ROR is a GREAT player. But I'm not gonna **** my pants over him either. And his contract is going to be a huge issue. Not against trading for him, just cautious.
Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II
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Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Well, you never know how a player will fit in the organization, but I prefer to trade for a 23-year old who has value in 4 years time, rather than a 31-year old (Spezza) with 1 year remaining on his current deal or a 35-year old who won't get any better.
ROR is the best value we can get on the current market.
Well the difference between those two older centers and ROR is that ROR's cost is for sure more prohibitive. Both the older guys are A) Older B) Have NTCs and C) Either have requested a trade or are their team is looking to shake things up. ROR is young and is looking to be embroiled in contract issue #2. So the assets you have the trade and the contract situation make me cautious.
I'm not advocating for either of those guys by the way
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Steve Yzerman has been talking to Stephen Bartlett about Ryan Callahan
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...o-sign-callahan-lindback-still-in-mix/2185365
Callahan wanted $7.5M and 8 years from the Rangers. Then it was lowered. 6 years and closer to $7M than $6M. The Rangers offered 5 years and $6M. Then it was bumped up to 6 years. The Rangers and Callahan's camp couldn't bridge the gap.
The Rangers would get TB's 2nd in 2015 if Callahan stays in TB. The Rangers would send their 7th in 2015 to TB as part of the deal.
Callahan is not taking a cheap deal so close to free agency. His stance got him traded out off the Rangers. The interview period begins on Wednesday. Callahan will see how many teams are willing to meet his parameters. Teams can't make verbal agreements but they can ask what it would take to get a deal done.
Columbus will be very interested in Callahan if he reaches July 1. They were interested in him at the deadline. San Jose was also interested. The Rangers plan B was trading Callahan to SJ. The Rangers weren't getting much because the rental market sucked at the trading deadline.
The Rangers gave Bartlett permission to speak with a few teams last winter. They were teams in the west.
You could have made great money last summer wagering Callahan would be traded.
Does Buffalo meet his asking price and would Callahan go there? That's a full and complete rebuilding program.
The Rangers weren't comfortable going farther than 6 years and $6M for Callahan.
You have to believe Staal will want a long term deal for big bucks. The Rangers didn't want to past 5 years with Callahan and offered a 6th year but it wasn't enough.
That's why the Rangers need to figure out where they are going with some of these players. Today is June 21. The draft is next Friday. Free agency begins a week from Tuesday.All of the action takes place between the draft and July 2.
For the Rangers sake,hopefully Callahan re-signs in Tampa and they get a 2nd rounder.
No first and second in 2013. No 1st in 2014. No first in 2015.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...o-sign-callahan-lindback-still-in-mix/2185365
Callahan wanted $7.5M and 8 years from the Rangers. Then it was lowered. 6 years and closer to $7M than $6M. The Rangers offered 5 years and $6M. Then it was bumped up to 6 years. The Rangers and Callahan's camp couldn't bridge the gap.
The Rangers would get TB's 2nd in 2015 if Callahan stays in TB. The Rangers would send their 7th in 2015 to TB as part of the deal.
Callahan is not taking a cheap deal so close to free agency. His stance got him traded out off the Rangers. The interview period begins on Wednesday. Callahan will see how many teams are willing to meet his parameters. Teams can't make verbal agreements but they can ask what it would take to get a deal done.
Columbus will be very interested in Callahan if he reaches July 1. They were interested in him at the deadline. San Jose was also interested. The Rangers plan B was trading Callahan to SJ. The Rangers weren't getting much because the rental market sucked at the trading deadline.
The Rangers gave Bartlett permission to speak with a few teams last winter. They were teams in the west.
You could have made great money last summer wagering Callahan would be traded.
Does Buffalo meet his asking price and would Callahan go there? That's a full and complete rebuilding program.
The Rangers weren't comfortable going farther than 6 years and $6M for Callahan.
You have to believe Staal will want a long term deal for big bucks. The Rangers didn't want to past 5 years with Callahan and offered a 6th year but it wasn't enough.
That's why the Rangers need to figure out where they are going with some of these players. Today is June 21. The draft is next Friday. Free agency begins a week from Tuesday.All of the action takes place between the draft and July 2.
For the Rangers sake,hopefully Callahan re-signs in Tampa and they get a 2nd rounder.
No first and second in 2013. No 1st in 2014. No first in 2015.
mcsauer2738
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- Apr 1, 2011
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Possible to trade Nash to NYI for the 5th overall ten sign Gaborik 3 years 18 mill?
Why Isles do it: gives JT a big scoring winger
Why Rangers do it: dump his contract and get a top 5 pick.
Why Isles do it: gives JT a big scoring winger
Why Rangers do it: dump his contract and get a top 5 pick.
Amazing Kreiderman
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If we can trade Nash to NYI for that 5th overall pick we draft Draisaitl/Del Colle and re-sign our entire team.
silverfish
got perma'd
I can definitely see Nash waiving his NMC to be traded from a team that just made the SCF to play for the Islanders.
Definitely.
Hitch16
Easily Triggered
I would be stunned if the Islanders made this trade. I cannot see Nash's trade value and contract enticing a team to trade their first round pick. His value is at an all time low. And I agree with silverfish - i just don't see that scenario where Nash waives his NTC to go to Long Island/Brooklyn.
Contracts: If ROR had a year on his deal, with a cap friendly hit, then trading Staal's relatively cap friendly contract wouldn't be an issue with me. But you're not. You're trading for an RFA who has already had a holdout and got his salary jacked up by a failed offer sheet. Not to mention you will probably have to pay more to replace Staal's production. That's not a recipe a team looking to get back into the Finals in the next year should be looking for IMHO.
Future Production: Someone didn't like that I threw out Prucha as an example of a player whose production did not increase as he got older. I wonder why they didn't bring up my other example: J. Staal.
Maybe it's because they didn't like what they saw when they went there.
J. Staal was drafted #2 overall. Scored 29 goals in his rookie year(!!!). In his 5th season he was an important contributor to the Penguins winning the Cup with his strong defensive play.
J. Staal scored 198 points in 369 games in his 1st 5 seasons (scoring over 20 goals 3X and he had 11 goals in 42 games in a 4th season).
ROR scored 191 points in 345 games in his 1st 5 seasons (and scored over 20 goals once, last season).
J. Staal is on a 10 year contract that pays $6MM per year. Staal scored 40 points last season in Year 1 of that new contract. If Carolina could find a taker for that contract, I have to think they'd love to move it.
Locking up ROR now to a rich, longterm deal is a risk. And there are plenty of players who didn't take "take next step" - especially after getting a fat contract.
Be careful what you wish for.
Personally, I would take Jordan Staal over O'Reilly. And quite frankly, I'd take him over almost all of the other options that have been mentioned.
25 year old, big, two way center, that can score 20 goals/40 points consistently. Two Stanley Cup Final appearances. A Stanley Cup ring.
Buy-out one of our key leaders in the locker room, i can think of a lot worse players to replace Richards than Jordan Staal.
Call me crazy, but depending on what assets would need to be traded Jordan Staal would be ideal. Contract included.
Maybe that persuades Marc to sign a more team friendly deal to stay and have a chance to win a Cup with his brother.
25 year old, big, two way center, that can score 20 goals/40 points consistently. Two Stanley Cup Final appearances. A Stanley Cup ring.
Buy-out one of our key leaders in the locker room, i can think of a lot worse players to replace Richards than Jordan Staal.
Call me crazy, but depending on what assets would need to be traded Jordan Staal would be ideal. Contract included.
Maybe that persuades Marc to sign a more team friendly deal to stay and have a chance to win a Cup with his brother.
Nash will still score around 30 goals in the regular season and would help the Isles potentially make the playoffs. helping the Isles make the playoffs is not something that's high on Slats' to-do list.
I don't know that the Rangers are keen on moving Nash but if they were, I wonder whether Pitt would be interested? Crosby and Nash had great chemistry two Olympics ago and the word out of Pitt after their early exit from the PO's was that they needed to cater to Crosby a bit more in terms of their roster. You want to do a bad contract for a bad contract, Nash for Letang.
O'reilly would be a solid addition to our center corps, for sure. Losing Staal would have a bigger negative effect on the defense than most people realize, however.
But you touched on the thing with ROR. His contract. He makes $6.5M per now, not because hes a great/elite player, but because he strong armed his way there. Everyone is so concerned about overpaying Staal, but the coming over payment for O'Reilly would be just as egregious, if not more so.
Im also VERY skeptical he'd reach 60 points here without the top shelf offensive talent that Colorado has.
Good player, but just another example of a guy who seems to look way better because hes not a Ranger.
Jordan Staal us very overrated . He's a 3rd line C. A good one but not as good as Erik . Rangers need a guy like him or just keep stepan , brassard top 2
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
SeventySeven, I'm just not convinced on ROR. I agree with Bleed Ranger Blue. ROR strong armed the Avs on an RFA contract and while I think he's a terrific player and those takeaway/PIM numbers are outstanding, I don't think he's worth Staal + Hags or Brass.
Our best bet is probably keeping Staal and running out Stepan/Brass/Miller. All three can take an upwards tick. Look at the good teams, they work in their young players in sheltered roles. Chicago with Saad and Shaw, LA with Toffoli and Pearson, Pitt with Maata. We don't have a defenseman to step in for Staal, we do have a C to step in for Richards.
I think the underrating of Stepan and overrating of ROR is largely due to us watching one on a nightly basis and sparingly seeing the other. I wouldn't be surprised if Stepan out produced ROR on the Rangers.
Our best bet is probably keeping Staal and running out Stepan/Brass/Miller. All three can take an upwards tick. Look at the good teams, they work in their young players in sheltered roles. Chicago with Saad and Shaw, LA with Toffoli and Pearson, Pitt with Maata. We don't have a defenseman to step in for Staal, we do have a C to step in for Richards.
I think the underrating of Stepan and overrating of ROR is largely due to us watching one on a nightly basis and sparingly seeing the other. I wouldn't be surprised if Stepan out produced ROR on the Rangers.
silverfish
got perma'd
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
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The only thing with O'Reilly that scares me is the cap hit that comes along with signing him (even though I know it's manageable.)
That's why I'm pushing for a more cost-controlled player that won't hinder our cap this year while allowing us to re-sign our core free agents. That's why I agree with going for someone like Kadri, Colin Wilson,or maybe even Cody Hodgson.
Also, my stat before for Kadri was incorrect. What I meant to say was over the last four seasons, the 5v5 close primary points/60!(goals + primary assists) Kadri is ranked 5th behind Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, and Toews. And on top of this, he has good possession numbers. If he wasn't playing under a bumble**** of a coach in Carlyle, I really think this kid can reach a whole nother level of play.
Here's the article about the stat I mentioned, and it lists the top 50 in that category:
http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/06/19/5v5close-primary-points-per-60-minutes-leaders/
That's why I'm pushing for a more cost-controlled player that won't hinder our cap this year while allowing us to re-sign our core free agents. That's why I agree with going for someone like Kadri, Colin Wilson,or maybe even Cody Hodgson.
Also, my stat before for Kadri was incorrect. What I meant to say was over the last four seasons, the 5v5 close primary points/60!(goals + primary assists) Kadri is ranked 5th behind Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, and Toews. And on top of this, he has good possession numbers. If he wasn't playing under a bumble**** of a coach in Carlyle, I really think this kid can reach a whole nother level of play.
Here's the article about the stat I mentioned, and it lists the top 50 in that category:
http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/06/19/5v5close-primary-points-per-60-minutes-leaders/
Amazing Kreiderman
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Should be interesting, I think Callahan ends up in SJ if they pony up the dough, or its Buffalo for him. Rumor was that Buffalo was willing to offer 7/$47 when Bartlett talked to them. SJ will buyout Havlat, trade Thornton and or Marleau so they'll have plenty of cap space for a player like Callahan. It will definitely change the identity of that team so I'd say SJ if they go up in price, but Doug Wilson has never been a guy to pay elite money for a non-elite player.
Buffalo on the other hand, I can see going after Callahan and Gionta to serve as their captains and bring back some hometown boys. They won't be in the playoff race with that "goaltending" and defense so it will be a matter of dollars like always.
On CLB, Johanson needs a new deal, they need to shore up their D, and Jack Johnson might be trade bait with Umberger moving out of there too, so its possible, but the cap would make it unlikely.
All it takes is one team and one GM to hand out that deal, but really Ryan Callahan 5.8 is a high premium, above that, then it will be the next Drury contract for the league.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Overrated in what sense? If you expect him to be a 60 point guy, then yes.
If you are looking to solidify your center depth, and have a balanced attack line after line, then no.
He would add size, skill, and two-way play. If we were to lose Boyle, he could fill in on the PK as well.
He is young enough to be a core piece moving forward. Stepan is a 50+ point center, Staal as the #2 as a 40+ point two-way center is not a bad option.
Also, with Staal, the contract is settled. Its not an unknown. With O'Reilly, it's an unknown how much he will demand.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
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He lead the Avs with 55 points two years ago. Better than Duchene and Landeskog.
I don't, at all think his points are a result of playing with talent.
Preach. It's so tired and played out. I say every speculation thread, we need to title it "Nash has a FULL NMC".
He's not going anywhere this off-season. The sooner we realize this, the sooner these threads can go back to being actually positively somewhat productive
This is the problem I'm having bud. I want to come here to read/discuss realities but evey thread turns into trade Rick Nash or overpay for 2nd line center ROR. It's disgusting. The obsession with ROR is ridiculous. I'd rather have Stastny and I dont even want him.
Listen I'm not happy with Nash's playoff stats but the reality is he did play well. He was effective. He played some great PK minutes which I never thought he would do. He was skating hard and he started to be more forceful from the MTL series on. Unfortunately there werent any goals but I want that guy here. I think he will be very good next year. To get that close, not score and not win the cup, i think he will have a fire under his ass.
And I really think Sather tries to get Joe Thornton now that Richards is gone. I also think with Boyle going, the Rangers look at Shawn Thornton.
For those that clamor for ROR, he is what he is, the guy isn't going to score more than 60 without some help. Great player to have, but no 1 center he is not. More in the mold of a poor man's Toews or a lesser Bergeron depending on where he is lined up.
Just because he's 23 and young doesn't mean he hasn't peaked. We saw that with Del Zotto here, and a lot of folks look age and performance of a hockey player as a bell curve... it doesn't always work that way on an individual basis, but as a group stat, yeah absolutely.
Rangers need a top 6 center now, and how they address that will be interesting. My gut says its Thornton, and he'll come at a cheap price in terms of pieces going the other way with probably John Moore and Brassard being the centerpiece.
Just because he's 23 and young doesn't mean he hasn't peaked. We saw that with Del Zotto here, and a lot of folks look age and performance of a hockey player as a bell curve... it doesn't always work that way on an individual basis, but as a group stat, yeah absolutely.
Rangers need a top 6 center now, and how they address that will be interesting. My gut says its Thornton, and he'll come at a cheap price in terms of pieces going the other way with probably John Moore and Brassard being the centerpiece.
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