Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XVII) (Released, Post 1)

[azcanuck]

I love our team. Since salt lake we have chosen very well. Unlike Nagano we take the best players and dare the world to beat us.

Rick Nash was one of the best players at the last olympics. Glad he's on the team.

I like Benn too. Although it's a big rink I like the fact he has some size. We need some of that too.

OUr goaltending is a concern. I've never seen Canada with such limited selection potential.
Alll the guys have question marks. we won in vancouver despite Loungo. He was very shaky. Maybe the experience of the games will help though, I actually prefer him over Price who has won what since being in the NHL? Dont think he's looked that great in the post season.

 

[Peen]

Finding this funny that people prefer Mike Smith the #2 over Luongo. He's given up four horrendous goals this game. Coyotes fans want him bought out.

Look at the scoreboard, and you see Luongo giving up three goals. Kesler OG'd one, but then again, Lou OG'd one himself

 

[Mehar]

DyerMaker66, although I'm not sure, it seems to me that you're a habs fan. As a habs fan myself, please take my advice and stop this Price/Luongo "debate" asap! Thank you so much!

edit: Just so I'm on topic I will add that I am confident in Luongo as the starter and Price as #2, seems like a very solid pairing for Sochi.

I second that. Price has been terrible of late, while Luongo has been excellent in the games i watched him play the last 10 days or so. I want the guy who is playing well right now and not pulled every other game. I want the guy who has won it all for Canada in 2010, and played unbelievable in the 2004 World Cup against the Czechs, and was tremendous as well for Canada in

the World Championships. What has Price done in his career in the NHL or internationally that is so good? He is a tremendous talent, but has failed as well in the NHL Playoffs letting in bad goals in bad times throughout his career. Guy has won nothing of consequence in his career, and watching him play this past week, Luongo should definitely be the starter. This debate has gone on enough. Move on.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I'm sorry, he played great in that last minute. I really loved how he controlled the easy wrister that would've killed the play and allowed the tired Team Canada to get a change, but instead gave the americans possession and allowed them to tie the game.

DM66 is entitled to his opinion, guys - and not just because I agree with him.

And, it is not about Luongo himself. I don't want him as the starter but I can honestly say, if RL were to take the reins and run the table in Sochi, I'd be ecstatic and tattoo his name on my @ss.

Having said that, his performance in 2010 still makes me shake. His play in the 3rd period was sickening - literally. If he had played the puck properly or been able to simply catch it, the game never goes to OT. He barely managed his one tough save in OT (off Pavelski) and I also thought the Kessler goal was weak.

I would love to be wrong. I would love for him to have a .980 save percentage, never give up a bad goal and be the tournament MVP. Let's hope it happens.

 

[Mehar]

DM66 is entitled to his opinion, guys - and not just because I agree with him.

And, it is not about Luongo himself. I don't want him as the starter either but I can honestly say, if RL were to take the reins and run the table in Sochi, I'd be ecstatic and tattoo his name on my @ss.

Having said that, his performance in 2010 still gives me the shivers. His play in the 3rd period was sickening - literally. If he had played the puck properly or been able to simply catch it, the game never goes to OT. He barely managed his one tough save in OT (off Pavelski) and I also thought the Kessler goal was weak.

I would love to be wrong. I would love for him to have a .980 save percentage, never give up a bad goal and be the tournament MVP. Let's hope it happens.

Bottom line is- the debate is between Luongo vs. Price. Canada does not have Quick, Miller or King Henkriq to choose from. It is Luongo vs. Price. I wish Canada had better goalies to choose from, but it is what it is. Price has not been very good watching him the last two weeks. Picking between Price vs. Luongo it is a no-brainer right now. Had about enough of this. Moving on.

 

[huntison]

I love our team. Since salt lake we have chosen very well. Unlike Nagano we take the best players and dare the world to beat us.

Rick Nash was one of the best players at the last olympics. Glad he's on the team.

I like Benn too. Although it's a big rink I like the fact he has some size. We need some of that too.

OUr goaltending is a concern. I've never seen Canada with such limited selection potential.
Alll the guys have question marks. we won in vancouver despite Loungo. He was very shaky. Maybe the experience of the games will help though, I actually prefer him over Price who has won what since being in the NHL? Dont think he's looked that great in the post season.

Won despite luongo? He played great in the Olympics.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Well I guess that explains why you're embarrassing us in this thread.

You're lack of comprehension is embarrassing you.

That and a clear bias against Luongo who has proven himself time and time again. I think Luongo must be the first goalie in history to achieve a loss from the bench. Is it also a shutout since he allowed zero goals?

How do you achieve a shutout when your team gets scored on?

No, the team lost; just like how when Kyle Clifford's team loses, he and his team get credited with a loss. There is no "BUT HE WAS ONLY ON THE ICE FOR 10 MINUTES!!!!" or whatever argument you want to use to justify a loss by Luongo's team.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

I love our team. Since salt lake we have chosen very well. Unlike Nagano we take the best players and dare the world to beat us.

Gotta disagree with ya there: I thought the 2006 team selection was terrible.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

DM66 is entitled to his opinion, guys - and not just because I agree with him.

And, it is not about Luongo himself. I don't want him as the starter either but I can honestly say, if RL were to take the reins and run the table in Sochi, I'd be ecstatic and tattoo his name on my @ss.

Having said that, his performance in 2010 still gives me the shivers. His play in the 3rd period was sickening - literally. If he had played the puck properly or been able to simply catch it, the game never goes to OT. He barely managed his one tough save in OT (off Pavelski) and I also thought the Kessler goal was weak.

I would love to be wrong. I would love for him to have a .980 save percentage, never give up a bad goal and be the tournament MVP. Let's hope it happens.

I whole-heartedly agree. It's not that I don't want Luongo to succeed; I just don't see him as our best option for success.

 

[Big Guy]

How do you achieve a shutout when your team gets scored on?

No, the team lost; just like how when Kyle Clifford's team loses, he and his team get credited with a loss. There is no "BUT HE WAS ONLY ON THE ICE FOR 10 MINUTES!!!!" or whatever argument you want to use to justify a loss by Luongo's team.

Nah, you're just playing games. You used the defeat to discredit Luongo saying that he has choked and lost a Final, when you know very well if he didn't play it has nothing to do with his performance.

You can argue semantics all you want but nobody knows if Luongo would have won or lost the game if he started. It's history. It's a game he did not play.

That's one of many reaches you have used in the past half-dozen pages. I'm calling it as I see it, and I'm not going to play word games with someone like you.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Nah, you're just playing games. You used the defeat to discredit Luongo saying that he has choked and lost a Final, when you know very well if he didn't play it has nothing to do with his performance.

There are many things I've used to demonstrate Luongo's lacklustre play, and yet people like you continue to argue that he's the best option for some reason.

You can argue semantics all you want but nobody knows if Luongo would have won or lost the game if he started. It's history. It's a game he did not play.

Yes: I'm the one arguing semantics, but Luongo was the best player on his team in 2011 when he nearly single-handedly won his team cup while putting up 4 goals against in 4 games and he won us gold in 2010 (and that's basically the only reason I need to say why he should be our starter in 2014).

That's one of many reaches you have used in the past half-dozen pages. I'm calling it as I see it, and I'm not going to play word games with someone like you.

I don't play word games: I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in your point of view.

I'll ask you again, because you chose to ignore it last time: How do you achieve a shut-out in a game your team gets scored on? Oh wait, that's just me playing word games.

 

[Peen]

I whole-heartedly agree. It's not that I don't want Luongo to succeed; I just don't see him as our best option for success.

I just don't get how you don't though.

Career wise, he's posted eleven seasons over 915, and he's on pace for his sixth 920+% season. Who knows what he would have done if Florida gave him a middle of the pack team..

He was a great goalie for us in 2010. You keep alluding to that tying goal. Are we talking about the same goal in which Weber and Niedermayer left Langenbrunner and Parise open? That puck also deflected off of Langenbrunner's skate on the way to the net lol.

The Kesler goal was weak though. IIRC he let it squeak through five hole, or maybe it was under his arm - don't remember.

He's also been consistent for us at the world championships. You can keep alluding to that one year where he didn't play in the final, so it should count as his only elimination game loss.

edit, to add on even more, Carey Price is 9-17 in the playoffs with a 905 sv% and 2.9GAA in the playoffs. Luongo is 32-31 in his playoffs, with a 916 sv% and a 2.54GAA. I think that the only weak playoffs he had was that 09-10 season. I think that was the year where he gave up the seven spot in the elimination game. Other than that, he's been rock solid.

 

[BlueBrunswick]

Looking at his play this year, I’d have to say Luongo will be tapped to be the starter… but make no mistake, goaltending is an issue for team Canada. Our country’s goaltending talent is a couple of aging superstars and a batch of unproven younger net minders and Carey Price. In Luongo you have a superstar goal tender who is past his prime and in Price you have a talented goaltender who has proven to be a workhorse, but who hasn’t really lived up to his hype. Price’s current slump is a concern, it’s not just a few weeks either… look at his stats – in his first 21 games he was on fire, 2.00 GAA and a save percentage at about .936, but since then in the last 21 games it’s been 3.06 and .899… those are his stats over the last 21 games.

In Price we have a proven commodity… he’s been in the league seven years now and has played in over 350 games – his career numbers are 2.55 and .915. In the past six years he’s finish in the top 10 in save percentage twice (7,6) and GAA once (9). During the same stretch of his career Luongo was in the top 10 in save percentage all 6 years and top 10 in GAA once… we keep talking about how poor Montreal’s defence is – anyone remember those Florida teams Luongo played for – they didn’t make the playoffs for 10 straight years and he faced between 32 to 35 shots every night (leading the league a few of those years) … Montreal has had a playoff calibre team in all but one Price’s years in net. Price is a solid goaltender, but he’s not a superstar… the argument can be made, he’s not even the best goaltender to come out of his draft class – Quick and Rask fans could argue their guy is the best of 2005.

BTW, It’s a myth that goal tenders get better with age or peak later… the stats don’t show this (there was actually and interesting article in Macleans about this), Price is a solid goaltender and will probably remain so, but he’s not going to get better as he gets older… as it stands now we are arguing if we should go with a 34 year old Luongo or a 26 year old Price and depending on how they played this year I was willing to go either way, but straight up a 26 year old Luongo beats a 26 year old price every time, but unfortunately that’s not the decision we have to make.

 

[Philly85*]

Gotta disagree with ya there: I thought the 2006 team selection was terrible.

It's not even a question, Torino selection was a debacle.

Time will tell how this tournament and roster turns out but there are most definitely some questionable choices. Personally I feel too much emphasis was put on size.

Overall though I have to say I trust Stevey Y, he's earned some slack after 2010, not to mention, the team is still pretty damn good. It's a real relief they won Gold in Vancouver otherwise the pressure would be about 10 fold going into Sochi.

In regards to the goaltending situation, I believe either Luongo or Price will do a fine job. Smith is imposter scum and I'm genuinely disappointed/sad he's on the team.

In terms of results I'll be satisfied with a bronze, nothing short of that though, still have to medal.

 

[crunchyblack*]

This whole Price vs Lu thing is stupid. It doesn't matter who we want or think should start... We are talking about Team Canada here. The fact of the matter is, Lu will be our goalie for the same reason Nash was added to the roster - previous international performance(s) - which is huge for the Team Canada brass.

 

[Uhmkay]

This whole Price vs Lu thing is stupid. It doesn't matter who we want or think should start... We are talking about Team Canada here. The fact of the matter is, Lu will be our goalie for the same reason Nash was added to the roster - previous international performance(s) - which is huge for the Team Canada brass.

Luongo would have made this team based solely on this years play. He's been the best Canadian Goalie in the world so far this season, so regardless of his past performance, he still makes this team.

Nash I would agree with you on, however the brass selecting the team seem to know what they're doing... moreso then the people complaining that MSL didn't get selected. Nash now has 11 goals in 11 games and there isn't a person left off the roster that I'd prefer took his spot now.

 

[mikeo1]

That's not what I said. I used the 2010 Olympics and 2011 SCF to demonstrate that he was a choker. I said he lost in 2005. Notice my previous two sentences aren't the same.

Goalies are not awarded losses for games they sit on the bench for. Luongo has not lost an elimination game. Period.

PS: Winning the gold medal is not "choking". Your hate is preventing you from thinking clearly.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

There are some of us who just don't have confidence in Luongo. Between the game against the Czechs in 2004 (World Cup in which he let in 2 WEAK goals)

Canada was outshot by a 2-to-1 margin. He stole them the game

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Goalies are not awarded losses for games they sit on the bench for.

His team lost, take that as you will.

Luongo has not lost an elimination game. Period.

Except the SCF in 2011, right?

PS: Winning the gold medal is not "choking". Your hate is preventing you from thinking clearly.

Do you think Joe Thornton played well in 2010? Or does this only apply to goalies?

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Canada was outshot by a 2-to-1 margin. He stole them the game

I have stated this before: Taking into account the number of shots, while failing to look at the quality of said shots means absolutely nothing.

 

[KPower]

It's not even a debate anymore, Luongo will be the starter and will play every game unless he struggles.

 

[Steveorama]

Gotta disagree with ya there: I thought the 2006 team selection was terrible.

The problem in Turin was partially selection, but also tactics.
On the big ice, you MUST be able to counter attack and get the puck up ice before the Euro Trap can set up.
Pat Quinn hockey does not work there. Guys like Pronger, Regehr, Redden and Foote would use the extra ice to take their time moving the puck up ice...and the teams over there trapped Canada into submission.
If Canada is to have any chance to win a gold medal, they MUST advance the pace of the game, quick outs from the zone to forwards moving forward with speed.
If opponents have time to set up a trap in the neutral-zone, it will be Turin all over again.
I think Babcock knows this, based on his team selection, but we will see.

 

[y2kcanucks]

His team lost, take that as you will.



Except the SCF in 2010, right?



Do you think Joe Thornton played well in 2010? Or does this only apply to goalies?

Do you anticipate team Canada to only score 8 goals in 7 games? Because if you so then yes, Luongo may have a problem winning.

Luongo is the best goaltending option for team Canada right now, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm fully confident in Price to backup and come in if Luongo falters, but the job is his to lose. If we get the 2010 Olympic Luongo at the 2014 games then goaltending will not be a problem at all.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

edit, to add on even more, Carey Price is 9-17 in the playoffs with a 905 sv% and 2.9GAA in the playoffs. Luongo is 32-31 in his playoffs, with a 916 sv% and a 2.54GAA. I think that the only weak playoffs he had was that 09-10 season. I think that was the year where he gave up the seven spot in the elimination game. Other than that, he's been rock solid.

Totally agree with your post except for this.

He single handedly turned our momentum around in the LA series, he was great, and even against Chicago in that elimination game he held us in in the 1st period with a number of big saves, we just played like utter crap, Chicago was much better than us, and Luongo couldn't hold the fort and it all came crashing down.

Looking at his play this year, I’d have to say Luongo will be tapped to be the starter… but make no mistake, goaltending is an issue for team Canada. Our country’s goaltending talent is a couple of aging superstars and a batch of unproven younger net minders and Carey Price. In Luongo you have a superstar goal tender who is past his prime and in Price you have a talented goaltender who has proven to be a workhorse, but who hasn’t really lived up to his hype. Price’s current slump is a concern, it’s not just a few weeks either… look at his stats – in his first 21 games he was on fire, 2.00 GAA and a save percentage at about .936, but since then in the last 21 games it’s been 3.06 and .899… those are his stats over the last 21 games.

Career average: .919 SV% - 2.50 GAA

Career high: .928 SV% - 2.11 GAA

Current season stats: .922 SV% - 2.23 GAA


Past his peak? sure, thats fair.

Pask his prime? Absolutely not.

Except the SCF in 2010, right?

Who did he play for? Chicago or Philly? I must have missed it.

 

[86Habs]

The problem in Turin was partially selection, but also tactics.
On the big ice, you MUST be able to counter attack and get the puck up ice before the Euro Trap can set up.
Pat Quinn hockey does not work there. Guys like Pronger, Regehr, Redden and Foote would use the extra ice to take their time moving the puck up ice...and the teams over there trapped Canada into submission.
If Canada is to have any chance to win a gold medal, they MUST advance the pace of the game, quick outs from the zone to forwards moving forward with speed.
If opponents have time to set up a trap in the neutral-zone, it will be Turin all over again.

We didn't select the right players to implement the correct strategy anyway. Losing Niedermayer was a huge blow to the defense corps, and to make matters worse Pronger played injured and was awful, and we decided to formally name McCabe to the team instead of Dan Boyle, who remained on the taxi squad and therefore didn't dress. Boyle wasn't up to Niedermayer's lofty levels, but he would have immediately been our most mobile defenceman and best puck mover from the back end. The problems started there, and replacing Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi up front (or whoever) with Crosby, Staal, Spezza would have had a favourable impact, but wouldn't have been the difference between winning or losing IMO. That simply wasn't a gold medal quality team in 2006.