Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

[haveandare]

We NEED to move a boatload of people, either because of cap or talent upgrade.
Wake up!

You want to make the team better or not?
Don't expect it to somehow suddenly be dramatically better if it is virtually the same team!

They don't need to do that at all.

They can buyout Richards, insert Miller, who you yourself are pulling for, in his spot and resign everyone.

Does that not make them better going forward? Will Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Miller, etc just stop improving at whatever ages they're at? Come on.

And no team is going to be dramatically better than just losing the cup with 3 OT games. That's an unrealistic standard. They'd improve just by getting rid of Richards, resigning people and letting the kids grow together. They won't improve "dramatically" by starting essentially from scratch with insane roster turnover. If anything, they'll be back where they started last year.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

see subs. posts re: ZIBBY +

Just talent is not enough. You cannot replace 7 players without losing chemistry. We struggled for 3 months to get this team used to the new tactics. We are finally where we should be. Don't throw that away because you want fancy new toys. This isn't NHL 14.

 

[Championship*]

i know this isnt popular with most ranger fans, but this is what i would do in the offseason

Kreider/skjei/2nd for Thornton
if sharks say no

Sign David Legwand on 1 year deal
try to sign Pouliot, if not go after
Setoguchi, steve downie, or even Heatley{yes not kidding]
resign Stralman

Good lord are those awful ideas. Just plain awful.

 

[Fugazy]

Just talent is not enough. You cannot replace 7 players without losing chemistry. We struggled for 3 months to get this team used to the new tactics. We are finally where we should be. Don't throw that away because you want fancy new toys. This isn't NHL 14.

Well said again. This team has a good structure right now. It would be foolish to break that up significantly.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

lucky or not last season (and I think we had some with the rallying around MSL's mom), though we did beat Montreal (so who knows?).. I'd like to keep most of the team in tact... The chemistry is very good, and the young guys can continue to get better.

If we can bring in a #1 center at a price we can live with, go for it.

 

[bernmeister]

and makes us a much worse team...

No it does not.

you already got Siemens in the
Staal + Girardi + Pouilot for ROR + Siemens

First you get something extra doing ROR + Stepan + for Spezza + Zibby(/lesser + if applicable).

Zibby, 5th overall is the prize here!

also we moved a heavy contract in Girardi, and we have room to bring in a RD more complementary to teh system
-------------------------------------------------

you now have options on Zuc + Brassard as a pair
so
something like
Nash at full 50% for full balance of contract, which is huge
+ Brassard + rights to Zuc + Calle Andersson + Rangers 2016 1st (figures to be late)
for
Seth Jones
Colin Wilson, Viktor Stalberg (reduced) + Nashville's 2014 1st (what 11, OA?)

Kreider - Miller - MSL
Boyle - Spezza - Zibby
Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast
Yogan - D. Moore - Haggerty

trade Dorsett
develop Yogan, see what happens. You have people in the wings.
Then trade off excess and upgrade further.

we can explore who gets moved further here.
Maybe we don't play all out w/Spezza and are smart and build.
We hand shake with Sens and flip to Blues for any of several possibilities...
or we can flip him further out west if it is in our long term interest.

And yes, I put Boyle up at 2LW, and not 'cause there were no other options.
Boyle distinguished himself in the playoffs --- what about that killer goal in what was that, the game 5 final --- and apparently would prefer to be here. In the above construct making space possible, I would tell him, ok, 1 year deal 2.75 mil, 2LW is yours to lose. That's win win, and if he's a bust up there, we flip him, and if he has fully grown to that, we have inside track to extend.

D
McD Jones
Allen Klein
Siemens McIlrath
Diaz

maybe sign Redmond as FA leaving Jets

this would be much better, and being more cost controlled, better able to even further tweaked into guys even a better fit for AV system!

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

No it does not.

you already got Siemens in the
Staal + Girardi + Pouilot for ROR + Siemens

First you get something extra doing ROR + Stepan + for Spezza + Zibby(/lesser + if applicable).

Zibby, 5th overall is the prize here!

also we moved a heavy contract in Girardi, and we have room to bring in a RD more complementary to teh system
-------------------------------------------------



Kreider - Miller - MSL
Boyle - Spezza - Zibby
Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast
Yogan - D. Moore - Haggerty



this would be much better, and being more cost controlled, better able to even further tweaked into guys even a better fit for AV system!

Great... We have 7 caliber NHL players on 4 lines.. (Kreider, MSL, Spezza, Zibby, Moore, Hagelin)

So.. let me get this straight.. Boyle shakes Doughty and snipes Quick on one play and he's a top 6 forward now?

 

[bernmeister]

This team just made the Stanley Cup Final. I think the core is established pretty well and there isn't a need to shake up the majority of the roster.

One could argue this team was both lucky and good.
They did not dominate, by sheer force of will, which is what a champion ultimately does.

They were more like the 69 mets than the 61 Yanks in the playoffs.

We have lots of work to do.
Minor tweak will not cut it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Kreider - Miller - MSL
Boyle - Spezza - Zibby
Hagelin - Lindberg - Fast
Yogan - D. Moore - Haggerty


McD Jones
Allen Klein
Siemens McIlrath
Diaz

Not commenting on the trades, just the line up:

- Boyle is not a 2nd line player
- Miller is not a 1st line center
- Lindberg, Yogan, Haggerty won't all make the team in 1 season
- I count 9(!) new players. This is ridiculous!

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

One could argue this team was both lucky and good.
They did not dominate, by sheer force of will, which is what a champion ultimately does.

They were more like the 69 mets than the 61 Yanks in the playoffs.

We have lots of work to do.
Minor tweak will not cut it.

A #1 or #1A center (which is a "tweak* depending on price certainly does cut it.. because than Stepan moves to the 2nd line already making it better.

 

[bernmeister]

They don't need to do that at all.

They can buyout Richards, insert Miller, who you yourself are pulling for, in his spot and resign everyone.

Does that not make them better going forward? Will Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Miller, etc just stop improving at whatever ages they're at? Come on.

And no team is going to be dramatically better than just losing the cup with 3 OT games. That's an unrealistic standard. They'd improve just by getting rid of Richards, resigning people and letting the kids grow together. They won't improve "dramatically" by starting essentially from scratch with insane roster turnover. If anything, they'll be back where they started last year.

Not enough to dominate and take the cup.
They will improve, yes, be better day 1, yes.
But they need more before we can honestly say we expect them to outplay head to head the Ducks, Kings, for sure and prob Hawks and Blues dep on their netminder's play. === let's be honest about that.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Just for instance.... if we traded Staal + Miller for ROR.. Just an EXAMPLE! (no need to freak out)..

Our lines would be as follows..

Kreider-ROR-Nash
Zucc-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Brassard-?
? - Moore - Dorsett.

Mcdonagh-Girardi
Moore-Stralman (re sign)
Allen-Klein

The defense is weaker then last year, but the offense is much improved with skill, size, talent and depth. and most of the team (especially the core) is still in tact.

 

[eco's bones]

A few random thoughts:

I like Ryan O'Reilly as a player but he's not a great skater and he's bent his Avalanche team over twice already in contract negotiations and he's not even that close to being a UFA yet. This guy has already held out--past training camp and into the regular season. How many young players do that? People *****ed about Dubinsky. He didn't go that far. ROR is a very good young player but not an elite player--and that should be kept in mind. If we get him--he's going to be costly in terms of players going the other way and cap $'s and when he finally hits UFA it's best to assume that he'll be hiring on with the highest bidder. There's a pretty decent chance he'll turn into a headache someway or somehow.

Stralman--the assumption is that Staal gets moved--Rangers sign Stralman. Even for those who think Stralman is the better player--assuming just because the Rangers now have the cash money to sign him before July 1st that he will be signed is a reach. Time is running out on this scenario and Stralman may in fact just be curious enough to find out what other teams might offer him whether or not the Rangers offer him the same contract they gave Girardi.

Diaz--I don't know what the fascination is with some of the people here for this guy. Basically he became our 7th defenseman. You look down the list of UFA d-men and there are all kinds of 5-7 d-men who might be available for cheap cap hits. Mike Weaver may be available. Clayton Stoner who played so well for the Wild in the playoffs. Tallinder. Andre Benoit. Matt Greene. If we need an extra vet for cheap--there will be other players besides Diaz.

 

[bernmeister]

Just talent is not enough. You cannot replace 7 players without losing chemistry. We struggled for 3 months to get this team used to the new tactics. We are finally where we should be. Don't throw that away because you want fancy new toys. This isn't NHL 14.

I agree chemistry is a legit factor.
But you can have a world of chemistry and get guys playing over their heads and I'll be generous and say the statistically impossible of returning over 100%.

But if you lose out on the overall or special/elite talent area, chemistry is not enough.

Sure, you need chemistry to get the most from your horses, but
YA STILL GOTTA HAVE THE HORSES

WE NEED MORE HORSES!

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I agree chemistry is a legit factor.
But you can have a world of chemistry and get guys playing over their heads and I'll be generous and say the statistically impossible of returning over 100%.

But if you lose out on the overall or special/elite talent area, chemistry is not enough.

Sure, you need chemistry to get the most from your horses, but
YA STILL GOTTA HAVE THE HORSES

WE NEED MORE HORSES!

Well, in your team.. we have about 4 horses and maybe a few good players (hags/boyle), and some guys who might not even become NHL players....

 

[Fugazy]

I agree chemistry is a legit factor.
But you can have a world of chemistry and get guys playing over their heads and I'll be generous and say the statistically impossible of returning over 100%.

But if you lose out on the overall or special/elite talent area, chemistry is not enough.

Sure, you need chemistry to get the most from your horses, but
YA STILL GOTTA HAVE THE HORSES

WE NEED MORE HORSES!

The trades you proposed gave us less depth and overall talent.

 

[bernmeister]

Great... We have 7 caliber NHL players on 4 lines.. (Kreider, MSL, Spezza, Zibby, Moore, Hagelin)

So.. let me get this straight.. Boyle shakes Doughty and snipes Quick on one play and he's a top 6 forward now?

He's not the second coming of ______________.

But he was beatch slapped by Torts, publicly, and suppressed.

He did not show us anything until the end, when he picked his spots.
That last one, a real doozy, was an exclamation point.

The guy deserves a shot if he'll do it for less to prove it.
I think with the right linemates he would succeed.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I agree chemistry is a legit factor.
But you can have a world of chemistry and get guys playing over their heads and I'll be generous and say the statistically impossible of returning over 100%.

But if you lose out on the overall or special/elite talent area, chemistry is not enough.

Sure, you need chemistry to get the most from your horses, but
YA STILL GOTTA HAVE THE HORSES

WE NEED MORE HORSES!

You suffer from shiny new toy-syndrome

 

[Zil]

We dearly need substantive news to discuss. Oof.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Sorry, IMO both very bad deals.
remember, Miller is the speed link for Kreider, MSL

ROR is not cheap, will not be cheap, and will force the price up on Stepan

I would love to do

Staal, Girardi + Pouilot for ROR + Siemens
then flip
ROR + Stepan
for
Spezza + Zibby

Ok, so say Sather suddenly has a stroke and agrees to do these deals, please enlighten us what our defense will look like next year.

 

[pld459666]

Maybe its me. But I'm not trading Hagelin for Zibby with out Ottawa adding something.

This kid has not impressed me one bit.

 

[bernmeister]

Not commenting on the trades, just the line up:

- Boyle is not a 2nd line player
- Miller is not a 1st line center
- Lindberg, Yogan, Haggerty won't all make the team in 1 season
- I count 9(!) new players. This is ridiculous!

Last one of the night...

Boyle is not a 2nd line player

He's demonstrated enough to be given a shot with enough offensive talent for him to have every basis to succeed there as well. He has enough natural gifts --- skating, speed, shot, passing, advantages with size.

Miller is not a 1st line center

The above item about Boyle is subjective. This one is not.
Miller is the natural speed complement to Kreider and MSL.
Doesn't matter whether that is 1st, 2nd or 3rd line. That is the unit.
because Kreider is 1LW, and MSL is phenomenal shape/training that starts as
1st line. The label you insist on attaching to Miller is irrelevant.

Lindberg, Yogan, Haggerty won't all make the team in 1 season

If they make enough space is there is no reason why not.
Sure, if Nash/Brassard/Zuc are here then of course not.
But if Nash/Brassard/Zuc gets you Jones +, then it is different, admit it.

Lindberg = pivot of sweet Swede line, totally complementary w/Hags + Fast. CHECK
Yogan = this is our last year with him, we use him or lose him. I say see what we have, develop, showcase and keep or move. This is a tall guy w/some scoring touch. now that his NHL future is within grasp, I expect him to work hard. Nice fit w/D.Moore and Haggerty, listed as a C with righty shot. CHECK
Haggerty = I would not go there, except supposedly somewhere it was said he'd sign on condition he got express fast track including legit shot at club roster, why he was w/us for cup run.

He does need to develop, but if that is true, that 4th RD as an upgrade to Dorsett is NOT far fetched. CHECK.


And it is not how many new players there are.
It is about whether or not on balance they are "better" and I would dare say it is a more talented group overall.

And it is not ridiculous.
Ya say ya want that nice tasty omlette but ya don't want break any eggs!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Look, I scored 35 goals with Anthony Duclair in NHL14 but it's not going to happen. Same thing with guys like Yogan, Lindberg, Haggerty, Miller this coming season. Don't try to fix what isn't broken.

If we can get fair value for Nash, and he's willing to waive his NTC, I'd be okay with that but that's about it. Don't throw away Brassard, Zucc, Moore etc.

And Boyle played on our 3rd line for 2 full seasons and that was already too much for him.

 

[Ghost of jas]

This feels like the longest off-season already.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Maybe its me. But I'm not trading Hagelin for Zibby with out Ottawa adding something.

This kid has not impressed me one bit.

thought it was just me..