Proposal: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, and Potential Buyouts | Part II

[John Holmes*]

Briere has a place in Ottawa as far as I know. Him playing here is not too out of the question.

What he has left and where he fits in are the things I'd be concerned with.

I'd at least call his agent if I was the GMBM.

 

[KAPOW]

stopped reading at "nichushkin"


highly doubt we would trade up for him

 

[bacon25]

I'd go after Briere, best player available right now. He's better than Latandresse and is clutch in the playoffs.

 

[Benjamin]

trading Spezza to draft nichushkin is hilarious

 

[pearcey]

Who needs a #1 center on a team trying to compete anyways? This team just needs more picks and prospects.

But honestly, you don't trade players like Jason Spezza. Spezza is the player that teams dream to take 1st overall in most NHL drafts. We're talking about one of the best players at his position in the NHL, playing at the most sought after position there is. If we had a 30+ year old Spezza in 2008? Maybe. But this team just finished making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs while continuing the re-build plan. It's almost over. Why the hell do we take 5 steps back with a trade like this? Sure, he'll be a bit older than the rest of the time while they hit their prime. Using that same logic, should we have dealt Alfie when he was 30+ before our Finals run because he was older than the core of the team? No.

You don't need to look at the names to tell you this is a bad trade for us due to where this team is right now. #1 center (+) for two valuable prospects. This severely impacts how the team competes for the next few seasons and will then see all of our young stars hitting UFA status at the exact same time, all looking to get paid.

This is the time where we make moves to improve our play now. Give up assets that are potentially valuable in the future for those that can produce now. You know, rather than making us mediocre now and having a chance at being good in 4-5 years (where we still have a huge hole at 1st line center).

Seriously, who would be our (permanent) 1st line center? Turris?

EDIT: Looking at that future line-up, we would need EVERYTHING to pan out just peachy. Stone becomes the 1st line winger. Nich is a sure fire 1st line winger. Turris evolves past his 2nd line duties. I'd say the chances of that 1st line being a Stanley Cup winning 1st line are pretty damn slim unless Stone and Turris step their games up tremendously. Jesus.

Look at the second line. In my opinion that line will be as good if not better than the first line. We don't need Turris to become a number 1 center that scores 80 points every year. We need that line to be a consistent 60-75 points per year. Thats extremely achievable especially with Karlsson, Ceci and Wiercoich on the back end. The second line will outscore the first line most years in my opinion and they will average 65-80 points per year. The 3rd line looks like most teams 2nd lines.

There are tons of reason's to retool next year and have our team come out looking much better from the rebuild. One of the reason's is after everyone's 6 years of RFA is up the cap will also be way up. Not to mention Meylnek will make a killing in those 6 years of RFA because everyone will have an extremely small contract and we will be a very competitive team.

The line of Nichushkin - Turris - Stone will be a great line. Turris loves to shoot and plays great defensively. Nichushkin is going to be an all-star and will make Turris and Stone that much better. Stone will learn how to use his size and end up similar to James Neal. Not as many goals but his overall offensive awareness is through the roof and putting him on that line will make Nichushkin a 35+ goal scorer. Stone has also rounded out his game in Bingo and isn't a defensive liability. His foot speed may not be elite but it is far from what some people make it out to be. Even if we didn't make this trade Stone will be on Spezza's line within the next 2 years unless Silfverberg finds chemistry with Spezza.

 

[guyzeur]

Agreed, but I get frustrated with the "player x may decline, trade him now!" line of thought for an entire different reason. If trading away experienced players when their point production drops is a good idea, then the biggest mistake the Sens have made over the past decade is not giving up Alfie for a 1st and a 2nd when his PPG started to dip. This is total nonsense of course. Players have value beyond their point production, and Spezza is getting set to be the next captain after Alfie retires.

Just think of where we would have been this past year if we decided to dump Alfie, Neil, and Phillips for younger players a few seasons back when their value supposedly was at its peak.

you could have summarized your post by saying you do not want the Edmonton model.

 

[Marty Straka]

I wouldn't trade Spezza to draft Nichushkin... but I sure as hell would love to draft him.. he'd probably be in the running for 1st overall if he wasn't Russian.. the dude is built like an ox and has ridiculous potential.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Neil is the team's soul. He is irreplaceable. He is going to be pencilled into the lineup for the next 3 seasons he is signed for.

62 hits in 10 playoff games. That is BY FAR the most per game in the NHL. Played all 48 games despite being clearly injured much of the later parts of the season. Beats heavyweights, draws penalties, strikes actual fear, or at least a lingering distraction, with his hitting.

How is he replaceable? We dressed freaking Kassian in the playoffs. Neil is 10x better then Kassian at everything. Every single NHL team would LOVE Neil on their team come playoffs.

He is so not replaceable.

Agreed.

While I'm not always keen on how he plays right on the line at times (and has been damned lucky never to have a suspension on his record), he's the kind of guy teams win with. The ripple effect of guys like this on the roster can't be measured on any stat sheet. He makes everyone bigger, more confident, and forces everyone to give an honest effort every game.

Having strong all-around good guys on the bottom six is what separates championship teams from the pretenders.

 

[sens613]

Why is it infuriating? It's basically how most trades that aren't deadline deals go down. Scouts go to games, GMs go to games, they watch players and think they're getting value in return for a) a player who doesn't want to be there, b) a player who they believe is a bad influence or on a decline or is an extra - IE the worst of the crop.

I mean take Anderson and Elliott for example. You really think Colorado was thinking they're getting a **** goalie in return for a **** goalie? Really?

Murray thought he was getting a good goalie in return for an inconsistent one. Colorado thought the change of scenery would help Elliott, he'd be more consistent and be a future goaltender for them and they'd 'win out'. It worked out for us this time, maybe it might not work out for us next time.

Edit: You have way too much faith in GMs, scouts. They're good, better than us but they aren't so good that you put 30 gms/scouts (or even 3-5) in a room and have them all agree on the future of a player who's between 25-32. And to top it off - have them be right about it.

That example of trade has zero to do with the quoted above. Two goalies in their mid to late 20's having a rough year does not have anything to do with trading an aging or injury prpne player who is right about to decline. My point was trade him at 32 RIGHT before he declines, as if their is a way to tell player x is about to decline at a certain age and nobody else knows about it , or has their own medical team to check a player out before a trade is approved if decline is due to injury.

 

[guyzeur]

Look at the second line. In my opinion that line will be as good if not better than the first line. We don't need Turris to become a number 1 center that scores 80 points every year. We need that line to be a consistent 60-75 points per year. Thats extremely achievable especially with Karlsson, Ceci and Wiercoich on the back end. The second line will outscore the first line most years in my opinion and they will average 65-80 points per year. The 3rd line looks like most teams 2nd lines.

There are tons of reason's to retool next year and have our team come out looking much better from the rebuild. One of the reason's is after everyone's 6 years of RFA is up the cap will also be way up. Not to mention Meylnek will make a killing in those 6 years of RFA because everyone will have an extremely small contract and we will be a very competitive team.

The line of Nichushkin - Turris - Stone will be a great line. Turris loves to shoot and plays great defensively. Nichushkin is going to be an all-star and will make Turris and Stone that much better. Stone will learn how to use his size and end up similar to James Neal. Not as many goals but his overall offensive awareness is through the roof and putting him on that line will make Nichushkin a 35+ goal scorer. Stone has also rounded out his game in Bingo and isn't a defensive liability. His foot speed may not be elite but it is far from what some people make it out to be. Even if we didn't make this trade Stone will be on Spezza's line within the next 2 years unless Silfverberg finds chemistry with Spezza.

Most teams 2nd lines are average. You have to compare our 3rd line with the 2nd line of the top 6 teams in the league, then we can talk.

 

[pearcey]

I wouldn't trade Spezza to draft Nichushkin... but I sure as hell would love to draft him.. he'd probably be in the running for 1st overall if he wasn't Russian.. the dude is built like an ox and has ridiculous potential.

You aren't just getting Nichushkin, you are getting Forsberg as well who in my mind will be a number 1 forward in a year or 2. You are getting an elite power forward that are extremely hard to find and you are getting a possible 1st liner guarennteed 2nd liner. A line with Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Forsberg would be ridiculous. All of them are smart players, big, and all three are offensively gifted.

 

[BondraTime]

You aren't just getting Nichushkin, you are getting Forsberg as well who in my mind will be a number 1 forward in a year or 2. You are getting an elite power forward that are extremely hard to find and you are getting a possible 1st liner guarennteed 2nd liner. A line with Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Forsberg would be ridiculous. All of them are smart players, big, and all three are offensively gifted.

Forsberg slipped below 10 in the draft, and then at the deadline was traded for Martin Erat. I don't think the Caps would have traded him for that if they believed he had a chance to a game breaker. When there is smoke, there is fire..

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Forsberg slipped below 10 in the draft, and then at the deadline was traded for Martin Erat. I don't think the Caps would have traded him for that if they believed he had a chance to a game breaker. When there is smoke, there is fire..

That was GMGM trying to save his job

It was a terrible trade when considering the long term implications

 

[McManked]

That was GMGM trying to save his job

It was a terrible trade when considering the long term implications

It is if Forsberg develops.

The hard-on for Forsberg is ludicrous on this board. It's not just that he was traded by McPhee. He ALSO slipped a lot farther in the draft then most people thought he was, so clearly almost a dozen-teams thought that he wasn't the player that he was hyped to be.

That said, they definitely did overpay for Erat.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Id do the trade put id flip the 4th + too Florida for the 2nd


Spezza for 4th Forsberg

Florida 2nd overall for 4th and 17th

End up getting one of Mackinnion Jones or Drouin

 

[BondraTime]

That was GMGM trying to save his job

It was a terrible trade when considering the long term implications

Certainly a terrible trade

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It is if Forsberg develops.

The hard-on for Forsberg is ludicrous on this board. It's not just that he was traded by McPhee. He ALSO slipped a lot farther in the draft then most people thought he was, so clearly almost a dozen-teams thought that he wasn't the player that he was hyped to be.

That said, they definitely did overpay for Erat.

They gave up a good prospect (I don't think he's a sure bet but he's a good prospect ) to make the playoffs this year

It's true that I haven't bothered to check up on the Washington prospect pool but something tells me it isn't all that impressive

To give up one of your best prospects (that you acquired by trading a goalie you didn't need) for an aging winger is desperation IMO

 

[McManked]

They gave up a good prospect (I don't think he's a sure bet but he's a good prospect ) to make the playoffs this year

It's true that I haven't bothered to check up on the Washington prospect pool but something tells me it isn't all that impressive

To give up one of your best prospects (that you acquired by trading a goalie you didn't need) for an aging winger is desperation IMO

Agreed.

You're spot on with the "McPhee trying to save his ass" thought.

 

[YNWA14]

Id do the trade put id flip the 4th + too Florida for the 2nd

Spezza for 4th Forsberg

Florida 2nd overall for 4th and 17th

End up getting one of Mackinnion Jones or Drouin

If that goes through we stay and take Barkov, who could easily be the best player in this draft.

Barkov + Forsberg for Spezza is still underpayment though. Spezza isn't going anywhere.

 

[HSF]

well people were saying that a european club who wanted Briere state that Briere has already chosen a team in the eastern conference to play on or something

 

[R2010]

The mere mention of trading Spezza is just tiresome...

As the TSN article stated earlier today:
"Since 2005-2006, Jason Spezza (2nd overall pick) has scored 545 points in 500 games, his 1.09 points per game ranking fifth, behind Sidney Crosby (1st overall pick), Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall pick), Alex Ovechkin (1st overall pick) and Joe Thornton (1st overall pick)."

So every year when we hear this discussion of trading Spezza for a top 5 pick it makes me wonder do people even realize how many top 5 picks in the last 10 years have turned into something even close to Spezza?

10 out of 50 maybe? at best at quarter of them? Its surprising there are even some people out there willing to flip a coin for a chance at replacing what we already have?

 

[HSF]

According to Swiss newspapers, SC Bern could offer Danny Briere a 3-years/2M contract which he could accept since taxes are lower in Switzerland so it'll be like a 4M NHL contract

Bern's GM said that Briere won't come because he has already agreed to sign with a team in the east.. Not sure about the reliability of the second info though

The Info above is from a swiss poster

 

[One M0RE YEAR]

anyone have interest in dustin penner? I know BM loves the guy..

 

[HSF]

anyone have interest in dustin penner? I know BM loves the guy..

he doesnt have the cardio to play top line mins from what i understand

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

The mere mention of trading Spezza is just tiresome...

As the TSN article stated earlier today:
"Since 2005-2006, Jason Spezza (2nd overall pick) has scored 545 points in 500 games, his 1.09 points per game ranking fifth, behind Sidney Crosby (1st overall pick), Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall pick), Alex Ovechkin (1st overall pick) and Joe Thornton (1st overall pick)."

So every year when we hear this discussion of trading Spezza for a top 5 pick it makes me wonder do people even realize how many top 5 picks in the last 10 years have turned into something even close to Spezza?

10 out of 50 maybe? at best at quarter of them? Its surprising there are even some people out there willing to flip a coin for a chance at replacing what we already have?

Totally agree, not to mention that this kind of a trade would slow down our development by like 2-5 years.

Anyone who thinks we should trade Spezza is **** and ****** with a double order of *******.