Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

[SupersonicMonkey*]

The only thing with O'Reilly that scares me is the cap hit that comes along with signing him (even though I know it's manageable.)

That's why I'm pushing for a more cost-controlled player that won't hinder our cap this year while allowing us to re-sign our core free agents. That's why I agree with going for someone like Kadri, Colin Wilson,or maybe even Cody Hodgson.

Also, my stat before for Kadri was incorrect. What I meant to say was over the last four seasons, the 5v5 close primary points/60!(goals + primary assists) Kadri is ranked 5th behind Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, and Toews. And on top of this, he has good possession numbers. If he wasn't playing under a bumble**** of a coach in Carlyle, I really think this kid can reach a whole nother level of play.

Here's the article about the stat I mentioned, and it lists the top 50 in that category:

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/06/19/5v5close-primary-points-per-60-minutes-leaders/

Kadri is another player that is interesting. Another player that could become a core piece.

 

[Tawnos]

O'reilly would be a solid addition to our center corps, for sure. Losing Staal would have a bigger negative effect on the defense than most people realize, however.

But you touched on the thing with ROR. His contract. He makes $6.5M per now, not because hes a great/elite player, but because he strong armed his way there. Everyone is so concerned about overpaying Staal, but the coming over payment for O'Reilly would be just as egregious, if not more so.

Im also VERY skeptical he'd reach 60 points here without the top shelf offensive talent that Colorado has.

Good player, but just another example of a guy who seems to look way better because hes not a Ranger.

Not that I don't disagree with the heart of this post, but I feel like I should point out something. $6.5m is not a contract for a great or elite player on the open market anymore. It's a little inflated from what he might have gotten as a UFA, but it's a lot closer to fair market value than what he would have gotten on a typical bridge deal. And that was at the time. He lived up to it, but he has to realize that he's not getting much, if anything, more than that on the open market or via arbitration. Pavelski signed a $6m contract with fairly similar numbers, at the time, to ROR now. $6.5m is and was not an overpayment... except if you compare it to players signing longer term with front-loading or contracts from 5 years ago.

 

[Raspewtin]

This is the problem I'm having bud. I want to come here to read/discuss realities but evey thread turns into trade Rick Nash or overpay for 2nd line center ROR. It's disgusting. The obsession with ROR is ridiculous. I'd rather have Stastny and I dont even want him.

Listen I'm not happy with Nash's playoff stats but the reality is he did play well. He was effective. He played some great PK minutes which I never thought he would do. He was skating hard and he started to be more forceful from the MTL series on. Unfortunately there werent any goals but I want that guy here. I think he will be very good next year. To get that close, not score and not win the cup, i think he will have a fire under his ass.

And I really think Sather tries to get Joe Thornton now that Richards is gone. I also think with Boyle going, the Rangers look at Shawn Thornton.

If you'd rather have Stastny, you don't watch ROR.

And I'd MUCH rather have a very young, great, 2 way center for 6.5 mill than a guy who gives it his all every 3 games for 7.8 mill.

 

[Ail]

If we can trade Nash to NYI for that 5th overall pick we draft Draisaitl/Del Colle and re-sign our entire team.

Yeah then we just ease that lottery ticket right in to the top-RW spot, the PK, the PP and ask it to play against the toughest competition in the league.

The 'Cup is ours!

 

[RGY]

If you'd rather have Stastny, you don't watch ROR.

And I'd MUCH rather have a very young, great, 2 way center for 6.5 mill than a guy who gives it his all every 3 games for 7.8 mill.

I've seen RoR play. He is a good player but not to the level that some here are making him out to be. I'm not sold on him. I'd rather have Marc Staal.

 

[Ail]

As far as all this center business goes, if they're going to try and go out and make some big roster move, it had better be a Kadri, RoR or similar player and not a Spezza, Thornton, Stastny.

 

[Tawnos]

I'd prefer Kadri over ROR for 3 reasons.

1.) He'd come cheaper, both in assets and salary
2.) I think ROR is what he is offensively and I think Kadri has room to grow. Kadri is the more creative of the two
3.) Kadri is a far better skater than ROR

They're also equally effective on the powerplay.

 

[GAGLine]

Not that I don't disagree with the heart of this post, but I feel like I should point out something. $6.5m is not a contract for a great or elite player on the open market anymore. It's a little inflated from what he might have gotten as a UFA, but it's a lot closer to fair market value than what he would have gotten on a typical bridge deal. And that was at the time. He lived up to it, but he has to realize that he's not getting much, if anything, more than that on the open market or via arbitration. Pavelski signed a $6m contract with fairly similar numbers, at the time, to ROR now. $6.5m is and was not an overpayment... except if you compare it to players signing longer term with front-loading or contracts from 5 years ago.

If Stepan were up for a new contract this year, would 6.5 mil per be reasonable?

 

[GAGLine]

And I'd MUCH rather have a very young, great, 2 way center for 6.5 mill than a guy who gives it his all every 3 games for 7.8 mill.

That might mean something if we had the option to trade Nash for ROR.

 

[Tawnos]

If Stepan were up for a new contract this year, would 6.5 mil per be reasonable?

As a UFA? $6.5m might be pushing it. $6m would be.

 

[GAGLine]

As a UFA? $6.5m might be pushing it. $6m would be.

So how is 6.5m not an overpayment for ROR? He's an RFA. He has less points than Stepan in more games played.

 

[Tawnos]

So how is 6.5m not an overpayment for ROR? He's an RFA. He has less points than Stepan in more games played.

RFA value is not open market value. I said ROR isn't overpaid for the open market, which is essentially where he got that contract from. Also, previous 3 seasons is a better evaluator than full career.

 

[GAGLine]

RFA value is not open market value. I said ROR isn't overpaid for the open market, which is essentially where he got that contract from. Also, previous 3 seasons is a better evaluator than full career.

Who cares about open market value? He's an RFA. That's what his value is.

Last 3 seasons?

Stepan: 212 games, 52 goals, 100 assists, 152 points
ROR: 190 games, 52 goals, 87 assists, 139 points

Again, if Stepan doesn't deserve 6.5 as a UFA (your words), how in the world is ROR not overpaid?

Edit: The only reason ROR got that contract is because none of the people involved knew the rules regarding waivers.

 

[Tawnos]

Who cares about open market value? He's an RFA. That's what his value is.

Last 3 seasons?

Stepan: 212 games, 52 goals, 100 assists, 152 points
ROR: 190 games, 52 goals, 87 assists, 139 points

Again, if Stepan doesn't deserve 6.5 as a UFA (your words), how in the world is ROR not overpaid?

You do realize that he got that deal on the open market, right? RFAs are underpaid. The system is designed for most players to be in that situation. I said it was a little inflated because you have to do that to have a prayer at getting past a team's ability to match. So, incorporating the offer sheet inflation, he's not overpaid. You gotta take all parts of the way the deal was signed into account. It's like you read the last sentence of that post and decided that was all I had written.

Last 3 seasons:

Stepan: 0.717 PPG
ROR: 0.732 PPG

Edit to respond to edit: It doesn't matter that they didn't realize the waiver rules. The deal was signed as if those rules did not exist, giving an indication of where the market was valuing him.

 

[Fugazy]

I'd be fine with either ROR or Kadri. Just give me a young, talented center with some room left to grow. Not someone on the wrong side 30.

 

[MrEctions]

I have a sickening feeling were going to end up with Jumbo Joe. Im not ok with it.

 

[xChrisTilDeathx]

Am I the only one that thinks brass is better then Step? All these possible trade proposals involve Brass as a bartering chip, but he actually has the skill to compete in this league. I dont think you can say that about Step. All everyone talks about is his "hockey I.Q." and i believe thats important, but you can have all the brains in the world and if you dont have the skill to do anything with the puck its worthless.

I'd be down for all these trade proposals and ideas, however using Step instead of Brass.

 

[Fugazy]

I have a sickening feeling were going to end up with Jumbo Joe. Im not ok with it.

Me neither. Especially if you have to trade fairly significant assets for him.

 

[Raspewtin]

Am I the only one that thinks brass is better then Step? All these possible trade proposals involve Brass as a bartering chip, but he actually has the skill to compete in this league. I dont think you can say that about Step. All everyone talks about is his "hockey I.Q." and i believe thats important, but you can have all the brains in the world and if you dont have the skill to do anything with the puck its worthless.

I'd be down for all these trade proposals and ideas, however using Step instead of Brass.

This post is so stupid it doesn't even deserve a legitimate response.

But, yes, you are absolutely the only one who thinks that.

 

[haveandare]

Am I the only one that thinks brass is better then Step? All these possible trade proposals involve Brass as a bartering chip, but he actually has the skill to compete in this league. I dont think you can say that about Step. All everyone talks about is his "hockey I.Q." and i believe thats important, but you can have all the brains in the world and if you dont have the skill to do anything with the puck its worthless.

I'd be down for all these trade proposals and ideas, however using Step instead of Brass.

Stepan clearly has the skill to compete in this league. Not only is he worlds ahead of Brass defensively, but he also produces more against far harder competition.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He lead the Avs with 55 points two years ago. Better than Duchene and Landeskog.

I don't, at all think his points are a result of playing with talent.

Its part of the equation.

Care to address his hold out? And how hes massively overpaid now? And how he will cost someone like Staal? And how O'Reilly will only make more money going forward?

Pass.

 

[Cassano]

Could Staal return Hertl in a trade? Perhaps Couture if the Rangers added? Pavelski is 3rd choice and I think everyone is against adding Thornton.

 

[Mikos87]

Also ROR is aiming to UFA at age 25 with an even bigger contract than his current 6.5M... does that make him a longer term solution than a Joe Thornton or Jason Spezza? I don't know...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Could Staal return Hertl in a trade? Perhaps Couture if the Rangers added? Pavelski is 3rd choice and I think everyone is against adding Thornton.

Not against acquiring Thornton at all.

I am if it involves trading Staal, however. And I dont know what else we could possibly offer.

 

[Raspewtin]

Its part of the equation.

Care to address his hold out? And how hes massively overpaid now? And how he will cost someone like Staal? And how O'Reilly will only make more money going forward?

Pass.

His hold out, what do you want me to say? He wanted a lot of money after being the best player on the Avs that year? I remember during Stepan's holdout you said you had no problem with what he was doing.

He's massively overpaid now? ********. He plays Selke caliber defense and just scored 60+ points, at the age of 23. That's, at worst, slightly overpaid.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on Staal. I love Staal but I would trade him for ROR.

So, ROR will make more money as he gets better, and as contract values go up? No way! Coulda fooled me.