Proposal: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, and Potential Buyouts | Part II

[Carrie Underwood]

Am I the only one that wants Briere?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Yes.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

Am I the only one that wants Briere?

i want him 2

 

[Sun God Nika]

Am I the only one that wants Briere?

I want him, but i dont think well get him..

 

[Laphroaig]

I want Briere in 2005.

 

[Vaclav Varada]

Apparently up to 15 teams are interested in Briere.

 

[WhiteLight*]

This line of thinking is infuriating. If you know he is declining so you trade him to maximize his value in x amount of years before he declines , well then I am pretty sure every GM scout agm ect.. also knows he is about to decline. Players value do not fluctuate that frequently.

I would love to be able to fool every gm and win every trade but it is not even close to realistic.

it's not about ''fooling'' GMs.

In the scenario I described in that post you quoted, it described Monahan being ready to be a scoring centre when Spezza is traded. In that situation, the Sens would have an expendable scoring centre. Therefore, one could be traded. It's better to trade the older about to decline Spezza than the young in their prime or about to be Monahan, Turris or Zib. Simply to maximize value.

The idea is to trade Spezza when he still has value, when is still producing decently... not when he is a 40 point 38 year old about to retire. Because then he has no value.

Agreed, but I get frustrated with the "player x may decline, trade him now!" line of thought for an entire different reason. If trading away experienced players when their point production drops is a good idea, then the biggest mistake the Sens have made over the past decade is not giving up Alfie for a 1st and a 2nd when his PPG started to dip. This is total nonsense of course. Players have value beyond their point production, and Spezza is getting set to be the next captain after Alfie retires.

Just think of where we would have been this past year if we decided to dump Alfie, Neil, and Phillips for younger players a few seasons back when their value supposedly was at its peak.

Alfie > Spezza

The team could do without Neil or Phillips. They're ok NHL caliber players, but they're replaceable.

 

[Knave]

This line of thinking is infuriating. If you know he is declining so you trade him to maximize his value in x amount of years before he declines , well then I am pretty sure every GM scout agm ect.. also knows he is about to decline. Players value do not fluctuate that frequently.

I would love to be able to fool every gm and win every trade but it is not even close to realistic.

Why is it infuriating? It's basically how most trades that aren't deadline deals go down. Scouts go to games, GMs go to games, they watch players and think they're getting value in return for a) a player who doesn't want to be there, b) a player who they believe is a bad influence or on a decline or is an extra - IE the worst of the crop.

I mean take Anderson and Elliott for example. You really think Colorado was thinking they're getting a **** goalie in return for a **** goalie? Really?

Murray thought he was getting a good goalie in return for an inconsistent one. Colorado thought the change of scenery would help Elliott, he'd be more consistent and be a future goaltender for them and they'd 'win out'. It worked out for us this time, maybe it might not work out for us next time.

Edit: You have way too much faith in GMs, scouts. They're good, better than us but they aren't so good that you put 30 gms/scouts (or even 3-5) in a room and have them all agree on the future of a player who's between 25-32. And to top it off - have them be right about it.

 

[Sensinitis]

Someone brought up Neil being replaceable. His leadership is instrumental for the team's success and development of the youth, but he's basically taking up a spot IMO. I love Neiler, one of my favorite Sens and I know what he brings. That is, fear in the opponent's eye when they see him forechecking, forcing the opposition to make boneheaded plays, delivering crushing hits, shifting momentum, etc. But going forward, if we really want to be a four line team, a better player hockey player should be in his spot.

It's something that will probably happen as the team ages and isn't in the developmental stage anymore. For now, Neil is relatively important.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I honestly think additions of Briere+Top 3 forward solidifies us on forward for a cup run.

Add a top 3-4 defender and we'd be contenders.

Only thing is, there is only so much room that two of Zibanejad/Pageau/Condra/Greening/Conacher would be allowed roster spots but obviously 2 of those could be in a package for that top 3 forward.

However, Alfredsson retiring next year do we possibly wanna risk dealing a guy like Conacher/Zibanejad? Even though we getting top 3 forward back. But we also have Puempel/Stone/Prince/Noesen coming up.

It's very interesting to see what management will do.

 

[YNWA14]

A healthy Briere will look good in Ottawa. Will be nice to see if we can grab another top 6 forward to go with him.

 

[HSF]

if Briere comes then he will probably be out only pickup unless Alfie is done.

i just dont like the age of briere

 

[Benjamin]

Am I the only one that wants Briere?

yes.

 

[StefanW]

I honestly think additions of Briere+Top 3 forward solidifies us on forward for a cup run.

Add a top 3-4 defender and we'd be contenders.

Only thing is, there is only so much room that two of Zibanejad/Pageau/Condra/Greening/Conacher would be allowed roster spots but obviously 2 of those could be in a package for that top 3 forward.

However, Alfredsson retiring next year do we possibly wanna risk dealing a guy like Conacher/Zibanejad? Even though we getting top 3 forward back. But we also have Puempel/Stone/Prince/Noesen coming up.

It's very interesting to see what management will do.

I agree with all of this. Along with it being interesting to see what management will do, I think it will be really interesting to see how the young guns will progress next season. We can add a top 4 D and a top3 winger and be much better for it, but if Zibby, Cowen, and Silf (or whichever of them are left) fall off and have a sophomore slump then we will be no closer to being contenders. I know Cowen will technically be in year 3, but he missed almost all of last year so I am still considering it a sophomore seson for him.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I agree with all of this. Along with it being interesting to see what management will do, I think it will be really interesting to see how the young guns will progress next season. We can add a top 4 D and a top3 winger and be much better for it, but if Zibby, Cowen, and Silf (or whichever of them are left) fall off and have a sophomore slump then we will be no closer to being contenders. I know Cowen will technically be in year 3, but he missed almost all of last year so I am still considering it a sophomore seson for him.

I think we as fans underestimate the options that management has.

We have assets to move up in the draft, get a top line forward, sign a solid free agent, acquire a top 4 defender.

Remember that all it took was Foligno for a guy who was our MVP on D last year in Methot.

 

[BonkTastic]

Am I the only one that wants Briere?

I think he'd fit in well here and be a positive influence for a lot of guys on our team, but I'm not exactly going to lose any sleep if he signs somewhere else, either.

I'm kind of towing the line between being "Pro-Briere" and sort of indifferent about him as a Senator. I'm definitely not in the Anti-Briere camp, though.

 

[sensageddon]

he scored 34 goals 2 years ago and he is from the area. I used to hate him when he played for Buffalo. He could be a valuable asset to the team.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Does Briere make us a better hockey team? Yes.

Therefore you get him, unless Murray has a choice between him and Filppula or of the like then it gets interesting.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

If Briere became a Senator tomorrow, I wouldn't care. If he got a bad contract, it would make up upset that we signed him. If he came with a good contract....I'd still be indifferent.

 

[pearcey]

Ottawa - Nashville

The trade I'm suggesting only happens "IF" Alferdsson retires and ill explain why after and just to let you know I'm not 100% on the value.

To Ottawa

1st round pick in 2013(4th overall)(ONLY if Nichushkin is still there)
Flip Forsberg

To Nashville
Jason Spezza
(mid level prospect)Stephan Da Costa?

So if Alferdsson retires and BM can't pull in that 1st line winger I think we finish this rebuild properly. Most rebuilds you acquire top end talent in the draft but finishing in the bottom 5 of the league at least twice. We have only had these first round picks 2012 - 15th overall, 2011 - 6th, 21st and 23 overall, 2010 - 0 1st round picks, 2009 - 9th overall and 2008 - 15th overall. Not saying we haven't had enough 1st round pick but we haven't had enough "high end" picks where we draft franchise type players.

In just 1 trade we improve our future tremendously. Sure we may not make the playoffs next year but after that we have a team that could be the next Detroit type franchise. Im going to go ahead and list the lines for next year if we did this trade and then the lines of the future.

Michalek - Turris - Nichushkin
Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Forsberg
Conacher - Pageau - Stone
Greening - Smith - Neil

Future

Nichushkin - Turris - Stone
Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Forsberg
Conacher - Pageau - Noeson
Greening - Smith - ??

Now I want to further explain this trade and the reasoning behind it. If Alferdsson reitres our forward lines would look like this next year.

Michalek - Spezza - Silfverberg
Conacher - Turris - Stone
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Condra
Greening - Smith - Neil

Now those lines aren't going to win us the cup and they might not even make the playoffs. That not to mention that Michalek continues to have knee problems and has went to another doctor in another country. He will never be the same player and we would be lucky to have him for 50-60 games playing at around 80-90%. Michalek could easily retire within the next 3-5 years if these problems persist which they are most likely to do.

I personally don't think Spezza has any health concerns but I could easily see his play decreasing when he is 33-35 instead of playing well into his late 30's. These 2 back surgery's and now a knee surgery will have an effect long term and we just don't know how long it will be before we start to see these effects.

I know nobody wants to trade away Spezza as he has been my favorite player right next to Alfie. I just bought a jersey of his and I would probably be pretty anger for the next year if this trade did happen but in the long run I think this could easily benefit us much more than Nashville.

The way I look at our current team is that we are set up to win in about 2-3 years. We can't rely on young players like Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Conacher, Cowen and Wiercoich to be impact players in the Stanely Cup playoffs because it really doesn't work out to well. They are to inconsistent when they are so young and inexperienced. They need time to improve and so do players like Puempel, Noeson, Ceci, Stone and other prospects. This was the point of the rebuild so we would have new young player coming up threw the ranks and helping this team achieve big things but if we try to rush it things could end up back firing on us. Imagine trading players like Puempel and Noeson/Stone to make our team better now and then Michalek retiring and Spezza's play decreasing. We could end up back in a rebuild in another 7 years. I say we do it right and fill the cupboards with ELITE prospects and not 2nd line prospects.

Our teams first 3 lines in 5 years would all be in the age range of 23-28. Everyone would be approaching there prime at the same time and add 3 years to that and every single player is in there prime at the same time. Right now we have some players in there prime, some are to young and some are ending there careers.

Look past the names and look at our future and the current state of our team if Alferdsson was to retire and we couldn't replace him. Either way I expect someone to call me crazy.....actually i expect everyone to call me crazy but I think we could really benefit from this trade. Also after that trade we would still have TONS of other players I never included like - Hoffman, Puempel, Anderson after the 13/14 season we could trade him, our 17th overall pick in 2013, 2014, 2015 and so on. We will still have tons of assets to make a deal if needed to improve our team after this trade.

 

[Spinkis]

There is no way this is going to happen but I would not mind it, we would have to add though.

 

[BonkTastic]

This might be the ultimate litmus test on how the Sens see Spezza in light of his back surgery.

If they are legit worried about his back going forward, and it continuing to be an issue that would cause him to miss time, I could see them pulling the trigger on this deal.

 

[Sens Rule]

Someone brought up Neil being replaceable. His leadership is instrumental for the team's success and development of the youth, but he's basically taking up a spot IMO. I love Neiler, one of my favorite Sens and I know what he brings. That is, fear in the opponent's eye when they see him forechecking, forcing the opposition to make boneheaded plays, delivering crushing hits, shifting momentum, etc. But going forward, if we really want to be a four line team, a better player hockey player should be in his spot.

It's something that will probably happen as the team ages and isn't in the developmental stage anymore. For now, Neil is relatively important.

Neil is the team's soul. He is irreplaceable. He is going to be pencilled into the lineup for the next 3 seasons he is signed for.

62 hits in 10 playoff games. That is BY FAR the most per game in the NHL. Played all 48 games despite being clearly injured much of the later parts of the season. Beats heavyweights, draws penalties, strikes actual fear, or at least a lingering distraction, with his hitting.

How is he replaceable? We dressed freaking Kassian in the playoffs. Neil is 10x better then Kassian at everything. Every single NHL team would LOVE Neil on their team come playoffs.

He is so not replaceable.

 

[TheOriginalSilf*]

Who needs a #1 center on a team trying to compete anyways? This team just needs more picks and prospects.

But honestly, you don't trade players like Jason Spezza. Spezza is the player that teams dream to take 1st overall in most NHL drafts. We're talking about one of the best players at his position in the NHL, playing at the most sought after position there is. If we had a 30+ year old Spezza in 2008? Maybe. But this team just finished making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs while continuing the re-build plan. It's almost over. Why the hell do we take 5 steps back with a trade like this? Sure, he'll be a bit older than the rest of the time while they hit their prime. Using that same logic, should we have dealt Alfie when he was 30+ before our Finals run because he was older than the core of the team? No.

You don't need to look at the names to tell you this is a bad trade for us due to where this team is right now. #1 center (+) for two valuable prospects. This severely impacts how the team competes for the next few seasons and will then see all of our young stars hitting UFA status at the exact same time, all looking to get paid.

This is the time where we make moves to improve our play now. Give up assets that are potentially valuable in the future for those that can produce now. You know, rather than making us mediocre now and having a chance at being good in 4-5 years (where we still have a huge hole at 1st line center).

Seriously, who would be our (permanent) 1st line center? Turris?

EDIT: Looking at that future line-up, we would need EVERYTHING to pan out just peachy. Stone becomes the 1st line winger. Nich is a sure fire 1st line winger. Turris evolves past his 2nd line duties. I'd say the chances of that 1st line being a Stanley Cup winning 1st line are pretty damn slim unless Stone and Turris step their games up tremendously. Jesus.

 

[BonkTastic]

Neil is the team's soul. He is irreplaceable. He is going to be pencilled into the lineup for the next 3 seasons he is signed for.

62 hits in 10 playoff games. That is BY FAR the most per game in the NHL. Played all 48 games despite being clearly injured much of the later parts of the season. Beats heavyweights, draws penalties, strikes actual fear, or at least a lingering distraction, with his hitting.

How is he replaceable? We dressed freaking Kassian in the playoffs. Neil is 10x better then Kassian at everything. Every single NHL team would LOVE Neil on their team come playoffs.

He is so not replaceable.

This entire post is why I'd be 100% behind a Clutterbuck trade & contract extension. I'd overpay for Clutterbuck. I''d mess myself for Clutterbuck. Bring him in, have Neiler's love of the community & organization rub off on Clutterbuck for a year or two, and then bam: when Neil retires, we have a succession plan in place with Clutterbuck for the next 6-8 years.