WC: 2014 Division IB • Apr. 20-26 • General Discussion (Mod warning post 453)

[Medo]

Exactly!

Shouldn't the hockey federation also move forward now with Medvescak in the KHL?

It should but it isn't.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

If he was actually good enough to realistically play for USA, I bet he would have pursued that option over gaining eligibility for GB.

Actually he can, if he plays in the EIHL for 4 seasons. Another stupid IIHF rule

I was talking about if we went with the committing to a country in U18/U20 levels lol

 

[cave troll]

Sure . There is no way the Russians will financialy support a foreign team indefinetly. Sooner or later the league will move to places where teams are able to support their big budgets on their own and are profitable.

Yes, sure.
When Medvescak announced that they want to join EBEL, there was laughter. Medvescak joined and made playoffs every season.
When they announced that they want to join KHL, there was even a bigger laughter. When they joined there was disbelief.
When they made playoffs in first season there was silence.

In the meantime, Jesenice dissolved, and Olimpija is transferring to Zagreb.

 

[zamo86*]

You don't think it will change now when they joined the KHL?

There's a difference between EBEL and KHL. The second one gives more publicity and more money, so I can almost guarentee there will be better developed Croation junior players from now on.

Its doubtful. Even in the EBEL years no progress was made in Croatia to change things, and things are still as they were before. I imagine a big problem is that, KHL or not, ice hockey in Croatia is a marginal [expensive] sport.

 

[Medo]

Its doubtful. Even in the EBEL years no progress was made in Croatia to change things, and things are still as they were before. I imagine a big problem is that, KHL or not, ice hockey in Croatia is a marginal [expensive] sport.

The way to change that certainly isn't in games vs Turkey in lower divisions and in Croatian league matches. Hockey is growing and its probably the only sport that is actually gaining new followers. Its not the most popular one and it will never be, but there's certainly place for it among the bigger sports in Croatia. Only time will tell if we will exploit to the full the fact that we finally have KHL, public and media eyes noticing the sport which was unfamiliar to 99.9% of population just 6, 7 years ago. That's probably the most positive thing about this all. The media attention and fan base which expanded.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

The way to change that certainly isn't in games vs Turkey in lower divisions and in Croatian league matches.

I just looked at the Croatia U20 record and unless they get a few 30+ year old Canadians, they'll be playing in lower divisions.

2012-13 U20 D1B
2013-14 U20 D2A
2014-15 U20 D2B

Spain, Serbia, Australia, Iceland, and Belgium. Big competition next year.

 

[Medo]

I just looked at the Croatia U20 record and unless they get a few 30+ year old Canadians, they'll be playing in lower divisions.

2012-13 U20 D1B
2013-14 U20 D2A
2014-15 U20 D2B

Spain, Serbia, Australia, Iceland, and Belgium. Big competition next year.

U18 is better and those kids are doing good. Good enough for this level. Everyone gave up on u20 as u18 plays in EBEL. Unfortunately we don't have the depth for both.

 

[zamo86*]

MedveÅ¡čak's money is like peanuts for their international sponsors. Almost not even worth mentioning.

And thats the reason why you strongly believe they will sponsor a foreign team indefinetly? Why do you think they are in Zagreb anyways? I believe that by around 2020 KHL will have a number of teams from big cities across Europe, even on the expense of some mediocre Russian teams that, like Medvescak, cant support themselves and arent profitable. Thats what they need to do if they want to compete with the NHL.

 

[cave troll]

I just looked at the Croatia U20 record and unless they get a few 30+ year old Canadians, they'll be playing in lower divisions.

2012-13 U20 D1B
2013-14 U20 D2A
2014-15 U20 D2B

Spain, Serbia, Australia, Iceland, and Belgium. Big competition next year.

Conclusion is?
All roster from U-20 2014 will play in seniors?
Cool, GB U-18 barely manged to avoid relegation in 2B. In 3-4 years, GB senior team will fall to 2B.
That's the same logic.

 

[Medo]

And thats the reason why you strongly believe they will sponsor a foreign team indefinetly? Why do you think they are in Zagreb anyways? I believe that by around 2020 KHL will have a number of teams from big cities across Europe, even on the expense of some mediocre Russian teams that, like Medvescak, cant support themselves and arent profitable. Thats what they need to do if they want to compete with the NHL.

I believe that they will stay because they wont get as much attendance and attention anywhere with such a small amount of money. They are in Zagreb because of their will to expand to new (for them western) markets, good attendance and most importantly because of good connections between the KHL leaders and MedveÅ¡čak board. They are certainly not here to develop our young players.

 

[cave troll]

Why do you think they are in Zagreb anyways?.

Maybe for same reason Rosneft and Gazporm management went to Zagreb for busness talks with government, of for the same reason Gazprom is sponsoring the regional handball league which is growing and in which your teams will compete next year?

 

[cave troll]

I believe that they will stay because they wont get as much attendance and attention anywhere with such a small amount of money. They are in Zagreb because of their will to expand to new (for them western) markets, good attendance and most importantly because of good connections between the KHL leaders and MedveÅ¡čak board. They are certainly not here to develop our young players.

This market is especially important for them, since is the only market on mediterranean in which they can enter.
They entered with Sberbank, and they want to enter with oil companies.
TBH, the amount of sponsoring money they give to Medvescak is nothing for them.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Conclusion is?
All roster from U-20 2014 will play in seniors?
Cool, GB U-18 barely manged to avoid relegation in 2B. In 3-4 years, GB senior team will fall to 2B.
That's the same logic.

No... it's not the same logic.

He was saying that Croatia using imports was a way to get Croatia players more experience against better competition. I actually agree with the logic but if the U20 team is playing at such a low level and still getting relegated while playing D2 Senior countries, is the future really that bright?

GB U18 had a bad tournament but at least it was against countries that are in the same division as GB in the senior ranks (+south korea D1A) and their leading scorer was a 98 born.

 

[cave troll]

He was saying that Croatia using imports was a way to get Croatia players more experience against better competition..

Ceratainly.
Like I wrote, you don't know what it's like to play in 2A.
Croatia without imports is floating between 1B and 2A. To weak for 1B, too strong for 2A.
What's wrong for hockey to have another strong 1B team?
It's isn't done with 20 imports. Biggest part of the team are domestic players.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Ceratainly.
Like I wrote, you don't know what it's like to play in 2A.
Croatia without imports is floating between 1B and 2A. To weak for 1B, too strong for 2A.
What's wrong for hockey to have another strong 1B team?
It's isn't done with 20 imports. Biggest part of the team are domestic players.

nevermind lol you seem to be missing the point just to miss the point.

 

[Medo]

It's isn't done with 20 imports. Biggest part of the team are domestic players.

Agree. We are discussing here as if we had 20 foreigners playing. Look at the score sheet today and who scored.

 

[zamo86*]

I believe that they will stay because they wont get as much attendance and attention anywhere with such a small amount of money. They are in Zagreb because of their will to expand to new (for them western) markets, good attendance and most importantly because of good connections between the KHL leaders and MedveÅ¡čak board. They are certainly not here to develop our young players.

Yes, they are in Zagreb to expand westwards but mainly because their dream markets (like Germany for example) are currently still off limits. Sure Zagreb might have a team for good, but at the end good relationship between Medvescak and KHL wont matter when the league would be possibly deciding betwen an unsustainable team from Zagreb and lets say a profitable team from Berlin, Cologne, Hamburg, Hannover, Dusseldorf etc. It simple really. At the end the sustainability will be the most important factor.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Agree. We are discussing here as if we had 20 foreigners playing. Look at the score sheet today and who scored.

I looked at the score sheet and saw 0 goals against for a team that has 4 import D-men. Ken MacAulay, Alan Letang, and Geoff Waugh are great Croatian hockey names though. Just like Bryan Young on South Korea.

 

[Medo]

We keep on returning to those 3

We'll never agree so its pointless.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

We keep on returning to those 3

We'll never agree so its pointless.

Well don't say "look at the scoresheet" and then ignore half the scoresheet it's utter nonsense.

 

[zamo86*]

Maybe for same reason Rosneft and Gazporm management went to Zagreb for busness talks with government, of for the same reason Gazprom is sponsoring the regional handball league which is growing and in which your teams will compete next year?

Those companies deal with Governments from all over the world. In recent years they are investing a lot in the Balkans area . Dont know if you realize but they are planning a massive almost 20 billion euros worth project in the region.

 

[cave troll]

Those companies deal with Governments from all over the world. In recent years they are investing a lot in the Balkans area . Dont know if you realize but they are planning a massive almost 20 billion euros worth project in the region.

No problem.
We'll see what will be in 2020.

 

[SoundAndFury]

While you were talking about nothing here Lithuanians outshot Poles 35-30 (surely due to the score effects but still), lost 3-2 and had a goal disallowed in the process. So if I were you my Croatians friends I wouldn't get too excited about Croatia's "realistic" third place finish.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

While you were talking about nothing here Lithuanians outshot Poles 35-30 (surely due to the score effects but still), lost 3-2 and had a goal disallowed in the process. So if I were you my Croatians friends I wouldn't get too excited about Croatia's "realistic" third place finish.

Croatia will be happy not to get relegated and with 2 wins, they've accomplished that. Anything after that is a bonus. This is already the most wins they've ever had in D1.

 

[bobbeaver]

Oh man you guys are keep asking the same questions i answer thirty times about Medvescak and what it does with improvement to the player pool and infrastructure. So ill make this very breif! more kids training hockey than ever in all clubs, EBYL and probably later EBJL leagues, future farm team (maybe even this year if Olimpija fusion falls through), massive popularity and good reputation in all of croatia, pressure for infrastructure and development of it to be built, resulting in 1 small ice rink to be built for kids training and 1 new arena being built in Zagreb, preassure and very possibly for 1 out door ice rink to be roofed(and a great and very enthusiastic club could work properly than where interest is great for the sport), and pressure for another to be fully roofed/finished, opening of many non regulation open ice rinks for public raising the popularity of the sport. Popularity will and could help other cro teams get better funding for a team composed of seniors in cro league to play in INL league to have better conditions and be semi pros. oh and lets not forget teaching future coaching staff, like our NT coach MacLean, and Kolombo (u-18 and u-20 NT) and possibly our coaches on the lower development levels (hopefully). If the club gets its act together and really puts effort into the hockey school like they said they would and the farm team that would be a huge leap forward. Also the possibility for the farts in the Croatian Hockey Federation to be able to do something to help the sport and start doing their jobs.
Cro NT and its success and giving the Cro players ability to play vs better teams and make the players better (with the help of a few canadians) is the second driving force of the whole thing so the NT has a reputation among our players and the public.

Medvescak i sustainable for many reasons. one of the best attendances, best fans, best events and there for a name and league prestigue , NA-Russian rivalry, excellent friendship with KHL leadership, Russian part of the money is from companies running business in the country and only 50% at most( might be less, trade secrite), sport success with small budget, more fans in NA than any other KHL club, modern and agile promotion and PR with a great reputation. this is just part of it.