and sometimes he's been a right wing. Keeping in mind it's almost like adding another player of Stepan's ability. About the same size (maybe a little stockier)--about the same skating (the reason ROR was a 2nd round pick was all about his lack of foot speed). He's defensively alert and more a playmaker than a shooter.
Darren Dreger was on the NHL Network last night. He said Dan Boyle wants a 2 year contract. Dreger believes Boyle can get $5M per for those two years. Paul Stastny wants $6.5M-$7M per. Stastny wants to stay with the Avs. Earlier this week there was a report concerning Andrei Markov wanting 3 years and $6M per. Anton Stralman will get offers in the $4M-$5M range. Does he stay with the Rangers for $4M or bolt for more money? There is a comfort zone for Stralman with the Rangers. He discussed 4 teams in 7 years.
Doug MacLean said Stralman benefited from playing with Staal.
Someone on twitter put up a chart which says the opposite
https://twitter.com/TravisHeHateMe/status/479328672520757248
I like MacLean because he makes fun of Kypreos but is really out to lunch on many issues
Stall will be looking for $6M in his next contract. I really like Staal. Home grown guy. Is he really worth what he will get? 2 concussions. The eye injury. Staal finished the year healthy. Last season of his contract. Now would be the time to trade him. Business.
Doug MacLean said Stralman benefited from playing with Staal.
Someone on twitter put up a chart which says the opposite
https://twitter.com/TravisHeHateMe/status/479328672520757248
I like MacLean because he makes fun of Kypreos but is really out to lunch on many issues
Stall will be looking for $6M in his next contract. I really like Staal. Home grown guy. Is he really worth what he will get? 2 concussions. The eye injury. Staal finished the year healthy. Last season of his contract. Now would be the time to trade him. Business.
I'm not of the opinion that Thornton is the answer but there's no core player in a group of Brassard, J. Moore and Dorsett.
You trade Staal if you don't believe he is worth the asking price. The Rangers determined Callahan wasn't worth his asking price. What does Staal have in common with Callahan? Durability. The Rangers gain nothing by kicking the can down the road. They did it with Lundqvist,Girardi and Callahan last season. It was a distraction. The Rangers waited too long to engage those players in contract discussions. They knew what it was going to cost.
He is being thrown into every trade proposal because it makes sense for many reasons ; Entering his free agent year, not the shut down D man he once was, provides little to no offense, has perceived value around the league, did not have a great playoff, frees up money to sign Stralman.
People are talking about acquiring guys like ROR, Spezza, Thornton, etc. You aren't getting players like that by offering Jon Moore, Krsito, and a 3rd round pick. You have to give up some value and Staal is a logical candidate to be moved.
Of course they could basically stand pat..Buy out Richards, re sign Stralman, sign a guy like Legwand, hope Brassard can play like a #2, and wait for kids to develop, but that is not going to end well. The biggest mistake teams that have success make is standing pat and thinking they have the perfect mix. There is too much luck involved in a deep run to ever think that way. Despite what anyone thinks or may want, this is a win now team with a 2-3 year window to do some more damage. There are many good players available this summer. I feel like we need to get a center even if that means parting with someone like Staal.
I agree with this. I think Staal, more often than not, helped make Stralman a better defenseman, and the pairing better. I don't think it works the other way around. That doesn't mean Staal is beyond being traded, but I think he's the best defensive defenseman the team has and is entering the prime of his career and seems on track having recovered from a serious injury and my expectation is for him to improve even more this coming season.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
I like Staal but he doesn't fit AV's system at all. His already suspect puck skills have been further diminished by his eye injury. He is also a major injury waiting to happen. He will be overpaid for what he brings. If we can package him to get ROR or Kadri and Gardiner, we should do it.
It makes sense if you're downplaying Staal's abilities and blinded by the need to improve the offense. He is a chip to get offense. I get that. Perhaps the only chip.
That said, I hate what the defense looks like without him.
Are you sure? Because stats seem to be what have propelled him to be "invaluable" to the team. He went from steady #4 to "OMG PUCK POSSESSION GOD BETTER THAN GIRARDI" once the moneypuck stats started making the rounds.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
PAP was on the scrap heap for us. Turned himself into a valuable player for the NYI and COL for a while. It does happen.
Does any part of this chart take into consideration the fact that "apart" generally means Staal was playing 2nd pairing minutes with Del Zotto, and Stralman was playing on the 3rd pairing? Just curious.
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