WC: 2014 Division IB • Apr. 20-26 • General Discussion (Mod warning post 453)

[Siamese Dream]

He could have easily got American citizenship but he didn't want it lol

Same thing with Brendan Perlini. He could have committed to GB but instead he decided he wanted to rep Canada so if in 10 years his career flames out and he goes to Europe, he can't change his mind to play for GB.

If he was actually good enough to realistically play for USA, I bet he would have pursued that option over gaining eligibility for GB.

Actually he can, if he plays in the EIHL for 4 seasons. Another stupid IIHF rule

 

[Exarz]

Yes there were problems with it, and now we have none in the team, because many many people, including myself, do not want them there.

If the GB team was filled with EIHL Canadians I would not support them. I want to watch players who were developed in the junior system I am a part of, not an EIHL all star team.

By these standards, I believe the Swede William Nylander (born -96, top 5 prospect for this year's draft) isn't Swedish? He's born in Canada, started playing hockey in North America, and came to Sweden last season. The reason he did this is because his father, Michael Nylander, played in the NHL at this moment, but it doesn't make his son Swedish?

Might be a bit off topic, but I just want to compare that to Croatia. As Medvescak Zagreb will develop better hockey players in the future, there won't be many North Americans in the Croatian nationalteam.

May I also ask what's wrong with playing for a country where your is heritage from? A lot of immigrants play for "their" country in football (as one example)

 

[zamo86*]

In a few years the Croatian team will be full of KHL players, even if GB iced a team full of naturalised players we wouldn't stand a chance because we just have the EIHL, because Russian oligarchs didn't put a team in our country. How is that fair?

Thats a big IF. Personally I doubt Zagreb will host a KHL team beyond 2020. By then there probably wont me much clubs in the league that arent profitable and able to sustain themselves. Not just the team from Zagreb, but some Russian too.

 

[Medo]

May I also ask what's wrong with playing for a country where your is heritage from? A lot of immigrants play for "their" country in football (as one example)

There's nothing wrong and its normal in modern sport. If they had won we wouldn't be having this discussion. Simple as that.

Thats a big IF. Personally I doubt Zagreb will host a KHL team beyond 2020. By then there probably wont me much clubs in the league that arent profitable and able to sustain themselves. Not just the team from Zagreb, but some Russian too.

According to you Slovenians and your predictions we shouldn't have lasted beyond 2009. in the EBEL.

 

[Siamese Dream]

By these standards, I believe the Swede William Nylander (born -96, top 5 prospect for this year's draft) isn't Swedish? He's born in Canada, started playing hockey in North America, and came to Sweden last season. The reason he did this is because his father, Michael Nylander, played in the NHL at this moment, but it doesn't make his son Swedish?

Might be a bit off topic, but I just want to compare that to Croatia. As Medvescak Zagreb will develop better hockey players in the future, there won't be many North Americans in the Croatian nationalteam.

May I also ask what's wrong with playing for a country where your is heritage from? A lot of immigrants play for "their" country in football (as one example)

"Last season" No, he's been there since he was 15. He has played in Sweden during a crucial part of his development curve. He is not the same as some dude who has moved to a different country after the prime of his career. He is also not the same as someone who moved there to get better training and development, his move there was a move back home.

Yes Croatia will develop their own players better in the future thanks to Medvescak, so what's the point of having dual nationals then? It's just a quick short term fix.

What's "wrong" with it is it doesn't accurately reflect the state of the game in that country and the level of investment and coaching. The IIHF actually states in their own documents that is what they are aiming to achieve with international competitions, these eligibility rules, while still more restrictive than other sports, still do not achieve that.

 

[cave troll]

Croatia is developing their youth. Your U-18 got trashed 7-1, a month ago.

 

[Siamese Dream]

There's nothing wrong and its normal in modern sport. If they had won we wouldn't be having this discussion. Simple as that.

Do not flatter yourselves, this debate has been going on (in other threads) since long before this tournament

I even stated my views in this very thread, on the 2nd page, again before the puck was even dropped so do not use the "sour grapes" argument

 

[Siamese Dream]

Croatia is developing their youth. Your U-18 got trashed 7-1, a month ago.

I'll ask again then, what's the point of the dual nationals when your juniors are doing so well?

 

[zamo86*]

By these standards, I believe the Swede William Nylander (born -96, top 5 prospect for this year's draft) isn't Swedish? He's born in Canada, started playing hockey in North America, and came to Sweden last season. The reason he did this is because his father, Michael Nylander, played in the NHL at this moment, but it doesn't make his son Swedish?

Might be a bit off topic, but I just want to compare that to Croatia. As Medvescak Zagreb will develop better hockey players in the future, there won't be many North Americans in the Croatian nationalteam.

That can easily be made a special case or a special rule.

Medvescak is playing pro hockey for 5-6 years now and nothing has changed in the Croatian youth development programme, its still non-existent. Medvescak is pouring money in their first team, not one ice rink has been built during that time, all Croatian national team selections are on the same level as before. Even if the current A team gets promoted it wont be the first time Croatia will play there.

 

[Exarz]

"Last season" No, he's been there since he was 15. He has played in Sweden during a crucial part of his development curve. He is not the same as some dude who has moved to a different country after the prime of his career. He is also not the same as someone who moved there to get better training and development, his move there was a move back home.

Yes Croatia will develop their own players better in the future thanks to Medvescak, so what's the point of having dual nationals then? It's just a quick short term fix.

What's "wrong" with it is it doesn't accurately reflect the state of the game in that country and the level of investment and coaching. The IIHF actually states in their own documents that is what they are aiming to achieve with international competitions, these eligibility rules, while still more restrictive than other sports, still do not achieve that.

I was 100% sure he came last season, my mistake!

I'll ask again then, what's the point of the dual nationals when your juniors are doing so well?

I won't answer if it's right or wrong, but I believe it's just as bad as in football when immigrants represent "their" country internationally, right?

 

[Medo]

Yes Croatia will develop their own players better in the future thanks to Medvescak, so what's the point of having dual nationals then? It's just a quick short term fix.

"Old" Croatian players won the last two games. Naturalized players just got us stability and leadership. D is strong and the team work is superb. Coaching and discipline are the biggest reason why this team is so much better now compared to the previous years with almost identical roster. Also, we need the national team players for KHL quota. Why wouldn't we use the system in our favor? Get over it. You don't get the funding while playing Turkey and Bulgaria in Div3.

What's "wrong" with it is it doesn't accurately reflect the state of the game in that country and the level of investment and coaching.

Level of investment? We should be elite division if that is the criteria. Medveščak even as a poor KHL team has a huge payroll. Its nonsense and Medveščak's KHL team has nothing to do with development of youngsters and they certainly won't develop there. Farm team in either INL or Mol might have something with it. So far we don't have a team there. Maybe in next few years.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Level of investment? We should be elite division if that is the criteria. MedveÅ¡čak even as a poor KHL team has a huge payroll.

What is Russian oil money doing for your grass roots development then?

 

[Exarz]

That can easily be made a special case or a special rule.

Medvescak is playing pro hockey for 5-6 years now and nothing has changed in the Croatian youth development programme, its still non-existent. Medvescak is pouring money in their first team, not one ice rink has been built during that time, all Croatian national team selections are on the same level as before. Even if the current A team gets promoted it wont be the first time Croatia will play there.

You don't think it will change now when they joined the KHL?

There's a difference between EBEL and KHL. The second one gives more publicity and more money, so I can almost guarentee there will be better developed Croation junior players from now on.

 

[Medo]

Do not flatter yourselves, this debate has been going on (in other threads) since long before this tournament

I even stated my views in this very thread, on the 2nd page, again before the puck was even dropped so do not use the "sour grapes" argument

It was discussed and people moved on. Only reason why you pulled the discussion back from the history was because you lost.

 

[Medo]

What is Russian oil money doing for your grass roots development then?

Nothing. Why should it? That's a professional team in a professional league. Path for developing the youngsters is very different from the KHL one.

 

[Siamese Dream]

It was discussed and people moved on. Only reason why you pulled the discussion back from the history was because you lost.

Go back to page 11 and get your facts right, it wasn't even me, it wasn't even a GB fan, who brought this discussion back

Nothing. Why should it? That's a professional team in a professional league.

Exactly, they're investing in a professional team, not development of youth.

 

[cave troll]

I'll ask again then, what's the point of the dual nationals when your juniors are doing so well?

Being present in 1B while waiting for youngsters to mature?
Noone wants to be in 2A swamp again.
You don't know what is it. Bunch of amateurs who are getting trashed by us with 5-10 goals of difference while playing on 50%.

Look, many players with croatian heritage passed through our league in last 4 years, and they were released before eligibility. If the goal was to make them eligible, now the in NT would have been Kinasewich, Naglic, Hecimovic, Yelovich, Ouzas and I would have placed 100€ bet that we will play in 1A next year.
Now we have a NT with 70% of domestic players who are doing good in 1B.
That's a big achievement for us.

 

[cave troll]

Exactly, they're investing in a professional team, not development of youth.

Youth is playing in U-18 EBEL. International league.

 

[Medo]

You don't think it will change now when they joined the KHL?

There's a difference between EBEL and KHL. The second one gives more publicity and more money, so I can almost guarentee there will be better developed Croation junior players from now on.

Nothing without the new rinks and new clubs for regional international competitions. 18 rounds of Croatian league won't develop new Rendulić's. Only way young Croatian player can improve now is by moving abroad at the very young age. Hockey federation is still stuck in the past. KHL certainly is helping in terms of popularity of the game and in terms of attracting the better players to come here to play and become eligible for our national team. You'd never see players like Dekanich, Popovic or Katic in EBEL.

 

[Medo]

Go back to page 11 and get your facts right, it wasn't even me, it wasn't even a GB fan, who brought this discussion back

I'm talking about the period when the mods said enough is enough

Exactly, they're investing in a professional team, not development of youth.

And whats wrong with having a pro team of that caliber and why shouldn't that team use the options that they have at their disposal? IIHF rules are clear and they are not breaking them.

 

[zamo86*]

According to you Slovenians and your predictions we shouldn't have lasted beyond 2009. in the EBEL.

Sure . There is no way the Russians will financialy support a foreign team indefinetly. Sooner or later the league will move to places where teams are able to support their big budgets on their own and are profitable.

 

[Exarz]

Nothing without the new rinks and new clubs for regional international competitions. 18 rounds of Croatian league won't develop new Rendulić's. Only way young Croatian player can improve now is by moving abroad at the very young age. Hockey federation is still stuck in the past. KHL certainly is helping in terms of popularity of the game and in terms of attracting the better players to come here to play and become eligible for our national team. You'd never see players like Dekanich, Popovic or Katic in EBEL.

Exactly!

Shouldn't the hockey federation also move forward now with Medvescak in the KHL?

 

[Medo]

Youth is playing in U-18 EBEL. International league.

U18, U20 and senior team. Without that forget about it. Just u18 isn't enough.

 

[Siamese Dream]

IIHF rules are clear, and they are stupid

Petr Nedved was allowed to play for two different countries in Olympics, that's just ridiculous

 

[Medo]

Sure . There is no way the Russians will financialy support a foreign team indefinetly. Sooner or later the league will move to places where teams are able to support their big budgets on their own and are profitable.

MedveÅ¡čak's money is like peanuts for their international sponsors. Almost not even worth mentioning.