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Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

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Ola said:
McI is far from a Purinton II, but OTOH the game is diffrent now too...
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understand (although I really haven't seen McIlrath to fairly comment). The post was more in regards to having a player whose main purpose is to fight and intimidate and who otherwise isn't NHL caliber (goes for the big hits, gets out of position, etc., assuming he doesn't improve).
 
Aufheben said:
How much do you think he's worth in a trade? I'd rather just keep him and see how he pans out.

I also don't see what Dan Boyle has to do with McIlrath "being ready".

And how does McIlrath have more trade value than Klein?
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I think McIlrath could be worth a "change of scene" offensive prospect. Maybe a Brett Connolly type. That is the kind of deal I would look to make.

Dan Boyle puts another RHD ahead of McIlrath on the depth chart. Girardi, Boyle and Klein are ahead of him on depth chart and unless McIlrath can outplay at least one of them, (if he can out play Klein then they can trade Klein but I don't see this happening), he is locked out of the NHL lineup for at least two years while Boyle is on the roster. Remember, Vigneault did not pick McIlrath so he may not rate him so that hill may be even more steep to climb.

Klein (was) worth Michael del Zotto. I assume McIlrath returns something better than Michael del Zotto.
 
Savant said:
I think McIlrath could be worth a "change of scene" offensive prospect. Maybe a Brett Connolly type. That is the kind of deal I would look to make.

Dan Boyle puts another RHD ahead of McIlrath on the depth chart. Girardi, Boyle and Klein are ahead of him on depth chart and unless McIlrath can outplay at least one of them, (if he can out play Klein then they can trade Klein but I don't see this happening), he is locked out of the NHL lineup for at least two years while Boyle is on the roster. Remember, Vigneault did not pick McIlrath so he may not rate him so that hill may be even more steep to climb.

Klein (was) worth Michael del Zotto. I assume McIlrath returns something better than Michael del Zotto.
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I think his value is... not even close to that.

McIlrath has much more value to this organization as a player than as an asset. Last thing I want to see, after all the patience and waiting with this kid, is to throw him away for a 2nd/3rd round draft pick, and watch him become a nasty mother****er of a d-man for some other team.
 
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Aufheben said:
I think his value is... not even close to that.

McIlrath has much more value to this organization as a player than as an asset. Last thing I want to see, after all the patience and waiting with this kid, is to throw him away for a 2nd/3rd round draft pick, and watch him become a nasty mother****er of a d-man for some other team.
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Like the Flyers. That would be brutal.
 
Aufheben said:
I think his value is... not even close to that.

McIlrath has much more value to this organization as a player than as an asset. Last thing I want to see, after all the patience and waiting with this kid, is to throw him away for a 2nd/3rd round draft pick, and watch him become a nasty mother****er of a d-man for some other team.
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Rangers traded Andre Dupont to the Blues in the Gene Carr deal in the early 70's. Dupont was a recent first round pick and would go on to be an integral part of the Broad St. Bullies Philadelphia Flyers that went on to win two Stanley Cups. Dupont was one of the toughest and meanest defensemen of his era--a top 4 defenseman on a team that contended pretty much every year for the Stanley Cup for at least a decade. Carr didn't do a hell of a lot for us. Bill Chadwick--the Rangers TV color man use to say all the time that Carr's shot couldn't hit the ocean if he were standing on the end of a pier.
 
Setoguchi???

One guy that I can't seem to understand why he is still not signed is Setoguchi.

I get that he is coming off a poor season. But he can still score 20 goals given the right line mates. I feel that he would fit in very well in our more fast paced system. He is a finisher and skates pretty well. To me he is a much better option in top 9 than Lombardi and Stempniak. He is also younger at 27...

Cap - if we can get him for say $.9 then he can replace Fast or Mueller in lineup and we can afford him.

Possible Lines:
Nash - Stepan - Kreider
Setoguchi - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - St.Louis
Glass - Moore - Stempniak
Lombardi


This would give us great depth! Stempniak and Moore and Lombardi could easily move into top 9 in case of injuries in top 9!
 
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There's no reason to trade McIlrath until the waivers come into consideration. The Rangers have a guy in Kevin Klein that took a traditional development curve for a defenseman, 2 years in juniors, 4 years in the minors. Saw a spell in the AHL in his 5 year pro, bottom pair player his 1st full NHL season, then a reliable top 4 defenseman since.

I see McIlrath on that same curve given the organizational depth. The Rangers can trade a pick or another asset for a Connolly.

This isn't a case of Michael Del Zotto where a player regressed after 22.
 
Mikos87 said:
There's no reason to trade McIlrath until the waivers come into consideration. The Rangers have a guy in Kevin Klein that took a traditional development curve for a defenseman, 2 years in juniors, 4 years in the minors. Saw a spell in the AHL in his 5 year pro, bottom pair player his 1st full NHL season, then a reliable top 4 defenseman since.

I see McIlrath on that same curve given the organizational depth. The Rangers can trade a pick or another asset for a Connolly.

This isn't a case of Michael Del Zotto where a player regressed after 22.
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When is McIlrath waiver eligible?
 
Evgeny Oliker said:
One guy that I can't seem to understand why he is still not signed is Setoguchi.

I get that he is coming off a poor season. But he can still score 20 goals given the right line mates. I feel that he would fit in very well in our more fast paced system. He is a finisher and skates pretty well. To me he is a much better option in top 9 than Lombardi and Stempniak. He is also younger at 27...

Cap - if we can get him for say $.9 then he can replace Fast or Mueller in lineup and we can afford him.

Possible Lines:
Nash - Stepan - Kreider
Setoguchi - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - St.Louis
Glass - Moore - Stempniak
Lombardi


This would give us great depth! Stempniak and Moore and Lombardi could easily move into top 9 in case of injuries in top 9!
Click to expand...


I don't agree with your line combos but I like the idea. Low risk signing that gives us more depth. For 900k, Seti makes us a better team.
 
Vidic15 said:
When is McIlrath waiver eligible?
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I asked the same question earlier in the thread. I think during the fall of the 2016-17 season... after he turns 24.

Plenty of 23 year old players went without hitting the waiver wires that came through the junior route, but I'm not sure, there are a bunch of factors that come into waiver consideration.

Anyone know for sure?
 
Evgeny Oliker said:
One guy that I can't seem to understand why he is still not signed is Setoguchi.

I get that he is coming off a poor season. But he can still score 20 goals given the right line mates. I feel that he would fit in very well in our more fast paced system. He is a finisher and skates pretty well. To me he is a much better option in top 9 than Lombardi and Stempniak. He is also younger at 27...

Cap - if we can get him for say $.9 then he can replace Fast or Mueller in lineup and we can afford him.

Possible Lines:
Nash - Stepan - Kreider
Setoguchi - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - St.Louis
Glass - Moore - Stempniak
Lombardi


This would give us great depth! Stempniak and Moore and Lombardi could easily move into top 9 in case of injuries in top 9!
Click to expand...

Not that hard to fathom. He sucks, pretty plainly.
 
Evgeny Oliker said:
One guy that I can't seem to understand why he is still not signed is Setoguchi.

I get that he is coming off a poor season. But he can still score 20 goals given the right line mates. I feel that he would fit in very well in our more fast paced system. He is a finisher and skates pretty well. To me he is a much better option in top 9 than Lombardi and Stempniak. He is also younger at 27...

Cap - if we can get him for say $.9 then he can replace Fast or Mueller in lineup and we can afford him.

Possible Lines:
Nash - Stepan - Kreider
Setoguchi - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - St.Louis
Glass - Moore - Stempniak
Lombardi


This would give us great depth! Stempniak and Moore and Lombardi could easily move into top 9 in case of injuries in top 9!
Click to expand...

Setoguchi just is not a good player. This is clear to those who have seen him play lately.
 
Mint said:
Is there factual evidence that defensive dmen take longer to develop, or is it something that everyone has bandwagon'd on?

It probably has to do I with them filling out their bodies and all.
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Ds in general take a really long time to develop. I haven't done it in a while, but usually if you take a group of Ds, say like 75-105 in ice time or whatever, and check when the Ds made it / really established themselves it sticks out just how many that made it around 23-28... Usually a quite year around 23-25 and then they are 26-28 before they really get there...
 
If you look at Jeff Beukeboom--a player McIlrath models a bit after--Jeff was picked at the tail end of the 1st round in the 1983 draft. He went back to juniors for two years--had a full year in the AHL--split two seasons between the NHL and AHL--played a full season with Edmonton in 87-88--had another split season between the NHL and AHL the next season. In all that time he played very few of the available playoff games (even in his full year in 87-88) and the Oilers were often winning Cups--so there were a lot of them.

Anyway it takes time for a lot of defensemen to get their bearings in pro hockey. Patience is important. From what I've seen of McIlrath at the NHL level (which isn't much)--he's been way too tentative. The physical game is there --he just has to bring the rest of his game with him.
 
Most of the players have 3 years of waiver exemption. Most of the players begin their careers at 20. 3 year contracts. At the end of that contract, they are waiver eligible. Some players don't play the required games played to lose the exemption before 3 years.
 
All this talk of moving McIlrath for a Connolly-type... He has more value, but I'm high on Kucherov, and I'd explore that in a heartbeat if it was at all a possibility.

Still, though, it's probably best to see how McI develops. We're thin on promising Righty d-men, and his snarl is something we sure could use in front of the net.
 
OnlyRevolutions said:
All this talk of moving McIlrath for a Connolly-type... He has more value, but I'm high on Kucherov, and I'd explore that in a heartbeat if it was at all a possibility.

Still, though, it's probably best to see how McI develops. We're thin on promising Righty d-men, and his snarl is something we sure could use in front of the net.
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You don't get Kucherov for McIlrath. In fact it is Kucherov who may have made Connolly available.
 
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