Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread

[Zil]

But... but... it's basically the same team as last year. You guys worry too much.

I mean, seriously. The in and out in the lineup is not the important thing here. Staying:

Hank
McDonagh
Girardi
Staal
Moore
Klein
Kreider
Stepan
Nash
Zuccarello
Brassard
St. Louis
Hagelin
Moore

This is the same frickin hockey team.

We lost five of our 18 regular skaters from last year. That's over a quarter of the lineup. If that's not major turnover and a loss of depth then I don't know what is.

 

[aufheben]

We've lost...our #2C; a 2nd pairing defensemen who was frequently our best behind McDonagh; 2/3 of arguably the best 4th line in the league, and by far the best I've ever seen in Blue, and our best penalty killer..

4 out of our 7 lines/pairings are have been broken up. We'll see. As much as we liked to **** on Brad Richards, we made it to the ECF twice in his 3 years here.

Out:

Boyle
Stralman
Dorsett
Pouliot
Richards

In:

D. Boyle
Glass

 

[Tawnos]

We lost five of our 18 regular skaters from last year. That's over a quarter of the lineup. If that's not major turnover and a loss of depth then I don't know what is.

3 of those 5 players were bottom 6 forwards. The other two I barely considered as integral to the team's success. What made the team successful is still there. Speed, high end defense, and great goaltending.

But honestly, it's more galling to me that people feel the need to make these crazy sweeping statements about where the team will be 10 months from now. 12 months ago, what exactly did our roster look like? We turned over 3 players during the season last year. 5 players in one off-season isn't really that big of a deal, especially when you consider who they are. The depth will sort itself out. It's not like we're looking to Haley and Newbury again.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

Random question but does anyone think Anthony Duclair had a chance of making the team this year as possibly a 2nd/3rd line winger? I think this kid is a stud and we really struck gold last year picking him in the third round.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

3 of those 5 players were bottom 6 forwards. The other two I barely considered as integral to the team's success. What made the team successful is still there. Speed, high end defense, and great goaltending.

But honestly, it's more galling to me that people feel the need to make these crazy sweeping statements about where the team will be 10 months from now. 12 months ago, what exactly did our roster look like? We turned over 3 players during the season last year. 5 players in one off-season isn't really that big of a deal, especially when you consider who they are.

I agree 100%, last year at this time everyone was complaining we have no forward depth, why is Boyle still here, why sign this bust named Pouillot, can we count on Zucc and Kreider. I can keep going but the point is we had more question marks last off season

 

[aufheben]

Lol did we even lose, like, anyone last offseason?

Eminger, Hamrlik, and Clowe? lirl

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I will agree that it is WAY too early to make any kind of sweeping generalizations.

But I also think it's entirely fair to view this team as having taken a step back. As I do. It's not an insurmountable step, and it is not really anything that could have been avoided. So not much use crying over spilled milk in this instance.

To me, less than the loss of any one player, the biggest concern I have is depth. Right now 2-3 kids are essentially going to be slotted onto the opening night roster because there is no other option. Sink or swim time. But if they sink, or 2-3 forwards get injured...the Rangers could be in a world of hurt.

 

[aufheben]

I will agree that it is WAY to early to make any kind of sweeping generalizations.

But I also think it's entirely fair to view this team as having taken a step back. As I do. It's not an insurmountable step, and it is not really anything that could have been avoided. So not much use crying over spilled milk in this instance.

To me, less than the loss of any one player, the biggest concern I have is depth. Right now 2-3 kids are essentially going to be slotted onto the opening night roster because there is no other option. Sink or swin time. But if they sink, or 2-3 forwards get injured...the Rangers could be in a world of hurt.

I'm definitely not saying we've taken a step in any negative direction, just think the team has definitely been altered by a bit, IMO.

Although, I obviously hold guys like Stralman and Boyle in very high esteem.

 

[Zil]

3 of those 5 players were bottom 6 forwards. The other two I barely considered as integral to the team's success. What made the team successful is still there. Speed, high end defense, and great goaltending.

But honestly, it's more galling to me that people feel the need to make these crazy sweeping statements about where the team will be 10 months from now. 12 months ago, what exactly did our roster look like? We turned over 3 players during the season last year. 5 players in one off-season isn't really that big of a deal, especially when you consider who they are. The depth will sort itself out. It's not like we're looking to Haley and Newbury again.

Who did we replace them with? As much as Richards is toast, he posted 51 points last year. Pouliot potted 36. Boyle and Dorsett were two thirds of a fourth line that won us multiple games. We have almost no cap space and the only forward we've added is Glass.

Going from

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

to

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-KID-St. Louis
KID-Brassard-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-KID

Is a major loss of the depth that made us so dangerous last year. We're weaker up front and we're weaker defensively. The only place we've upgraded is point production from the blue line, which will mostly factor in on the powerplay.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

As far as the PP goes, I like the idea of putting McDonagh and Boyle at the point on their off wings, the Rangers haven't had a right handed QB at the point, since well, Zubov I suppose. I know that a lot of coaches like to have the point men play on their strong side to keep the puck in on the rim jobs so either way you run it I think it's a positive.

Kreider is still learning the game and will get better in front and Brassard, St. Louis, Stepan and Zuccarello can all run the half wall effectively. Again it's on Nash to be a force here as well. In the end it will be better. Marginally better IMO, but better. 18-19% would be a good goal

 

[Tawnos]

Who did we replace them with? As much as Richards is toast, he posted 51 points last year. Pouliot potted 36. Boyle and Dorsett were two thirds of a fourth line that won us multiple games. We have almost no cap space and the only forward we've added is Glass.

Going from

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett

to

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-KID-St. Louis
KID-Brassard-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-KID

Is a major loss of the depth that made us so dangerous last year. We're weaker up front and we're weaker defensively. The only place we've upgraded is point production from the blue line, which will mostly factor in on the powerplay.

To be honest, I'm not seeing a huge difference in those two forward groups. Why, you ask? Because the truly important components are still there.

Richards production isn't that hard to make up. Besides, it's not really his production we need to account for. It's Callahan's.

We should have cap space to add another forward. I'm hoping it's a winger. 3 unproven kids in a lineup is, admittedly, asking for a bit much. 2 should be completely fine.

 

[Beacon]

^^^^

You heard it here first. We're a bad, marginal playoff team with no depth.

I've predicted our finish the last 5 years. The last few, I created special threads for it. I was right every single time. Did I look stupid in October following my prediction that we will contend this year? Sure, but ultimately I was right.

Not only was I right about how we'll do, but I was right for the reason we'll struggle or succeed.

If this team will go to battle as created today (plus a couple of rookies and marginal role players like Carcillo), we will be struggling to make the playoffs the whole season and will get eliminated in the first round.

This is a badly constructed team. Step is a below average #1C, Brass is a below average #2C, Miller is unknown and Moore is ok as a 4C, but below average as a 3C if Miller can't handle the task.

The wings are ok in the top-6 (MZA, MSL, Rash, Kreider), but the bottom-6 lacks any depth. Hags is good, Fast is unknown, Glass is Glass. Who else do we have? Carcillo? A rookie? And what happens when we get a couple injuries? In 2013, we wound up calling up random minor leaguers like Segal, Mashinter, Newbury, Haley, Ferriero and a bunch of unready rookies (Kreider, Miller, Thomas) hoping one of them would stick, though none ever did. The current roster has worse depth. We literally do not have 8 wingers who could handle the job, not to mention 2-3 more replacements.

We have 6 proven NHL wingers (including Glass) and then we have to rely on multiple rookie wingers just to fill up the roster. Again, who plays the wing when we get injuries? Hell, who plays center when we get injuries there? And what happens if we can't get 3 rookie forwards (Miller and two wingers) to perform this year? What squad do we run?

 

[Tawnos]

Something that's overlooked here... who in our division got better?

Carolina: Stayed the same
Columbus: Added Hartnell, lost Nikitin. Could be very good. Especially if Murray and Johansen take steps forward
New Jersey: Added Cammalleri, lost Fayne. I don't see them being any better.
Islanders: Added Kulemin, Grabovski, Halak. If it works, they could be back to where they were two years ago. More question marks there than here.
Philadelphia: Basically the same team, minus Hartnell, plus Umberger. Full season of MacDonald. I don't see much improvement there.
Pittsburgh: On the surface, Ehrhoff makes them better... except he's going to be filling the role that Niskanen just vacated. Neal out, Hornqvist in. Vitale out, Spaling in. Honestly, a lot of their season is hinging on what Beau Bennett can bring (sound familiar?).
Washington: Niskanen makes them better. Orpik doesn't. I don't see much more there either.

The two wild cards here are what coaching changes will do in Pittsburgh and Washington. Even if we took a step back, it isn't like our division has shifted in balance of power. If other team's young players will take steps forward, why not ours?

 

[Zil]

To be honest, I'm not seeing a huge difference in those two forward groups. Why, you ask? Because the truly important components are still there.

Who gave us more trouble? Was it Pittsburgh with their couple of superstars but thin roster? Or was it LA with their never ending cascade of quality depth? Kopitar didn't kill us in that series. In fact no single King really destroyed us. The whole damn team beat us.

The difference between last year's Rangers team and every other of the Lundqvist era was not the addition of a superstar. Last year's squad had quality up and down the lineup. That's how we got so close to the Cup.

Richards production isn't that hard to make up. Besides, it's not really his production we need to account for. It's Callahan's.

What? St. Louis replaced Callahan. Richards is being replaced by JT Miller. If he doesn't morph into a Brandon Dubinsky clone or better this year, then we're going to see a drop off.

We should have cap space to add another forward. I'm hoping it's a winger. 3 unproven kids in a lineup is, admittedly, asking for a bit much. 2 should be completely fine.

We might add someone, but there's not a whole lot out there, especially at our price range. We'll see.

 

[Beacon]

Something that's overlooked here... who in our division got better?

Carolina: Stayed the same
Columbus: Added Hartnell, lost Nikitin. Could be very good. Especially if Murray and Johansen take steps forward
New Jersey: Added Cammalleri, lost Fayne. I don't see them being any better.
Islanders: Added Kulemin, Grabovski, Halak. If it works, they could be back to where they were two years ago. More question marks there than here.
Philadelphia: Basically the same team, minus Hartnell, plus Umberger. Full season of MacDonald. I don't see much improvement there.
Pittsburgh: On the surface, Ehrhoff makes them better... except he's going to be filling the role that Niskanen just vacated. Neal out, Hornqvist in. Vitale out, Spaling in. Honestly, a lot of their season is hinging on what Beau Bennett can bring (sound familiar?).
Washington: Niskanen makes them better. Orpik doesn't. I don't see much more there either.

The two wild cards here are what coaching changes will do in Pittsburgh and Washington. Even if we took a step back, it isn't like our division has shifted in balance of power. If other team's young players will take steps forward, why not ours?

So at a minimum, nobody got worse.

Columbus: likely improved.

NJ: Cammy is better than Fayne. Many of their young players were not ready before, but will improve with time.

Island: Definitely got better. Halak and Ocho stabilize their goaltending, Grabber is a good second line center. Kulemin adds depth. They may not be a good team yet, but they sure as hell are better.

Philly: about the same, but if anything better with Mac there for the whole season.

Pitts: About the same.

Wash: Niskanen and Orpik make their defense much better. You may not like Orpik, but he does give them more depth and size.

Arguably 5 out of 7 teams in the division got better and none got worse except the Rangers.

 

[vladmyir111]

Didn't the Hawks lose like a third of their team after the first cup? **** happens, bottom line players will bolt for money due to their new found fame. The team didn't go to the finals because of some irreplaceable PK work by Boyle.

 

[vladmyir111]

So at a minimum, nobody got worse.

Columbus: likely improved.

NJ: Cammy is better than Fayne. Many of their young players were not ready before, but will improve with time.

Island: Definitely got better. Halak and Ocho stabilize their goaltending, Grabber is a good second line center. Kulemin adds depth. They may not be a good team yet, but they sure as hell are better.

Philly: about the same, but if anything better with Mac there for the whole season.

Pitts: About the same.

Wash: Niskanen and Orpik make their defense much better. You may not like Orpik, but he does give them more depth and size.

Arguably 5 out of 7 teams in the division got better and none got worse except the Rangers.

Nice stretch there.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Random question but does anyone think Anthony Duclair had a chance of making the team this year as possibly a 2nd/3rd line winger? I think this kid is a stud and we really struck gold last year picking him in the third round.

I would think this year of his development camp is good that they might try him in preseason he'd have to make a hell of an impact to stay tho he is only 18 and can't play with the wolf pack yet

 

[NewLife]

Nice stretch there.

Not really, while Orpik got an awful contract he's a pretty solid player and much better than most of the guys the Caps have iced regularly in recent years.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

MSL will cover cally and Richards points combined

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

I really trust AV to round out this team to want he wants like he did last year. Zucc and brass made poo, Hags and MSL covered for Richards slow *** and IMO Moore makes that fourth line go. AV likes duos brass zucc, stepan Kreider and maybe this coming year it'll be Miller and MSL

I'll wait to midway into the season before I just start.spewing crap

 

[Kakko]

Realistically, regardless of who else we sign, I think it comes down to what we get from Girardi, Nash and MSL.

Do we get the all-star versions of those guys, or the 'crap' we saw last year?

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Realistically, regardless of who else we sign, I think it comes down to what we get from Girardi, Nash and MSL.

Do we get the all-star versions of those guys, or the 'crap' we saw last year?

I'm pretty sure your only implying to Nash

 

[Blue Blooded]

Realistically, regardless of who else we sign, I think it comes down to what we get from Girardi, Nash and MSL.

Do we get the all-star versions of those guys, or the 'crap' we saw last year?

Girardi is what he is, he's been basically the same for a while now and was always carried by Staal/McDonagh. Expectations rose, and he couldn't keep up. His all-star nomination was a joke.

MSL isn't what he once was and has been in decline for several seasons. His Art Ross was an anomaly in a short season where he picked up a ridiculous amount of secondary assists. He is a 1-way ~60 point forward at this point. He needs good defensive players to cover for him. St. Louis-Richards was a total disaster in the playoffs, not even Hagelin could cover for that defensive disaster.

Nash is the 2nd best "volume shooter"-type player in the league 5v5 (after Pacioretty). He creates a lot of offence and scores a lot of goals, but this comes at the expense of defence and assists as he doesn't use his linemates well. Ovechkin and Carter are players in the exact same mould (slightly worse 5v5, much better 5v4 esp. Ovi). We can expect something in between 12-13 and 13-14 from Nash. I'd peg him at something like: 36-34-70 depending on PP time.

My key factors for 14-15:

Was Boyle hampered by his concussion last year and improve this one?

Can McDonagh take another step? Girardi is holding him back significantly, and I'd even like to try Klein as McD's partner over G (McD-Boyle would likely be a disaster though).

Can Hagelin bounce back? He was still good in 13-14, but it was still a step below how good he was in 11-12 and 12-13. When he is on, he is one of the better 5v5 wingers in the league.

Will AV put Zucc and Kreider back together again (preferably with Stepan)? Kreider is a bad fit with Nash as they are similar in player type, Zucc is a possession monster and one of the best playmakers in the league. I think a Kreider-Zucc combo for most of the season will have Kreider score 30.

AV needs to keep Nash and MSL on separate lines at all costs. Both bleed chances against like there is no tomorrow and a line with them both is likely to be a complete liability.

If we keep Brassard, he and Zuccarello needs to be on the top PP unit as they are our best PP forwards. Yes, better than St. Louis.

 

[alkurtz]

Our core is essentially the same. In a cap dominated world it is essential that there is a steady flow of young, cheaper players into the line up to fill in the bottom six forward slots and 3rd paid D. There is simply no other way to operate.

It is simply amazing how so many here are always advocating trading for draft picks but when those picks are ready to play in the NHL, many don't want to give them extended looks.

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of Miller, Fast, and Lindberg being regulars next year. If injuries strike our D, I have guarded confidence that McI and Allen can do the job.

To me, continued success hinges largely in how much improvement we see from our established young core: Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, McD, Moore, et al. If they improve just a bit, we will be absolutely fine.

I wish we were stronger at center, but don't see a way that will happen. I wish we could have kept Strals but we couldn't. No team is perfectly constructed, certainly we are not. That is the cap world. Aside from the Bruins, and they too have "issues," no team in the east is a lock for the playoffs: it is wide open. Every team has flaws.

As long as we have Hank, our D remains healthy, we have our speed, and everyone else performs to expectation, we should be right in the mix. If we see some improvement from our young core, we will be more than fine. Tinkering around the edges is the norm for successful teams up against the cap. It is inevitable that such teams lose people. We've lost some vital parts but not from our core. It's time to plug in some younger players and see what they can do.