Speculation: 2013 Offseason Thread Part V: Streit signs with PHI (4 years, $5.25M per)

[NYR Viper]

I totally disagree. I think Boyle was, again, one of the players who I think voiced displeasure with Torts. And I think Alain Vigneault would love Boyle. Would start him in the defensive zone 90% of the time.

I just feel AV will want t put his stamp on this team. I'm sure he will watch a lot of tape and see who fits the style he wants to play and who doesn't.

 

[TheRightWay]

feel free to elaborate, as my detail suggests you are wrong on both counts.

Well for starters, your defensive pairings consist of one (maybe two) guys with NHL experience. I'm not going to waste my time dissecting the rest of this because, at this point, you're basically the HFBoards equivalent of those guys who stand on street corners in NYC insisting that the end is near.

 

[Raspewtin]

With every media outlet talking about Richards and Torts relationship being strained, and the Rangers cap situation (14M free w/ Richards signed as of now), and AV's past experience coaching Pyatt and Clowe, I get the feeling that neither Step nor McD will be rocking a new 5M cap hit.

If Hags/Step/McD are signed for within 10M, the Rangers have plenty of space and options. My guess is that some of the UFAs get priced out as it happens every year, but Rangers go the trade route to fill in the role positions.

Meaning trades of Powe/Pyatt/Asham (3.5M) for cheaper contracts.

One proposal I've got is this:

Asham
'14 5th

for

Ryan White
'13 6th

Rangers get another pick this year, and get younger, while MTL trades a tweener in need of a scenery change. MTL needs more vets, and replaces White's toughness w a player in Asham that is familiar with MTL.

Pyatt is a mystery as AV could want him back, but AV plays a game of matchups and I do not foresee Pyatt being a part of that game as he does not play effective minutes out side of a bottom six even strength role.

I'd move him for futures or to a team in need of size.

Powe too can be moved, but he kills penalties, and does it well. I think he ends up as the one staying and forming a 4th line that can give some solid minutes.

The Rangers have a lot of forwards making under 2M, and I definitely think there will be some tweaking there, as opposed to the strategy of buying out and replacing higher cost players with both money and assets.

Ryan White is a ****ing nutcase who takes at least 1 stupid penalty a game. No interest.

 

[Raspewtin]

The more I think about it, the more I think Boyle will be traded. He was a Torts favorite a d he has considerable value among most NHL GM's with his size, defensive play, physicality, face off prowess and ability to play all over the lineup.

With AV coming in, I would think Lapierre will be on the Rangers radar.

I hope they trade for someone like McLeod. Someone who can drop the gloves and play.

It sounds like Clowe will be back. I'm totally fine with that but his contract can't be absurd.

jesus god please no Lappy is a sack of garbage, I'd be ashamed if he was on this team over Boyle, he's can be AV's new Manny Malhotra

 

[bernmeister]

Good. We'll compete in 5 years then. Or probably never. Until then we'll watch this whole place go up in flames.

And how the **** do you keep putting Marincin and Gernat that highly? Gernat, while having all sorts of potential could easily bust (he has close to 0 hockey IQ; really, if people here are frustrated with MDZ's outlet passes, they haven't seen this guy) and Marincin isn't the guy I'd like to anchor our 1st d pairing (however, I'll give you that, I think he can be a damn useful 2nd pairing defensive defenseman). I get to watch Slovakian hockey an awful lot, but sorry, I just can't see your point here.

Thank you for the critique, which to some extent is warranted and otherwise is not.

I have in subsequent post to the one you are quoting provided more review of the lines. Don't see how we really have too much need for concern there. Yes, it is POSSIBLE that McK AND Fast AND Lindberg COULD bust, but that is NOT likely, especially as to all of them. It is possible Brassard regresses in a better system for his passing, that Kreider does not progress, let alone explode, under Frenchie, or that Stallberg, a great fit on such a line, just turns invisible; ALL of that is POSSIBLE, but IS NOT LIKELY.

The critique as to LD is fair. Please confess to the serious upgrade at RD.

On LD, as I noted subsequently, it was an indulgence to do a bottom pair of Siemens-McIlrath, a real bruise brothers combo ideal for certain shifts/circumstances.

Marancin + Gernat are both tall, gifted skaters, fast. Marancin you admit (thanks for your honesty) has atm legit 2nd pair upside. Gernat can be tried for min minutes at 3rd pair. We can bump Siemens to first.

Again, this is who we would have who is available now.
We certainly can add, and not unimportant, because of my scenario, we have full cap, etc flexibility to do so.

I believe that with the exception of LD, the amount of growing pains is minimal, and would not otherwise be more in some cases (Kreider) than if my scenario were not enacted.

I believe that if you want the other benefits, which are substantial and not to be ignored, you take the hit at LD, understanding this is the best you can do until you add.

This IS an example of what I have phrased as 'taking 2 steps back to go 5 steps ahead'.

Sure Siemens + Marancin + Gernat do not immediately compare favorably with M.Staal + MDZ + Moore and may never = their excellence; there is more potential on both sides, so we don't know. But we have real improvement in so many other areas. We should bank that improvement and nurture while adding to development of these RDs.

Is it INCONCEIVABLE that the Kings, with Martinez, who are looking to get more cap friendly, might do not a sweetheart deal, but something mutually comfortable with futures? That's one established LD.

Likewise, Chicago. we have talked about Dylan Olsen, a lefty who plays righty in their system, for Boyle. Now, with increased flexibility and having such an embarrassment of riches they may have to let both Bickell and Strallman walk, I believe they are looking to move D. I think they are looking more like Seabrook, which does not fit this equation unless it is a three way (with Rangers + another team sending futures/assets to Hawks, Seabrook to the other team, and an acceptable LD to us).

Still, my point is, look at my scenario as one comprehensive setting of pictures (one deal, another trade) trying to proximate motion in the final result (a complete team). Then just say, ok, this is as far as this scenario takes us for now, but even if it is not finalized, even if it is a couple of moves still needed to bolster LD, it IS worth doing to get us that far.

 

[iamitter]

I just feel AV will want t put his stamp on this team. I'm sure he will watch a lot of tape and see who fits the style he wants to play and who doesn't.

While I agree with that, I don't see how Boyle isn't an AV kind of guy. He's picture perfect for his zone matching style. Reliable defensively, great in the dot, is used to heavy defensive zone draws.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

While I agree with that, I don't see how Boyle isn't an AV kind of guy. He's picture perfect for his zone matching style. Reliable defensively, great in the dot, is used to heavy defensive zone draws.

I don't understand how people fail to see this. Boyle will likely get used in a Malhotra-like role, and I'm fine with that, it's the role Boyle should be playing.

 

[bernmeister]

Well for starters, your defensive pairings consist of one (maybe two) guys with NHL experience. I'm not going to waste my time dissecting the rest of this because, at this point, you're basically the HFBoards equivalent of those guys who stand on street corners in NYC insisting that the end is near.

I welcome your comments as well. However, I give as good as I get, and I will have to call you out on stuff.

Well for starters, your defensive pairings consist of one (maybe two) guys with NHL experience.

One, you are properly hitting on the weak link, the LD particularly w/lack of experience.

What you are not doing, is admitting that the rest of the team is improved, the cap, etc. are improved. I insist that since you want to be dismissive of the entire plan, you admit the balance of the roster is vastly improved.

Secondly, experience is important, but it is not everything.
We need a serious TALENT upgrade.
This scenario makes our RD arguably from average to first.
The LD remains more suspect, but it does have talent upgrades in part. We would be thin there temporarily, but it is reasonable to expect we eventually have 2 starters, possibly 3 depending upon Gernat, who has tools at least but is a crapshoot.

Again, if we get all the other improvements, AND esp. since we could manufacture some further help for LD, sort of part 2, the follow through, and would be in a cap friendly situation to totally do that, I believe there is objective basis to suggest we should back my plan.

----------

As to

at this point, you're basically the HFBoards equivalent of those guys who stand on street corners in NYC insisting that the end is near.

The fact is, my record is more right than wrong.
Consider this sampling:
Kreider - as to how good he will be/delayed by Torts, but looks like I will be proven right.
Richards - as to he HAD to be moved because of cap, regardless of how well he plays/I was first to push this, and I was CLEARLY right.
Miller - that while he could use more experience and development, he WAS good enough to physically cut it and play in NHL last season/I was the only one, practically to nail that one.

There are mistakes, too, but not as drastic as you imply.

Since you have made comments as to my credibility it is required and necessary that I thoroughly rebuff you.

The club can make its own deals and each one must be judged on its results. Or it can adopt my plan, which, like everything else is not a sure thing, but has a very good percentage of succeeding. We shall see.

We should have moved Girardi for top dollar before.
If we can still get top dollar for all our LD to get all these other benefits and decent replacements at LD we should do it.

 

[Guyute]

rumor is JR believes russians are better when kept apart. semin kept away from ovechkin on the canes, for example. therefore, he is hesitant to take nichushkin at 5 and is willing to move the pick to improve the team right away.

staal for 5th+?

staal is a great player. he was our best d-man before getting hit in the face with the puck. who knows how his eye will heal. team has played alright without him for the last two years.

keep del z. and see if he can be more consistent under vigneault. McD, Del Z., Moore on the left side going forward. Hope Nichushkin or Barkov is available at the #5 spot. maybe add a decent prospect to get faulk back in the deal with the 5th pick to strengthen our depth on the right side.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I don't understand how people fail to see this. Boyle will likely get used in a Malhotra-like role, and I'm fine with that, it's the role Boyle should be playing.

I'd like to see this from the AV coached Rangers:

Offence:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash

2-way line, gets most minutes, slightly more ofensive starts than defensive.

Kreider-Brassard-Zuccarello

Offensive line, plays less minutes than the 1st line but gets a lot of offensive zone starts.

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan

Shutdown line, gets decent minutes but is almost exclusively used in a defensive capacity.

MacArthur(UFA)-Lindberg/Miller-Dorsett

Utility/energy line, slightly defensively biased, 8-10 ES minutes/game. "4th line", but neither a liability nor an offensive black hole.

If Kreider struggles, switch him and MacArthur.

Defence:

Staal-Girardi

Shutdown pairing, zone starts heavily defensively biased.

McDonagh-Strålman

2-way pairing, good defensively and offensively. Can handle any type of situation.

Moore-Del Zotto

3rd pairing, sheltered minutes. Zone starts heavily biased to the offensive zone.

 

[Clowes Line]

whats the contract?

He's a free agent. I'd sign him to a two year deal at about 2-2.5 million a year

 

[McSauer]

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan

Shutdown line, gets decent minutes but is almost exclusively used in a defensive capacity.

We can't--repeat CAN'T--have Boyle and Pyatt getting third line minutes; I thought Torts was gone??

Boyle can be a great FOURTH liner, any above that is asking for disaster...make a Powe/Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett fourth line, all PK (if Powe is in)/Role/Energy players...

 

[iamitter]

We can't--repeat CAN'T--have Boyle and Pyatt getting third line minutes; I thought Torts was gone??

Boyle can be a great FOURTH liner, any above that is asking for disaster...make a Powe/Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett fourth line, all PK (if Powe is in)/Role/Energy players...

If he is used in primarily defensive (80+% zone draws) situations, I have no problem with him getting 10-11 ES minutes. That line would be a beast on the boards and would be one of the best at getting the puck into the offensive zone. It wouldn't be too great at scoring, but it would be decent and getting the puck from the defensive to the offensive zone is also important.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Pyatt nor Boyle should be on the 3rd line unless an injury occurs that was our problem with depth last year

 

[GAGLine]

The more I think about it, the more I think Boyle will be traded. He was a Torts favorite a d he has considerable value among most NHL GM's with his size, defensive play, physicality, face off prowess and ability to play all over the lineup.

Most NHL GMs, but not ours, huh? Do we have an abundance of those types of players?

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

so if Richards isn't bought out, whats the best way to improve the team with limited cap space after signing our RFAs or do they not get as much this time as we think?

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Zucc-Brass-Callahan
Kreider-Richards-XX
Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett.

or do we move Del Zotto in a deal for another winger? etc. what would you guys do IF Richards isn't bought out.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

rumor is JR believes russians are better when kept apart. semin kept away from ovechkin on the canes, for example. therefore, he is hesitant to take nichushkin at 5 and is willing to move the pick to improve the team right away.

staal for 5th+?

staal is a great player. he was our best d-man before getting hit in the face with the puck. who knows how his eye will heal. team has played alright without him for the last two years.

keep del z. and see if he can be more consistent under vigneault. McD, Del Z., Moore on the left side going forward. Hope Nichushkin or Barkov is available at the #5 spot. maybe add a decent prospect to get faulk back in the deal with the 5th pick to strengthen our depth on the right side.

I don't think there is anyway we can get the 5th AND Faulk for Staal + unless its a pretty significant +

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

when clowe was here he played great. the guy can still put up 40-50 points along with bringing snarl to this team which we desperrately need. in his 4 seasons before this one he had 22 goals, 19 goals, 24 goals and 17 goals. so clowe can score around 20 goals. his point totals have been 52, 57, 62 and 45. clowe is not garbage.

How do you know he can still put up 40 points? He sure as heck didn't look like it this year. His play deteriorated and he sustained three concussions in a half season.

We should sacrifice more draft picks and over pay to keep this guy? No thanks.

 

[Kershaw]

Clowe is garbage. He can score? He scored three goals in 2013. And suffered three concussions. He suffered as many concussions in 2013 as goals he scored.

The guy is slow, declining, and sustained three head injuries in a half season. And to top it all off he will be overpaid.

Agreed. He's been brutal without Couture or Pavelski masking up his deficiencies as a player.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

so, here is my plan.. Keep Richards for one more year since there are no good options at c and he will be an adequate (albeit overpaid) 3c. trade MDZ for a top line LW, sign a cheap RHD for the 3rd pair.

XX-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Brassard-Callahan (thats a great puck possession line)
Kreider-Richards-Zucc (offensive 3rd line)
Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett

Mcdonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-XX
Eminger

 

[Doctyl]

How do you know he can still put up 40 points? He sure as heck didn't look like it this year. His play deteriorated and he sustained three concussions in a half season.

We should sacrifice more draft picks and over pay to keep this guy? No thanks.

in clowe's time as a ranger he played at a 54 point pace.

 

[Josh3217]

I want to see Lindberg play really badly..

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

in clowe's time as a ranger he played at a 54 point pace.

That means nothing in a tiny sample size with now 3 more head injuries.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Clowe isn't "garbage"...don't know where you people come up with this crap. Bickel is garbage. Clowe? Solid top-9 player.

I don't want him back, but the needless bashing is ridiculous. You'd think he killed one of your puppies or something. Guy came here and had some injuries. Clearly he's a POS and terrible hockey player, we should condemn him for it!

 

[Kershaw]

Clowe isn't "garbage"...don't know where you people come up with this crap. Bickel is garbage. Clowe? Solid top-9 player.

I don't want him back, but the needless bashing is ridiculous. You'd think he killed one of your puppies or something. Guy came here and had some injuries. Clearly he's a POS and terrible hockey player, we should condemn him for it!

Always being injured is just as bad as under-performing, which in the case of Ryane Clowe, he's been doing both this past season. That led to his trade. 3 concussions in a shortened season? Yikes.