Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

[jerseyjinx94]

The time to move Girardi, if at all, was last season. He's NOT getting traded. It's really that simple. Whether we should have or shouldn't have is debatable, but whether he will be or not is not debatable. Any realistic post should include Girardi on the team because he's going nowhere.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Nash would accept a trade to other teams IMO.. especially San Jose (to play with Thornton) should they want him..

San Jose is on the record as rebuilding and wants to trade Thornton, LOL. They're not going to trade for Nash, but I agree he may waive his NTC. I just don't see him doing it, we just made the SCF.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

If we could get ROR, we'd be good up the middle. We don't need a surefire 1st line center. Stepan, Brassard, and a 3rd "2nd line" center would be more than enough. Especially since we're pretty stacked at winger. Don't think we have the assets for ROR, though. I wouldn't mind someone like Legwand, Grabovski, or Mike Santorelli. Not the "sexiest" names but would give us good depth (if we resign Moore, of course). All would be relatively cheap.

I'm not sure if I buy Stastny as the type of player that's worth spending big for. I'd much rather save the money for 2015 when there's a much more attractive free agent class.

Speaking of the 2015 class, we should be calling up Chicago to see how they're planning on cutting cap space. Wouldn't mind taking a few young players off their hands.

 

[Raspewtin]

and Toronto isn't just going to give him away.. what do you offer?

A handful of their fans say they'd trade him for Staal straight up. I think that's fair value.

Toronto is so screwed up, I don't think any player on that team is valued correctly right now other than JvR and Rielly. Hard to get fair value for any player when your team lost 8 straight games to blow a playoff spot.

In my opinion, it wouldn't even cost Staal. Nick Kypreos said they inquired about Patrik Berglund from STL and offered Kadri. And Berglund is a huge downgrade, but he's a "Randy Carlyle player" if I've ever seen one.

 

[Raspewtin]

The time to move Girardi, if at all, was last season. He's NOT getting traded. It's really that simple. Whether we should have or shouldn't have is debatable, but whether he will be or not is not debatable. Any realistic post should include Girardi on the team because he's going nowhere.

Giving NMCs to slightly above average players will kill cap strapped teams around the league.

 

[TheTakedown]

bernmeister, I appreciate your imagination and your posts.

there is so little to appreciate about those abominations.. but cheers to you finding it.

 

[TheTakedown]

As noted previously, having enough actual talent is more important than chemistry.

They razzed the living **** out of John Adams for constantly bringing up the subject of independence. It took Franklin and Jefferson to seal the deal, but Adams was ultimately proven right.

I have been saying we need to trade certain guys for a profit.
Now we are starting to see that come to roost.
Holding on to Girardi is folly, it will cost us.
RB is on record as to Staal.
etc.

These moves have to be made. Sooner or later.
But by all means yell at me all ya want, I will be proven correct on most of my points, wait and see.

In any event, got tooo much to do this w/e
peace and love to all , including those who would be my enemy.

And what if the players have the talent but nobody else to work with?

You clearly have never played hockey before. There is no "Lebron James" factor in hockey, let alone the NHL. it is the MOST team-driven game in the world..

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

San Jose is NOT rebuilding! Can we get that clear? They are re-tooling, which is completely different.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

San Jose is NOT rebuilding! Can we get that clear? They are re-tooling, which is completely different.

I thought they said they were rebuilding? I could have sworn I read a direct quote about that.

Calm down.

 

[bernmeister]

NASH IS NOT GETTING TRADED... he's not going anywhere... you can enjoy these fantasized teams, but you are better off playing NHL 14 then... Nash is here for at least 1 more year, and Zib is nothing close to what you are making him out to be...

You want to take 2 23 year old centerman that both currently score 60 points and swap them for an aging over the hill star and a nobody free agent?

Dear ****ing goodness

1.

NASH IS NOT GETTING TRADED... he's not going anywhere... Nash is here for at least 1 more year,

If I'm not mistaken, Nash has NMC this year, then converts into limited NTC,
He can play that game.
OR
Depending on what happens here, he can take a lot of heat for an entire year by a fan base that is saying he is worth $$, but not the $$$$$ he is getting.
If he accepts that trade now instead of next year, all that distraction for us and aggravation for him goes buh-bye.
The ? is what is a good home for Nash now that is a fit, is relatively stress free, and has upside.
That is a fair and open ?.
Nashville is not an automatic no.
There are others.

2. Zib has value. If you don't want to hold, fine there is a duty to consider which of several scenarios play out better, and if you move him, like if you move Spezza, who is moved where.
But I disagree with the premise that value is received is not adequate given the downsides of Stepan + ROR, not just the upside.
These guys are not especially athletic, and would not consider ROR, who will push for more and more $$$ constantly --- not good for rest of the team --- unless I'm moving 2 big contracts (staal+girardi) and getting a decent prospect also (siemens).

3. Also, there are +s on those equations.
Whatever it is, Ottawa would be sending more back than we'd add for cap/balance.

THINK OF IT THIS WAY.
What does ROR get on the open market? Stepan? Spezza? Zibby?

now, the best deals we can make, adding if necessary, which pair (or which 2 individuals) gives us a better return?

Even the bernmeister has to deal with work.
I'll take a peek over the w/e and see what you guys come up with.
But I expect to post less until end of next wk.
yeah, funny, insert derisive comment here _________________

But in conclusion, if you do the homework, you will see your assumptions are wrong and more often than not I am correct.

And (to all those to whom this applies) for the umpteenth time:
it is not a matter of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line
Miller combos w/Kreider + MSL cause of his speed.
Stop putting a number on something to which, in this case, the # is irrelevant.

 

[TheTakedown]

I thought they said they were rebuilding? I could have sworn I read a direct quote about that.

Calm down.

They specifically said REBUILDING...

SAN JOSE -- The language was blunt -- almost as if Sharks general manager Doug Wilson felt the need to convince both players and fans that he was serious when he declared that his team is entering a rebuild.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci_25981040/sharks-sign-alex-stalock-mike-brown-new-deals

 

[bernmeister]

bernmeister, I appreciate your imagination and your posts.

thanks for this kind and brave gesture.

Tell it like it is... let your conscience be your guide.

not original, but classic.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

San Jose is in win now mode. They have a top team why are they rebuilding? I know what Wilson said, to me it means he'll move anyone if the right deal presented itself. I talk to my brother in law who's as die hard SJ as it comes they aren't rebuilding they're re-tooling

 

[bernmeister]

The time to move Girardi, if at all, was last season. He's NOT getting traded. It's really that simple. Whether we should have or shouldn't have is debatable, but whether he will be or not is not debatable. Any realistic post should include Girardi on the team because he's going nowhere.

A reasonable opinion, but I respectfully disagree.
Girardi CAN kill any deal at the present, doesn't that mean he necessarily wants to.

 

[TheTakedown]

San Jose is in win now mode. They have a top team why are they rebuilding? I know what Wilson said, to me it means he'll move anyone if the right deal presented itself. I talk to my brother in law who's as die hard SJ as it comes they aren't rebuilding they're re-tooling

explain why their GM used the word rebuilding then...

They are the Penguins of the west... They played incredibly well in the regular season, then come playoff time and the just can't do it... Now, you may say it's cause the west is stronger than the east... but I beg to differ... The are the 4th team in NHL history to blow a 3-0 series lead and lose in 7...

that's just horrendous

 

[jerseyjinx94]

A reasonable opinion, but I respectfully disagree.
Girardi CAN kill any deal at the present, doesn't that mean he necessarily wants to.

He just signed a 6 year contract to remain a Ranger to provide stability and what not. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he'd nix the deal. It would also be a classless move by the Rangers to do that and that's not how they operate.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

San Jose is in win now mode. They have a top team why are they rebuilding? I know what Wilson said, to me it means he'll move anyone if the right deal presented itself. I talk to my brother in law who's as die hard SJ as it comes they aren't rebuilding they're re-tooling

Your brother-in-law? Oh, I apologize. My mistake for taking the word of the team's GM over your brother-in-law, who I never heard of. My mistake.

 

[bernmeister]

And what if the players have the talent but nobody else to work with?

You clearly have never played hockey before. There is no "Lebron James" factor in hockey, let alone the NHL. it is the MOST team-driven game in the world..

for sake of argument, agree that hockey is most team driven esp at highest concentration of best players at NHL.

That doesn't change the point.
An extreme example to prove it:

Take 20 guys like Stu Bickel. Say they work hard, bust their ass. Have all the chemistry possible.

They can't beat a regular NHL team with more across the board talent.

Obviously, NYR is closer to the elites and premium players in the league than 20 StuBics to a generic team, competent, not great, but clearly more talent.

But the elites have the upper hand, AND THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT DEVOID OF CHEMISTRY.

that is why you convert assets into ROR and the good but not great Stepan, you flip for assets that directly or indirectly result in profit.

Profit = more horses, esp, since we are catching up draft wise with out top picks.

Final word.
Chemistry is important but overrated compared to talent.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

for sake of argument, agree that hockey is most team driven esp at highest concentration of best players at NHL.

That doesn't change the point.
An extreme example to prove it:

Take 20 guys like Stu Bickel. Say they work hard, bust their ass. Have all the chemistry possible.

They can't beat a regular NHL team with more across the board talent.

Obviously, NYR is closer to the elites and premium players in the league than 20 StuBics to a generic team, competent, not great, but clearly more talent.

But the elites have the upper hand, AND THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT DEVOID OF CHEMISTRY.

that is why you convert assets into ROR and the good but not great Stepan, you flip for assets that directly or indirectly result in profit.

Profit = more horses, esp, since we are catching up draft wise with out top picks.

Final word.
Chemistry is important but overrated compared to talent.

What makes ROR so much better than Stepan? Stepan is on his way to being a 65-70 point 2 way center. He can be a great player for a long time.

The Rangers just made the SCF, and you think they're devoid of talent?

Define "horse."

 

[bernmeister]

He just signed a 6 year contract to remain a Ranger to provide stability and what not. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he'd nix the deal. It would also be a classless move by the Rangers to do that and that's not how they operate.

So you are saying it is mathematically impossible for Slats to come up with even 1 place he would not enjoy as much as NY, let alone prefer?

Not even 1 deal for 1 place?
not toronto, where I believe he grew up a Leafs fan?
Nor upwards of 30 teams, not even 1 scenario that fits.

You're forcing me to my 'My Cousin Vinny' card:
are you sure, Ms. de vee toe.

good w/e

 

[jerseyjinx94]

So you are saying it is mathematically impossible for Slats to come up with even 1 place he would not enjoy as much as NY, let alone prefer?

Not even 1 deal for 1 place?
not toronto, where I believe he grew up a Leafs fan?
Nor upwards of 30 teams, not even 1 scenario that fits.

You're forcing me to my 'My Cousin Vinny' card:
are you sure, Ms. de vee toe.

good w/e

No, I'm not sure. I'm not friends with Dan Girardi. I'm using common sense, that's all.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Girardi didn't negotiate that clause for nothing.. maybe if we sucked, he would.. but we just went to the SCF.

and trading him is a dumb idea anyway. RHD apparently grow on trees.

 

[bernmeister]

What makes ROR so much better than Stepan? Stepan is on his way to being a 65-70 point 2 way center. He can be a great player for a long time.

The Rangers just made the SCF, and you think they're devoid of talent?

Define "horse."

Not a fan of ROR, or he is SO MUCH better, I never said that, am agreeing they are comparables.

Am saying if the cost or ROR = assets I want to move,
and
the return for moving ROR (who I don't want to keep) is assets I prefer/want to have, I should make that deal.

Rangers not devoid of talent.
Not enough talent to impose their will
Team that can best do that, while avoiding injuries and getting lucky, IMO usually wins Cup.
Rangers must therefore move assets including current roster players to get that extra talent to prevail over the most elite team currently.

Either that or they leave themselves to chance of injuries and luck.

Horses.
In this sense, it is vernacular.
Use your imagination.
By all means tho, let's not

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Horses.
In this sense, it is vernacular.
Use your imagination.
By all means tho, let's not

LOL

This cracked me up.

I don't know what you mean by horses, and the rosters you post have less "horses" than we currently have, so I'm not really sure what you're thinking.

 

[bernmeister]

Girardi didn't negotiate that clause for nothing.. maybe if we sucked, he would.. but we just went to the SCF.

and trading him is a dumb idea anyway. RHD apparently grow on trees.

Yeah, let's look at that.
He negotiated it cause he has Slats over a barrel and it was a measure of control he could extract which Slats was able to surrender w/o anything $ related affecting the cap.

That doesn't mean 100% he will unconditionally reject any scenario.
He simply wants control. BTW, off top of my head that is not for entire length of deal.
So we tell him, look, we are badly backed up, everybody has to get paid, including you. we need to move a couple of higher priced vets. As soon as possible that will include Nash, but right now, it's you and Staal and maybe a F.

If we hook you up really nice, can you do us a solid?

It's not personal, its biz.
It will buy you good will here in NY after your playing days....

And depending upon where it is, he may be good with that.
May be possible to add some kind of bonus if he is traded.

It's not impossible.

SO I'M SAYIN THERE'S A CHANCE!!