2014-2015 General Wild Discussion Thread IV

Status
Not open for further replies.

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
16,024
268
Minnesota
Because it's a smart organizational move. Trade him at the deadline, sign him back in the offseason?

I'm sure the guy who has moved 5 times in the last year, who just moved his family to Minnesota, will be just thrilled to come back to a team that he was playing exceedingly well on that traded him for a pick that has a maybe 10% of being an NHL player. Come on.
 

gphr513

Watch the world burn
Jan 14, 2014
17,728
629
Minneapolis, MN
Yeah I can't imagine Dubnyk would feel any kind of loyalty whatsoever to us if we dealt him at this point...

He'd probably really dislike GMCF if he pulled a stunt like that
 

Blizzard6411

#benchstoner
Feb 12, 2013
1,880
0
Seattle
Because it's a smart organizational move. Trade him at the deadline, sign him back in the offseason?
.
Trade for a goalie to get back into the play off hunt. Once said goalie gets you back in hunt then trade him at the dead line?

And if CF did that he would be a more worthy GM in your eyes?
 

FVM

This does not please me.
Jan 26, 2010
4,311
280
Vantaa, Finland
People say the Wild only need average goaltending and they're fine. To do what? Yeah, Wild get to playoffs with that, but all the way to a Cup? I doubt that. I'd say the last average goalie to win the Cup was Antti Niemi behind a loaded Chicago team 2010. Most of the time the winner has at least above average goaltending, if not elite. It's just so tough to win four consecutive playoff series that your holes and weaknesses tend to get ruthlessly exposed.

For this year I'm fine with Dubnyk-Kuemper tandem. If Dubnyk stays hot we might make the playoffs and go on a deep run. But for the future, I'm not sure. I'd still like to see a legit goalie talent here. Skaters are starting to be set, with some minor fixes like a reliable 3rd pairing D. Dubnyk of course has a great audition period here. If he plays well for the reminder of the season, he just might be a real #1 option. He's only 28 after all. It's just that with his current pedigree I'd be hesitant to make that call.
 

rynryn

Reluctant Optimist. Permanently Déclassé.
May 29, 2008
33,512
3,537
Minny
People say the Wild only need average goaltending and they're fine. To do what? Yeah, Wild get to playoffs with that, but all the way to a Cup? I doubt that. I'd say the last average goalie to win the Cup was Antti Niemi behind a loaded Chicago team 2010. Most of the time the winner has at least above average goaltending, if not elite. It's just so tough to win four consecutive playoff series that your holes and weaknesses tend to get ruthlessly exposed.

For this year I'm fine with Dubnyk-Kuemper tandem. If Dubnyk stays hot we might make the playoffs and go on a deep run. But for the future, I'm not sure. I'd still like to see a legit goalie talent here. Skaters are starting to be set, with some minor fixes like a reliable 3rd pairing D. Dubnyk of course has a great audition period here. If he plays well for the reminder of the season, he just might be a real #1 option. He's only 28 after all. It's just that with his current pedigree I'd be hesitant to make that call.

I think they're hoping Kuemper will get his head checked and he'll end up being that goalie. Hoping youth and inexperience are what caused the meltdown this year. Kuemps has been a fantastic goalie at other levels, and proved he could put up good numbers in the NHL.

I do think our team is built to cover for what hole is exposed by average goaltending though--when healthy. Our top four are excellent at moving the puck and our forwards are really capable in maintaining possession--when we're healthy and playing aggressive we don't give up much in the way of shots that require great saves.
 

BurnsyMN

Registered User
Mar 27, 2014
1,626
0
St Paul
People say the Wild only need average goaltending and they're fine. To do what? Yeah, Wild get to playoffs with that, but all the way to a Cup? I doubt that. I'd say the last average goalie to win the Cup was Antti Niemi behind a loaded Chicago team 2010. Most of the time the winner has at least above average goaltending, if not elite. It's just so tough to win four consecutive playoff series that your holes and weaknesses tend to get ruthlessly exposed.

For this year I'm fine with Dubnyk-Kuemper tandem. If Dubnyk stays hot we might make the playoffs and go on a deep run. But for the future, I'm not sure. I'd still like to see a legit goalie talent here. Skaters are starting to be set, with some minor fixes like a reliable 3rd pairing D. Dubnyk of course has a great audition period here. If he plays well for the reminder of the season, he just might be a real #1 option. He's only 28 after all. It's just that with his current pedigree I'd be hesitant to make that call.

If Dooby takes us on a deep run, he absolutely deserves a contract here. I'd be fine with running Darby and Dooby next season. We're not going to magically find an elite goalie who plays 60 games a season. Dooby looks confident in net and the Wild have a ridiculous record when the goalie has a 92 save % or better.
 

Jesus comma Brodin

Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
Feb 22, 2013
7,631
3,092
Minnesota
People say the Wild only need average goaltending and they're fine. To do what? Yeah, Wild get to playoffs with that, but all the way to a Cup? I doubt that. I'd say the last average goalie to win the Cup was Antti Niemi behind a loaded Chicago team 2010. Most of the time the winner has at least above average goaltending, if not elite. It's just so tough to win four consecutive playoff series that your holes and weaknesses tend to get ruthlessly exposed.

For this year I'm fine with Dubnyk-Kuemper tandem. If Dubnyk stays hot we might make the playoffs and go on a deep run. But for the future, I'm not sure. I'd still like to see a legit goalie talent here. Skaters are starting to be set, with some minor fixes like a reliable 3rd pairing D. Dubnyk of course has a great audition period here. If he plays well for the reminder of the season, he just might be a real #1 option. He's only 28 after all. It's just that with his current pedigree I'd be hesitant to make that call.

I see what you're saying with this for sure and if I wanted, I could dig through my posts and you would find me saying the same thing about needing an ELITE tender but with that said, it isn't that easy ya know. How many really elite tenders are there? (Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, Rinne, Price?)

Edit: After re-reading your post, you did say above average or elite...
 
Last edited:

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,576
1,693
Trade for a goalie to get back into the play off hunt. Once said goalie gets you back in hunt then trade him at the dead line?

And if CF did that he would be a more worthy GM in your eyes?

This is if the team doesn't make the playoffs, which at this point is uncertain. You think Moulson and McCormick felt slighted that Buffalo traded them?
 

Nharris31

Registered User
Aug 9, 2013
4,433
225
I see what you're saying with this for sure and if I wanted, I could dig through my posts and you would find me saying the same thing about needing an ELITE tender but with that said, it isn't that easy ya know. How many really elite tenders are there? (Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, Rinne, Price?)

Edit: After re-reading your post, you did say above average or elite...

Take out Quick then you have it right.
 

10coach*

Registered User
Feb 21, 2014
3,098
0
Anyone know what the video is called that some minnesota guys released in response to Canada's this is our game video? It had a great soundtrack and showed clips of areas of minnesota and hockey players in a lot of different arenas ranging from youth to high school.

And no it's not the state of hockey video the wild put on the scoreboard. Think it came out about 3-4 years ago. it was a great video.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,576
1,693
Hilarious. No other word for it. This happens all the time, right? Get real. Seriously.

Moulson and McCormick last season.

Are you saying that Buffalo is a better destination and team than Minnesota? Why else would Moulson go back to Buffalo instead of another team? As well as McCormick?

Keith Tkachuk went back to St. Louis (the conditions were a little different but he still returned to the team).

Mark Recchi did it with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Marty Reasoner and the Oilers.

It's not unprecedented that a team that isn't in contention moves a player at the deadline and then signs them back in the off-season.

Does it happen often? Not really, but it can and does happen.

As well, Minnesota has ZERO flexibility right now with their roster and going into next year. After the Parrish buyout, the Heatley issue and the Barker buyout, you think Leipold is going to be be happy buying out yet another player?
 

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
16,024
268
Minnesota
This is if the team doesn't make the playoffs, which at this point is uncertain. You think Moulson and McCormick felt slighted that Buffalo traded them?

OK here we go, no non-playoff team is going to trade for a UFA goalie rental, so what team in a playoff position would want a goalie for this year? No team in the east needs a goalie, the only team in the West I can see is maybe WPG if they don't want to rely on a Rookie completely in the playoffs. A playoff team isn't going to give up very much for a back-up goalie at the deadline. It's clear that Dubnyk appreciates playing for a good team, enjoys winning and has already moved his family here, I'm sure he'd love it if the Wild traded him to a team he's not going to play much for a minimal return.

As well, Minnesota has ZERO flexibility right now with their roster and going into next year. After the Parrish buyout, the Heatley issue and the Barker buyout, you think Leipold is going to be be happy buying out yet another player?

I think he'd rather buy out a player and waste 1.5 million than keep a player and waste 70 on a losing season.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,576
1,693
OK here we go, no non-playoff team is going to trade for a UFA goalie rental, so what team in a playoff position would want a goalie for this year?

Off the top of my head:

Tampa Bay could use a backup
New York Islanders have been asking about a backup
Depending on Calgary's situation and San Jose's situation they both could use backups. Vancouver could use a veteran backup (Lack's been good though). As you said Winnipeg.

As well, we'll see what happens with injuries and how that all plays out. We got a month before the deadline and if a goaltender goes down with an injury, things can change and quick.

A playoff team isn't going to give up very much for a back-up goalie at the deadline. It's clear that Dubnyk appreciates playing for a good team, enjoys winning and has already moved his family here, I'm sure he'd love it if the Wild traded him to a team he's not going to play much for a minimal return.

Few games, come back home. Unfortunately in sports, you're going to be moving around a lot. And we're not talking about a lot here, we're talking about getting some flexibility moving forward in the next year or so. For a GM that wanted more flexibility and was quoted as he was treating draft picks and prospects like gold, Fletcher has moved more prospects and picks than Riser ever did.


I think he'd rather buy out a player and waste 1.5 million than keep a player and waste 70 on a losing season.

Backstrom's contract is for two more years if they buyout him out this year. His contract ends at the end of next year. They might consider biting the bullet and keeping him as a veteran backup for Kuemper/Dubnyk (if he signs back). They handled this goaltending situation extremely poorly though and kind of got themselves locked.
 

Dr Jan Itor

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
46,646
21,451
MinneSNOWta
Still a dumb gamble for a highly mediocre return. No thanks.

Backstrom getting bought out is a forgone conclusion at this point.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,576
1,693
What I want is what every other fan wants here on the forums; to win a Stanley Cup (or two). Yes, we are going to bicker and fight about how to get there but the two goals that I want this franchise to show is long-term sustainability and flexibility. I don't want to be Carolina and a one and done team that wallows at the bottom for years after a successful Cup run. I want this organization to be like Los Angeles or Chicago or Detroit, where it isn't a question on if we get to the playoffs but how far we get in the playoffs.

What makes teams like Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit so good is their flexibility. It isn't a surprise that they have some of the better development programs in the NHL, which creates turnover and tinkering with the roster to see what works and what doesn't work. And yes, no team is going to have the best prospect system in the league and the best team in the league, that isn't feasible. What you can have is a top 15 prospect system and a top 10 team that is competitive year after year.

Fletcher has shown that he isn't afraid to make the big trades to make a competitive team but he also hasn't shown a lot of flexibility that makes him a top tier GM. He's decent at acquiring talent (Dubnyk, Kobasew, Coyle) but terrible at selling it (Kobasew, Brunette, Mitts). He's also made some blunders that have really tightened Minnesota's ability to make moves to continue improving their team. You'd expect that from a rookie GM but someone 5-6 years into their job?

His drafting has been pretty mediocre as well but that could be due to his scouts or the guys handling these prospects after they are drafted. No one expects to hit every draft or every mid-round draft pick. In fact, I am pretty hopeful for guys like Belpedio, Labbe, and Graovac will develop into good players. My argument with mid-round picks isn't these guys should develop into NHL players for the Wild but they should have the potential to develop into NHL players, period.

If we can develop them into a useful player that we can trade like Clutterbuck, all the better. But it's about creating sustainability and flexibility, something that Riser was never able to do and that Fletcher is struggling with.

You can't keep letting players walk and giving up assets without sacrificing depth. I agree that Minnesota has a deep team in the NHL (or when everyone is healthy) but that depth is only pond deep. Once injuries start to bunch up, that's when you see the depth problems Minnesota has. We've gotten better with depth where Warren Peters isn't a first line center because of signings but that's because they came outside the organization and that ties up cap space as you're going to be competing for another guy's service. Maybe you get lucky? Maybe you don't? and they fit in.

I am taking a macro view instead of a micro view of this situation, which will always cause friction. Franchises sometime have to look at the micro and the macro view to really get a good look at the organization and they have to be willing to make some sacrifices. Some of them won't work out (Barker), some of them will (el Nino) but you have to be willing to make them and be willing to understand that sometimes in order to make a team better, you have to be the buyer and the seller.
 

Spurgeon

Registered User
Nov 25, 2014
6,035
1,997
MinneSNOWta
Trading Dubnyk (even if we struggle) really doesn't make much sense to me. Not many buyers and you're definitely not going to get much in return.
 

Dr Jan Itor

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
46,646
21,451
MinneSNOWta
That's all well and good, but what we're saying is that in this particular case, the case of trading Dubnyk, it is not a good idea.

As far as Brodziak goes, I think that with the Cooke injury, that ship has sailed. They're going to want more veteran presence in the bottom 6 than just Ryan Carter. I'd be surprised if Brodziak was dealt now.
 
Last edited:

gphr513

Watch the world burn
Jan 14, 2014
17,728
629
Minneapolis, MN
So, is the "trade Dubnyk" theory to go back into tank mode, miss the playoffs, get a better draft pick, and hope Dubnyk isn't too upset and decides to sign back after being here for like 2 weeks?

If so, no thanks....
 

Jesus comma Brodin

Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
Feb 22, 2013
7,631
3,092
Minnesota
So, is the "trade Dubnyk" theory to go back into tank mode, miss the playoffs, get a better draft pick, and hope Dubnyk isn't too upset and decides to sign back after being here for like 2 weeks?

If so, no thanks....

Can we get rid of the trade the guy whose 6-1 with .943 Sv%, 1.48 GAA and 3 shutouts in 8 starts theory all together?
 

plock

Sonic Reducer
Oct 5, 2013
1,256
0
Mill City
I think the big question is what they do with Kuemper next year.I assume Backstrom gets bought out at the end of this season and I would be pretty nervous about a Dubnyk /Kuemper tandem.Do you think they would or should go after Niemi,resign Dubnyk to back him up and start Kuemper in Iowa or go with Niemi/Kuemper?
 

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
16,024
268
Minnesota
So, is the "trade Dubnyk" theory to go back into tank mode, miss the playoffs, get a better draft pick, and hope Dubnyk isn't too upset and decides to sign back after being here for like 2 weeks?

If so, no thanks....

But we could get a 4th round pick for him, and then when Dubynk doesn't come back, and the pick doesn't pan out we can complain that GMCF traded away our only decent goalie for a mid round pick that historically haven't panned out for this franchise, and complain about our mid-to-late round drafting!
 

DeuceMN

Really?
Oct 1, 2011
2,407
0
Chi-Town, Il
I don't understand why there is any discussion about trading Dubnyk.

It. Just makes. No. Sense.

The one thing we can all agree on is it is way more fun to watch this team when they win.

And goaltending has not exactly been our strong suit this year.
 

Jesus comma Brodin

Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
Feb 22, 2013
7,631
3,092
Minnesota
I think the big question is what they do with Kuemper next year.I assume Backstrom gets bought out at the end of this season and I would be pretty nervous about a Dubnyk /Kuemper tandem.Do you think they would or should go after Niemi,resign Dubnyk to back him up and start Kuemper in Iowa or go with Niemi/Kuemper?

Can we start Kuemper in Iowa without clearing waivers or whatever? Regardless, Niemi's money would be massive compared to Duby and we can fill other holes with the extra $$$ for a 5th-6th Defensemen, Center Depth, etc. It is a risk but we probably need more time on Duby. Also, heard Keumper was great tonight in his AHL shutout for what it's worth.
 

plock

Sonic Reducer
Oct 5, 2013
1,256
0
Mill City
Can we start Kuemper in Iowa without clearing waivers or whatever? Regardless, Niemi's money would be massive compared to Duby and we can fill other holes with the extra $$$ for a 5th-6th Defensemen, Center Depth, etc. It is a risk but we probably need more time on Duby. Also, heard Keumper was great tonight in his AHL shutout for what it's worth.

Kuemper can start the season in Iowa but has to be there before the waiver wire starts which means he would not really be able to participate in the Wilds training camp/preseason.I'm not really clued in to the Wilds cap situation but Niemi would not be cheap.
 

Gaps

Registered User
Oct 3, 2012
3,190
0
I don't know what you'd expect to get in return for Dubnyk. A mid-round pick won't make much of a difference to this team. Makes no sense to trade him. If you do, you either need to start playing Bäckström again and risk him getting injured or call up Curry or Gus and thus offer the fans a worse product. I don't think we'll make the playoffs at this stage, but that doesn't mean it's sensible to throw in the towel completely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad