Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II
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haveandare
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I'd guess that it's all coming down to the Richards decision, and then the decision of who they want to play 2C next year if not him.
Once that's settled, everything with domino IMO.
As Brooklyn Rangers Fan suggested, I wouldn't mind trying to find an option that's shrewd and under the radar.
ROR has been the fascinating choice, but there is a very clear problem that he presents if we traded for him.
You can't hardball your home grown players and then trade for another guy of similar skill set and age and give in to his demands.
For me, it's not as much trading the asset we would need to trade for him (and the more I think of it, the more a 1 for 1 Staal for ROR trade seems pertinent and feasible to me), it's more about the type of situation that this management and locker room would have to somehow mitigate. And by all accounts, to forecast how something may go down in the future, you look at the trend(s) that precede it.
For ROR, the trend is a guy who is trying to hold out for as much money as possible. As I said yesterday, my friend works for the Avs. He watches them pretty religiously. His take on the ROR contract? "He's trying to capitalize on his value before people realize he isn't worth 6.5 million. He's a great 2c and an unreal 3c, he's a better Callahan".
Would Callahan be worth 6 million if he wasn't a veteran, captain, and proven commodity? Probably not. He was on a rookie contract at the age of 23. 4.8 mill after. Now looking for his big pay day.
Again, how do you justify giving in to someone's demands when you've been hardballing your home grown guys along the way? You don't. The Rangers were chastised for doing this several years ago. The locker room swiftly fell apart following the report.
So, for me, it's all about opportunity. RB was on here talking about the packages that the Canucks and the Senators were looking for Spezza and Kesler. Both of them, at this stage of their careers, are 2nd line players. Both are injury risks. Kesler is turning 30 before the start of the next season. He has 2 years left on his contract. Spezza is 31 for the entirety of next season, he's a UFA after this upcoming season.
Staal is 28. Same injury risk as both. Arguably more dominant than both in relativity to his position. He's worth a lot. Spezza and him have the impending UFA status coming up. Isn't stopping the Senators from asking for the moon. Shouldn't stop the Rangers.
Can Staal get you that under the radar acquisition? The Senators need stability on their defense. Could a trade centering a package around Staal and Zibanejad work? Zibanejad is 21 and projects to be a 2c, maybe even a 1c. How about a 3 way trade that lands Staal somewhere and lands us Scheifele from WPG?
What about Bobby Ryan? No one is talking about him, and he's likely a FA after this year. You could trade for him and extend him before he inevitably decides to bolt for the Flyers and potentially haunt us for years.
Several options. Get grittier. Add more scoring efficiency. Maximize value on assets that aren't necessarily the best fit on your team.
ROR has been the fascinating choice, but there is a very clear problem that he presents if we traded for him.
You can't hardball your home grown players and then trade for another guy of similar skill set and age and give in to his demands.
For me, it's not as much trading the asset we would need to trade for him (and the more I think of it, the more a 1 for 1 Staal for ROR trade seems pertinent and feasible to me), it's more about the type of situation that this management and locker room would have to somehow mitigate. And by all accounts, to forecast how something may go down in the future, you look at the trend(s) that precede it.
For ROR, the trend is a guy who is trying to hold out for as much money as possible. As I said yesterday, my friend works for the Avs. He watches them pretty religiously. His take on the ROR contract? "He's trying to capitalize on his value before people realize he isn't worth 6.5 million. He's a great 2c and an unreal 3c, he's a better Callahan".
Would Callahan be worth 6 million if he wasn't a veteran, captain, and proven commodity? Probably not. He was on a rookie contract at the age of 23. 4.8 mill after. Now looking for his big pay day.
Again, how do you justify giving in to someone's demands when you've been hardballing your home grown guys along the way? You don't. The Rangers were chastised for doing this several years ago. The locker room swiftly fell apart following the report.
So, for me, it's all about opportunity. RB was on here talking about the packages that the Canucks and the Senators were looking for Spezza and Kesler. Both of them, at this stage of their careers, are 2nd line players. Both are injury risks. Kesler is turning 30 before the start of the next season. He has 2 years left on his contract. Spezza is 31 for the entirety of next season, he's a UFA after this upcoming season.
Staal is 28. Same injury risk as both. Arguably more dominant than both in relativity to his position. He's worth a lot. Spezza and him have the impending UFA status coming up. Isn't stopping the Senators from asking for the moon. Shouldn't stop the Rangers.
Can Staal get you that under the radar acquisition? The Senators need stability on their defense. Could a trade centering a package around Staal and Zibanejad work? Zibanejad is 21 and projects to be a 2c, maybe even a 1c. How about a 3 way trade that lands Staal somewhere and lands us Scheifele from WPG?
What about Bobby Ryan? No one is talking about him, and he's likely a FA after this year. You could trade for him and extend him before he inevitably decides to bolt for the Flyers and potentially haunt us for years.
Several options. Get grittier. Add more scoring efficiency. Maximize value on assets that aren't necessarily the best fit on your team.
Well, at least in most of your "disagreements," they remain civil. Admirable, especially for this place, at times. After hearing the media about Gardiner and Kadri, I'm not so sure it'd be a significant piece to grab them both in addition to Staal. Gardiner was thrown under the bus, healthy-scratched, and was considered for a position change to forward. To top off that suck-salad for him, he is an RFA, reducing his value. Kadri, on the other hand, is the big piece coming back for Staal. Gardiner is a very welcome addition, but the value, at least to me, is that Staal is worth more than Kadri, but not so much more than Kadri and the rights to Gardiner. Staal + one of Talbot/Lindberg/Fast seems to be fair value for an RFA, but that may be way off base. Again, I don't do these very often.
I agree that the second is a ton of moving parts, especially when combined with the first. These two trades alone turnover 5 roster players and a pair of prospects. However... The Rangers currently have 6 players signed beyond this next season, one of which is a heavy buyout consideration. They have 10 UFA's between this year and next, and will surely get hit with some cap-casualties. Is the cost of signing 4 of those UFA's and the RFA's (of which there are 8 in the next two years), the other 6 roster players? That's even MORE turnover than I've proposed. I tried to minimize the moving parts over a two-year period in my proposal, so that while it appears to be a lot at once, it is actually less than the Rangers are set to see just with their own free-agents, otherwise.
As much as I hate the idea, I agree that Boyle is most likely not back, but these trade proposals allow the space to bring him back, even at an increased hit, and have more room to play with. If they choose to fill his role with an even cheaper player, they have over $5 million in capspace next year alone. Plenty of room to give raises to the RFA's and keep the future UFA's, and keep a team together long-term instead of this massive year-to-year turnover the Rangers keep setting themselves up for.
I believe the Rangers need a #1 center. I am shocked we did as well as we did without one. Stepan will grow into one, maybe Brassard too. But there both at best #2 centers.
Theres a laundry list of #1 centers on the market but most of them, like Thornton, is available only through trade. I do not have any one in mind to give up for such a guy. I dont want to get rid of Miller who is still just a prospect. Our #1 pick a few years back still has a ton of room to grow and I think is still on that a strong path to the NHL. Why get rid of a guy who can potentially be our top 6 forward for years to come for a expensive, old grizzly veteran like Joe who will only be with us for about 3 years. And it wouldnt be enough anyway... even if I did agree to get rid of Miller. Then who? Some people say Staal... uh no. If Staal wants to stay, we keep him. We keep him because depth at the defensive end is so valuable to this team.
Maybe Ryan O'reilly is available. they keep bringing him to court to settle financial differences. I do like ROR but once again I wouldnt give up Miller and Staal. Maybe I would just trade Nash for O'Reilly straight up. Nash is a floater, ROR is not at all. IDk if he is a #1 center either but at least we will have 3 solid centers, get rid of Nash's overpaid cap space and use it to by a more valued winger. At least ROR is a guy who can replace Nash on the PK. We make the trade straight up, and resign ROR.
As for Boyle and Moore. I see us resigning Moore a whole lot more than Boyle. Boyle can get more $ elsewhere, and a better role like he desires. Moore we can probably keep for 1.25 for 3 years.
Theres a laundry list of #1 centers on the market but most of them, like Thornton, is available only through trade. I do not have any one in mind to give up for such a guy. I dont want to get rid of Miller who is still just a prospect. Our #1 pick a few years back still has a ton of room to grow and I think is still on that a strong path to the NHL. Why get rid of a guy who can potentially be our top 6 forward for years to come for a expensive, old grizzly veteran like Joe who will only be with us for about 3 years. And it wouldnt be enough anyway... even if I did agree to get rid of Miller. Then who? Some people say Staal... uh no. If Staal wants to stay, we keep him. We keep him because depth at the defensive end is so valuable to this team.
Maybe Ryan O'reilly is available. they keep bringing him to court to settle financial differences. I do like ROR but once again I wouldnt give up Miller and Staal. Maybe I would just trade Nash for O'Reilly straight up. Nash is a floater, ROR is not at all. IDk if he is a #1 center either but at least we will have 3 solid centers, get rid of Nash's overpaid cap space and use it to by a more valued winger. At least ROR is a guy who can replace Nash on the PK. We make the trade straight up, and resign ROR.
As for Boyle and Moore. I see us resigning Moore a whole lot more than Boyle. Boyle can get more $ elsewhere, and a better role like he desires. Moore we can probably keep for 1.25 for 3 years.
I imagine that the Sharks keep Thornton for this upcoming year. All this babble doesn't seem realistic to me. Just people venting steam.
silverfish
got perma'd
This is the worst armchair GM I've seen, and this guy gets paid to write about hockey 
http://capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/25828
Zuccarello - $1,750,000... LOL, I wish.
Who's he trading for Thornton?
Comes from this article, Scott Cullen, TSN
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=455219
http://capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/25828
Zuccarello - $1,750,000... LOL, I wish.
Who's he trading for Thornton?
Comes from this article, Scott Cullen, TSN
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=455219
This is the worst armchair GM I've seen, and this guy gets paid to write about hockey
http://capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/25828
Zuccarello - $1,750,000... LOL, I wish.
Who's he trading for Thornton?
Comes from this article, Scott Cullen, TSN
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=455219
That's a gross overpayment for Zucc. This guy is clueless.
Yeah there's pretty much no way they would make that many moves in an offseason
6 players? Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon, 1st for Nash is 5.
Brassard, Dorsett, Moore, 6th for Gaborik is 5.
Callahan, 1st, 1st for St. Louis is 4 (if he re-signs, it's 6).
That's 14 players moving in the last 14 months. The Rangers have 10 UFAs and 8 RFAs in the next two years, with only 6 players on contract beyond next season (one of whom is Brad Richards, a likely buyout).
6 players isn't a ton, when the alternative is potentially 10-12. The Rangers are up against the Cap as it is, and have 18 more people to give raises to or replace. Again, I know it looks like a lot, but the team has placed itself in this position where it needs to get creative. Either they dumpster-dive and hope to hit on another Pouloit (except for 6-8 more valuable roster spots), or something has to give... I'm not as in love with the Rangers's prospects as most, and I don't see immediate help coming anytime soon for these players, otherwise.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
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Staal is an interesting situation. Keep him and you're overpaying a guy to be our 2nd pairing LHD. Trade him and 2nd pair LHD is a huge hole.
Out of all supposed center targets, Ryan O'Reilly is the best fit for this team. Future Selke candidate that'll get you 40-50 points a year at least. The Rangers are a team built on balance and a great goalie. They simply can't afford Thornton or Spezza without gutting the roster and with so much money invested in goal and on defense.
Out of all supposed center targets, Ryan O'Reilly is the best fit for this team. Future Selke candidate that'll get you 40-50 points a year at least. The Rangers are a team built on balance and a great goalie. They simply can't afford Thornton or Spezza without gutting the roster and with so much money invested in goal and on defense.
Why? They haven't even been done with the season for a week.
This is an organization that tries to allure players not only through money and geographic appeal but through acting like a first class organization.
Kreider just tweeted it was a pleasure to play for such a "first class organization".
They have time to buy him out, and i'm sure they're giving Brad time to collect his bearings emotionally before they buy him out.
Everyone knows it's going to happen. No point in embarrassing the man by doing it as quickly as possible. That would be so distasteful and disrespectful, throwing him as soon as they could. It's not like they can do anything with the cap space now anyway. Talk about a slap in the face. I'm glad they haven't done it yet.
Not really..they have time and their going to use it to look for the right way to make/keep a roster that can win a cup
Moves I see happening:
Kesler being traded to Anaheim for a young defender, one of their young 3rd/4th line wingers, and a draft pick.
Spezza being traded to St. Louis or Dallas for a similar package.
Staal being traded for our future solution at 1/2c.
Kakko
Formerly Chytil
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,975
- 13,635
I think Kesler and Spezza switch places. St. Louis seems to have an American fetish.
I can't really think of any top 6 center under a cap friendly deal that Staal would go for. Any ideas?
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,975
- 13,635
That would be the smart thing to do.
Same with Boyle. If he's demanding a ludicrous amount of money, some team would give up a middle rounder for his rights. Swing for the fences with those extra picks. There's room to pick "safe" players that way as well.
I dunno. I wouldn't totally be opposed to sending him to Colorado for ROR. Think it's an ideal move for both clubs.
If not that, then I'd love to see some sort of under the radar move with him. Maybe to like Minnesota or Ottawa or some other team that could offer good young players for his services.
Spezza's cap hit is significantly higher than Keslers. For the Blues, a team that operates under a tighter cap limitation, that is problematic.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Regarding the conversation earlier re: Girardi (Directed at others.)
Maybe they'll just keep letting him ride with McDonagh on the other hand, because that's where he can play to his strengths without being too much of a liability.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Yeah pretty much. If they aren't signing these guys their rights have value. Especially Stralman.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
I certainly concur there is an inevitable amount of roster turnover looming with this team, however I feel they are going to try for one more crack at it with as many of these players as possible, and so will keep dealing, or not signing, them to a minimum.
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