2014-2015 General Wild Discussion Thread IV

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Victorious Secret

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Fletcher has shown that he isn't afraid to make the big trades to make a competitive team but he also hasn't shown a lot of flexibility that makes him a top tier GM. He's decent at acquiring talent (Dubnyk, Kobasew, Coyle) but terrible at selling it (Kobasew, Brunette, Mitts). He's also made some blunders that have really tightened Minnesota's ability to make moves to continue improving their team. You'd expect that from a rookie GM but someone 5-6 years into their job?

Cal Clutterbuck? 6th rounder for Matt Kassian? Marek Zidlicky? 2nd for Belanger? Setoguchi? Got a fair amount for some crap players. We got a surprisingly lot for Zidlicky. Kind of hard to sell players for value when we didn't have much of value to trade.

His drafting has been pretty mediocre as well but that could be due to his scouts or the guys handling these prospects after they are drafted. No one expects to hit every draft or every mid-round draft pick. In fact, I am pretty hopeful for guys like Belpedio, Labbe, and Graovac will develop into good players. My argument with mid-round picks isn't these guys should develop into NHL players for the Wild but they should have the potential to develop into NHL players, period.

Drafting has been better than average in his reign. Picking projects the last 2-3 years may turn out to be not the best idea. But this is also on the scouting department and Brent Flahr. We've done pretty well on our mid to late round picks. Our high picks have been mediocre stock.

You can't keep letting players walk and giving up assets without sacrificing depth. I agree that Minnesota has a deep team in the NHL (or when everyone is healthy) but that depth is only pond deep. Once injuries start to bunch up, that's when you see the depth problems Minnesota has. We've gotten better with depth where Warren Peters isn't a first line center because of signings but that's because they came outside the organization and that ties up cap space as you're going to be competing for another guy's service. Maybe you get lucky? Maybe you don't? and they fit in.

Who have we let walk recently? Heatley? Falk? I think we've only let players walk that didn't have much value anyways. At the time, each person was worth more to the team than they could get in trade. Which wouldn't have been much, anyways.

Overall, I'd say Fletcher has done a good job. Other than hire a good coach, he's done pretty well.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
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Cal Clutterbuck? 6th rounder for Matt Kassian? Marek Zidlicky? 2nd for Belanger? Setoguchi? Got a fair amount for some crap players. We got a surprisingly lot for Zidlicky. Kind of hard to sell players for value when we didn't have much of value to trade.

Or do we not think they have value and they actually do? Zidlicky was a good trade, Belanger was a good trade, Setoguchi and Clutterbuck were good trades. You then have the Burns trade, the Kobasew trade (but that was more of us giving things up for nothing essentially), the Barker trade. Not to mention the Powe trade and the Staubitz trades.

Drafting has been better than average in his reign. Picking projects the last 2-3 years may turn out to be not the best idea. But this is also on the scouting department and Brent Flahr. We've done pretty well on our mid to late round picks. Our high picks have been mediocre stock.

We haven't done really well in our mid picks. Late round have been decent but early to mid have been pretty mediocre. And if this is also on the scouting department and Brent Flahr, they should start replacing them and getting some different perspective. The organization has been pretty stagnant in terms of turnover, which I want to see this off-season because either the scouts or the coaches/GM (in Iowa) is dropping the ball big time. We're either picking the wrong players or we're developing them so they look like we're picking the wrong players.

Who have we let walk recently? Heatley? Falk? I think we've only let players walk that didn't have much value anyways. At the time, each person was worth more to the team than they could get in trade. Which wouldn't have been much, anyways.

I'd think he could have handled the Stoner and Cullen situation better along with the Powe situation (you can't tell me someone like Powe wouldn't have had some value at the deadline. ). I really wouldn't be surprised if he let Brodziak walk.

Ultimately, Fletcher has been okay getting to the playoffs through free agency but I don't think he's done really well creating a sustainable or flexible organization. Crazy enough, some of his better moves have been because of Riser's drafting (Clutterbuck, Burns) or trades (Zidlicky). Furthermore, the depth on this team has been worrisome especially at defense but hopefully next year that gets better with another season from Dumba and Folin in the AHL and Labbe coming in. The flexibility on this team has been a concern as well (and you can see that in the trade speculation forum).
 
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Dr Jan Itor

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Or do we not think they have value and they actually do?

Nobody will ever know.

Zidlicky was a good trade, Belanger was a good trade, Setoguchi and Clutterbuck were good trades. You then have the Burns trade, the Kobasew trade (but that was more of us giving things up for nothing essentially), the Barker trade. Not to mention the Powe trade and the Staubitz trades.

I don't think there's a team in the league that goes 100% on all of their pending UFA's. I think we've done fine; not great, but fine.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
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Nobody will ever know.

We didn't even really try in the beginning. A few here or there (Belanger is the one that sticks out most).

I don't think there's a team in the league that goes 100% on all of their pending UFA's. I think we've done fine; not great, but fine.

Mediocre in the beginning, fine later on only because we don't have a lot of UFA. And no, not every team is able to move their pending UFAs but some are able to move more than others. Even teams that are competing.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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We didn't even really try in the beginning. A few here or there (Belanger is the one that sticks out most).



Mediocre in the beginning, fine later on only because we don't have a lot of UFA. And no, not every team is able to move their pending UFAs but some are able to move more than others. Even teams that are competing.

You and I and everybody here have no idea about their level of 'trying' in those instances.
 

Engebretson

Thank you, sweet rabbit
Nov 4, 2010
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get real hockey article about undrafted college players any thoughts on a guy like robbie russo? http://www.getrealhockey.com/undrafted-college-hockey-seniors-nhl-teams-will-calling/

Robbie Russo was drafted by the Isles in 2011... unless that article is talking about him being a Free Agent if the Isles elect to not give him an entry level deal?

Also, it's an article about undrafted College free agents but of the three guys they talk about as being undrafted NHLers (St. Louis, Giordano, Tyler Johnson) only St. Louis actually played college hockey. Just found that funny.

Back on topic, I wouldn't mind going after a guy like CJ Motte to add to our goalie prospects. Would be nice to see him playing in Iowa for a season or two to see if he can handle the pro game.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
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You and I and everybody here have no idea about their level of 'trying' in those instances.

We kind of do; the Boogaard deal that fell through wasn't really on Fletcher but we know there was interest in Nolan. I wouldn't be surprise if there wasn't interest in Brunette and Mitts. As well, I thought there was some scuttlebutt about Cullen but we couldn't move him because of depth issues.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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We kind of do; the Boogaard deal that fell through wasn't really on Fletcher but we know there was interest in Nolan. I wouldn't be surprise if there wasn't interest in Brunette and Mitts. As well, I thought there was some scuttlebutt about Cullen but we couldn't move him because of depth issues.

Depth issues and the fact that he was our 2nd line center on what ended up being a playoff team. Moving him wasn't exactly an option at the time.
 

DANOZ28

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May 22, 2012
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sorry about the article with bad info on robbie russo. if memory serves pens were very interested in cullen (per espn not eklund). i will always disagree with dont trade a guy if theres a hope and prayer we'll make the playoffs. one eye on the future is my moto. also if you cant win without one guy your probably not good enough!
 

Victorious Secret

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Or do we not think they have value and they actually do? Zidlicky was a good trade, Belanger was a good trade, Setoguchi and Clutterbuck were good trades. You then have the Burns trade, the Kobasew trade (but that was more of us giving things up for nothing essentially), the Barker trade. Not to mention the Powe trade and the Staubitz trades.

For the Burns trade, who knew we'd blow 3 players? Yup. That one sucks now. Powe was our best PKer and we got rid of him for the worst NHL player we've ever had, which I honestly believe. We gave up a 5th rounder for a semi-okay facepuncher in Staubitz. I'd rather dismiss low ranking moves for how relevant they aren't when all we needed was 3-4 guys to score 20 goals.

We haven't done really well in our mid picks. Late round have been decent but early to mid have been pretty mediocre. And if this is also on the scouting department and Brent Flahr, they should start replacing them and getting some different perspective. The organization has been pretty stagnant in terms of turnover, which I want to see this off-season because either the scouts or the coaches/GM (in Iowa) is dropping the ball big time. We're either picking the wrong players or we're developing them so they look like we're picking the wrong players.

What do we consider mid-round? I think 1-2 is high, 3-5 is mid, 6-7 is late? Fair?

Hits since GM CF has been in office.
2009
High-1 Leddy
Mid-0
Late-2 Kuemper, Haula

2010
High-3 Granlund, Larsson, Zucker
Mid-0 mid round picks
Late-1 Gustafsson will be an NHL goaltender at some point. Solid back-up.

2011
High-1, possibly 2 Brodin and maybe Lucia. Hope still for Lucia
Mid-0 Only mid round pick was Seeler. So far not looking great
Late-Too early to tell. Michalek finally putting things together and Graovac made an appearance and looked competent.

2012
High- Dumba.

Everything else too early to tell. For the mid-round picks, right now we'd be starting to see the return on 2 drafts in which we only had 1 mid-rounder. So, that is bad timing.

Our firsts have been pretty good. Extremely lackluster 2nds. I still think its how we develop. Iowa's team and their record is a good indication. And it clearly wasn't the coaching. They are the buffalo sabres of the AHL.

I'd think he could have handled the Stoner and Cullen situation better along with the Powe situation (you can't tell me someone like Powe wouldn't have had some value at the deadline. ). I really wouldn't be surprised if he let Brodziak walk.

Ultimately, Fletcher has been okay getting to the playoffs through free agency but I don't think he's done really well creating a sustainable or flexible organization. Crazy enough, some of his better moves have been because of Riser's drafting (Clutterbuck, Burns) or trades (Zidlicky). Furthermore, the depth on this team has been worrisome especially at defense but hopefully next year that gets better with another season from Dumba and Folin in the AHL and Labbe coming in. The flexibility on this team has been a concern as well (and you can see that in the trade speculation forum).

I think Cullen was such a locally popular player he didn't want to upset the fanbase. As for Brodziak, I think he is worth more to us if we attempt to make the playoffs. Unless its a first round pick or high 2nd, then pick for sure.

Honestly, I think the depth we have on defense is okay, just underdeveloped. (Blum, Folin, Dumba for the 5 and 6 spots.) I hate calling them 5 and 6s as that has a negative connotation of they shouldn't play many minutes. But on a competently coached team they'd be getting 15-18 minutes. Which is a hell of a lot. But all three of those have high offensive ability and are okay defensively.

I think we are at the point asset wise where we are passing our limit. After how many years of being far below what we need to be a solid team we are reaching the equilibrium of having a nice team and having extra to gamble in a trade.

I'm still of mind that GMCF has done the best with what he had and he was in a gigantic hole to start his tenure.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
1. Why are we talking about trading Dubnyk? There isn't any other team in the league that needs a starting goalie. Not getting anything close to the 3rd rounder we gave up for him.

2. Why are we (or one person) constantly talking about Fletcher dealing depth players from five years ago? Let it go. There hasn't been a high end player headed toward free agency under Fletcher's watch.

Here are the impeding UFA's for this year:
- Brodziak
- Carter
- Prosser
- Dubnyk

That's two fourth liners, an AHL defenseman they claimed off waivers, and the goalie they just spent a 3rd round pick on and will likely extend.

So we can ***** and moan about missing out on that 5th/6th round pick for Brodziak or you can take a deep breath and worry about things in life that matter, like what you're going to have for lunch today.
 

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
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I don't know what you'd expect to get in return for Dubnyk. A mid-round pick won't make much of a difference to this team. Makes no sense to trade him. If you do, you either need to start playing Bäckström again and risk him getting injured or call up Curry or Gus and thus offer the fans a worse product. I don't think we'll make the playoffs at this stage, but that doesn't mean it's sensible to throw in the towel completely.

It's not "you guys" only one person here wants to trade Dubnyk.
 

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
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M9OaAD1.jpg


Look at that smile Parise has. Why would you take that away from him?
 

rynryn

Reluctant Optimist. Permanently Déclassé.
May 29, 2008
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Can we get rid of the trade the guy whose 6-1 with .943 Sv%, 1.48 GAA and 3 shutouts in 8 starts theory all together?

some people subscribe to the idea that you should do everything you can to be worse if your team doesn't have a realistic shot at the cup. not the playoffs--the cup. So essentially you'll have 26 teams trying to tank every year after a certain point and 4 going for the cup. fun right?
 

Minny Lakes

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Apr 4, 2013
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some people subscribe to the idea that you should do everything you can to be worse if your team doesn't have a realistic shot at the cup. not the playoffs--the cup. So essentially you'll have 26 teams trying to tank every year after a certain point and 4 going for the cup. fun right?

:handclap::handclap::handclap:
 

Wild11MN

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I think there's no reason to trade Brodziak. I'd say he's a very solid 4th line center who's good defensively. Playing better than last year for sure. At this point, we don't need him to score, so those "PING"s off the pipe aren't killing us. We never hit on 3rd rounders as you guys have mentioned, so why trade him for that?
 

Streetcandy

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Jan 9, 2015
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For the Burns trade, who knew we'd blow 3 players? Yup. That one sucks now. Powe was our best PKer and we got rid of him for the worst NHL player we've ever had, which I honestly believe. We gave up a 5th rounder for a semi-okay facepuncher in Staubitz. I'd rather dismiss low ranking moves for how relevant they aren't when all we needed was 3-4 guys to score 20 goals.



What do we consider mid-round? I think 1-2 is high, 3-5 is mid, 6-7 is late? Fair?

Hits since GM CF has been in office.
2009
High-1 Leddy
Mid-0
Late-2 Kuemper, Haula

2010
High-3 Granlund, Larsson, Zucker
Mid-0 mid round picks
Late-1 Gustafsson will be an NHL goaltender at some point. Solid back-up.

2011
High-1, possibly 2 Brodin and maybe Lucia. Hope still for Lucia
Mid-0 Only mid round pick was Seeler. So far not looking great
Late-Too early to tell. Michalek finally putting things together and Graovac made an appearance and looked competent.

2012
High- Dumba.

Everything else too early to tell. For the mid-round picks, right now we'd be starting to see the return on 2 drafts in which we only had 1 mid-rounder. So, that is bad timing.

Hackett is probably worth a mention too if you have Larsson on there. I'd also change the ranges, I believe the ranges are more 1-10, 11-30, 30-90, 90+.

I think people don't realize the actual odds of guys making it. The average team probably gets 2 regulars and a plug each draft. For me its more quality than quantity but thats more of an issue of where we're picking.
 

Victorious Secret

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Hackett is probably worth a mention too if you have Larsson on there. I'd also change the ranges, I believe the ranges are more 1-10, 11-30, 30-90, 90+.

I think people don't realize the actual odds of guys making it. The average team probably gets 2 regulars and a plug each draft. For me its more quality than quantity but thats more of an issue of where we're picking.

You mean the guy that could have been freely claimed by any team in the NHL and all 29 others passed him up? Ya. I don't think so.
 

Wild11MN

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What's the rule relating to starting the season in the minors and waivers? Not that this will happen, but could we leave Kuemper down there at the start of the season without sending him through waivers? And could that theoretically happen with Backstrom with his no-movement clause? (yeah, I know we'll buy him out)
 

Minnewildsota

He who laughs last thinks slowest
Jun 7, 2010
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You mean the guy that could have been freely claimed by any team in the NHL and all 29 others passed him up? Ya. I don't think so.

You mean the kid that was coming back from his ALC tear?
And they would have to house him after his conditioning stunt on the NHL team. Yeah can't imagine why he wasn't claimed.
 

Streetcandy

Registered User
Jan 9, 2015
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You mean the guy that could have been freely claimed by any team in the NHL and all 29 others passed him up? Ya. I don't think so.

Yet you include Larsson, a guy who can't crack the worst team of this decades lineup? I'm having issues on where you draw the line as I'd probably prefer Hackett over Gustafsson right now (who was also included on your list).

As for why he was passed over, nobody wanted to claim an unproven goalie that had just gotten back from tearing his ACL and MCL. He still has plenty of time to recover from that and make an impact in the NHL.
 
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