Speculation: 2013 Offseason Thread Part III: Free Agents Suck

[Thirty One]

40 games is a small sample size?

It's not tiny, but yes.

What about the year prior? Also too small?

I would consider the prior season to be a successful one for him. One of the biggest offensive outputs in recent history for a player with his zone starts.

 

[NYR Viper]

not on board with trading Boyle. I believe he'll have a rebound season and he's a great PKer and faceoff man, and with a Boyd Gordon signing we'll have a better faceoff team and a more rounded PK. He's a great locker room guy too. Just don't see why we should trade him.

I don't think a team could play both Gordon and Boyle and be competitive.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's not tiny, but yes.


I would consider the prior season to be a successful one for him. One of the biggest offensive outputs in recent history for a player with his zone starts.

With how much ice time?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This is part of the problem though. People take small sample sizes and make rash decisions. Boyle was bad most of the season. He was good in the playoffs. MDZ was good most of the season, not very good in the playoffs.

Result? Trade MDZ, keep Boyle. Why?

Because it generally makes more sense to keep the guys who play better as the games get bigger.

 

[Ola]

I think a guy like Del Zotto would have lot more value than some think.

He should have. If we can't get value for him, we shouldn't move him.

I would say that 99% of the critisisim of MDZ is pure BS. I've had MDZ in some trade suggestions, but they have nothing to do with MDZ's value.

We have a logjam at LD, but that's all it is.

 

[Guyute]

boyle showed up out of shape this year. he admitted it in his exit interview. he will be much better and more consistent next year.

we have too many LD's. you have to see what you can get for Del Z given he is due for a raise soon. he's inconsistent but still very young for a d-man. he was our best defenseman at times during the regular season. he was very steady in the d-zone after staal suffered the eye injury. teams/scouts noticed that. it's just a matter of getting him to play at that level consistently, especially in the playoffs. Del Z should have good value in the trade market.

if you are concerned about our depth on the back end with staal's injury, you can bring in a stop gap FA or maybe look to see if the dman market opens up with amnesty buyouts.

 

[Thirty One]

With how much ice time?

Player|Season|GP|ESP|OffZoneStart%|ESTOI
Raffi Torres|2010-11|80|25|29.6|925:59
Brian Boyle|2011-12|82|24|28.8|1017:15
Manny Malhotra|2010-11|72|22|25.0|911:06
Stephane Veilleux|2008-09|81|21|29.0|1076:52
Jim Slater|2011-12|78|20|28.5|969:46

Doesn't stand out to me.

 

[Thirty One]

Obviously, the idea of what is a small sample and what isn't is very grey, but if 38 games is enough to draw a conclusion on what he is going forward, what do his most recent 28 playoff games suggest?

 

[NYR Viper]

Because it generally makes more sense to keep the guys who play better as the games get bigger.

Are you a fan of Sean Bergenheim then?

Player|Season|GP|ESP|OffZoneStart%|ESTOI
Raffi Torres|2010-11|80|25|29.6|925:59
Brian Boyle|2011-12|82|24|28.8|1017:15
Manny Malhotra|2010-11|72|22|25.0|911:06
Stephane Veilleux|2008-09|81|21|29.0|1076:52
Jim Slater|2011-12|78|20|28.5|969:46

Doesn't stand out to me.

I wouldn't want any of those players as a 3rd line center. That's 13+ minutes a game to get 24 points.

Obviously, the idea of what is a small sample and what isn't is very grey, but if 38 games is enough to draw a conclusion on what he is going forward, what do his most recent 28 playoff games suggest?

That his play is more suited to the playoffs?

 

[Thirty One]

I wouldn't want any of those players as a 3rd line center. That's 13+ minutes a game to get 24 points.

While starting an inordinate amount of their shifts in the defensive zone and playing against their opponents' top players.

That his play is more suited to the playoffs?

Given that this is a team with playoff aspirations, I would venture to say keeping him is the play, then.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Obviously, the idea of what is a small sample and what isn't is very grey, but if 38 games is enough to draw a conclusion on what he is going forward, what do his most recent 28 playoff games suggest?

It's not just 38 games, he's been on the team for years and while he has had better years his play is generally the same and when he is on he is very effective but rather inconsistent. Do like his playoff game though, which is why I'd like to keep him around, but his only 3rd line minutes should come due to injury and he should play on the wing. Let him play 4c at all other times.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's not just 38 games, he's been on the team for years and while he has had better years his play is generally the same and when he is on he is very effective but rather inconsistent. Do like his playoff game though, which is why I'd like to keep him around, but his only 3rd line minutes should come due to injury and he should play on the wing. Let him play 4c at all other times.

I think everyone on this board would enjoy seeing Brian Boyle on the 4th line most nights.

All thats standing in the way of this dream are better players.

 

[NYROrtsFan]

I think it's pretty obvious that you keep Boyle. It's a must to keep the guys who play well in big games. We clearly have some guys who don't play well in the playoffs, so guys like Brassard and Boyle are gold.

 

[McSauer]

I am far from Boyle's biggest fan, but if he is used in that 4th line spot ONLY, and in PK/FO spots, he can be very effective. Torts was just in love with him (even with benching him those few games this year) and usually gave him 2nd line minutes, which was just awful...

I think a 4th line of Powe-Boyle-Dorsett could be very useful as an energy line and all 3 can PK (Dorsett did in Columbus)...

 

[Thirty One]

I think everyone on this board would enjoy seeing Brian Boyle on the 4th line most nights.

All thats standing in the way of this dream are better players.

Yeah, Stepan would be the #1 center on a lot of teams, and he would slot in on the second line on many teams. Same with Brassard (2nd/3rd) and Boyle (3rd/4th).

It looks like all three of those players are going to be slotting in at the upper end of their range.

 

[cacchioli22]

if a solid offer comes for boyle with a 2nd rd pick maybe a forward with it and you can sign gordan you do it. we need speed. also like nystrom and with these signings get rid of pyatt asham and powe. we cant keep clowe as he is not worth another 2nd rd pick or the money thats why we trade dz for a top 6 forward, i would not mind the burmistrov and postma deal because there is no way on earth they include their 1st rd pick.
with a new system that preaches offense we need to find more speed especially in our bottom 6 forwards. also want to see mac and moore on pp

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah, Stepan would be the #1 center on a lot of teams, and he would slot in on the second line on many teams. Same with Brassard (2nd/3rd) and Boyle (3rd/4th).

It looks like all three of those players are going to be slotting in at the upper end of their range.

Boyle should not be a center. I guess that is why I am 100% okay in moving him. He does not elevate the play of the players around him and handles the puck horribly. He is far more suited to the wing and I don't like him there over the options this team has. On top of that, moving him to wing removes one of his strengths which is in the face-off dot.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yeah, Stepan would be the #1 center on a lot of teams, and he would slot in on the second line on many teams. Same with Brassard (2nd/3rd) and Boyle (3rd/4th).

It looks like all three of those players are going to be slotting in at the upper end of their range.

Agreed, and its incredibly difficult to win a championship when this sort of thing is happening all over the lineup.

 

[pld459666]

I think that the first order of business in moving forward now is first determining who your core forwards are and who your core defenceman are and look for a coach that can maximize THOSE players.

Then based on who we have identified as our core, we can start to look for players that we can try to sign and or trade for to round out the team.

for me, the core forwards are:

Stepan, Nash, Callahan, Hagelin, Kreider and Brassard (barely)

I wouldn't consider any other forward on the roster or in the system as part of the Rangers core.

On defence:

McDonagh, Moore, Girardi and Staal (barely due to the uncertainty of the eye issues)

the problem as I see it based on the above is that I think that the forward core is just to damn small and soft as a group. I think that alot of those guys lack what Callahan has in spades (Hustle, determination and a sizeable grit factor). Unfortunately Callahan lacks what alot of those other guys possess (natural God given talent and vision)

There are four players that are pretty much set in stonr to start the season as Rangers in October. Stepan, Nash, Callahan and Kreider. Unless we are significantly upgrading the position, I really do not see Brassard getting traded either.

That leaves Hagelin as a core player that in my opinion becomes the most expendable. Would prefer to keep him, but if we can upgrade the LW position in terms of size and scoring ability Hagelin is a good trade chip to dangle.

Probably not realistic, but maybe you approach Colorado with Hagelin and MDZ for Landeskog

MDZ even with what many percieve as a down season had twice as many points as the Av's top point producing defenceman. Granted Erik Johnson was hurt, but even when he's not, he's not the offensive defenceman people thought he was going to become.

Adding MDZ to the back end in addition to adding Hagelin to LW would allow Colorado to take Drouin #1 to replace Landeskog as the teams #1 LW'er.

They upgrade the defence position, replace Landeskog with Drouin and add LW depth with Hagelin.

Rangers add size, scoring ability and a good deal of snarl to our top 6.

I believe that the Rangers "core" as I believe them to be, are to soft.

I don't believe that the core is talented enough that they can make up for the passivity that permeates their hockey DNA

Brassard played well vs Caps, not so well v.s Bos.
Kreider was equally unimpressive against both WAS and BOS
Nash disappointed in both series as did Stepan.

Both Hags and Cally were hurt so that get somewhat of a pass even though Hags did have 6 pts in 12 games.

The question that needs to be asked and answered before any other hypotheticals can be contemplated is:

"What kind of Hockey do the New York Rangers want to play"

A true North South game? If so, we have alot of changes to make.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

The question that needs to be asked and answered before any other hypotheticals can be contemplated is:

"What kind of Hockey do the New York Rangers want to play"

A true North South game? If so, we have alot of changes to make.

I think we have some very mobile forwards and defensemen who are able to join the rush. A god of a goalie in Lundqvist.

This is going to sound out there but it isn't completely implausible.

Get rid of dead weight for some speedy forwards. (Pyatt, Etc)

Call up some speedy depth like Jesper Fasth to fill in empty spots in middle 6 spots.

Use this speed to get in on the forecheck or if possible, start some rushes.
Players like Kreider hagelin and mcdonagh would thrive in this system.


I'm probably talking out of my ass though.

 

[NikC]

lets see what other teams do with their amnesty buyouts. It could make things interesting. I wouldn't mind Vinny L. here for a few years. I'd love Vanek, he's exactly what we need but $$$

with Gaborik and now Richards gone, we're going to need some scoring punch.

you know, with our new top flight system coming in...

 

[NikC]

I think we have some very mobile forwards and defensemen who are able to join the rush. A god of a goalie in Lundqvist.

This is going to sound out there but it isn't completely implausible.

Get rid of dead weight for some speedy forwards. (Pyatt, Etc)

Call up some speedy depth like Jesper Fasth to fill in empty spots in middle 6 spots.

Use this speed to get in on the forecheck or if possible, start some rushes.
Players like Kreider hagelin and mcdonagh would thrive in this system.


I'm probably talking out of my ass though.

i agree, i'd like to see if some of our own players can take over the bottom six opening.

Pyatt and Powe can go. Asham im ok with on the 4th.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think we have some very mobile forwards and defensemen who are able to join the rush. A god of a goalie in Lundqvist.

This is going to sound out there but it isn't completely implausible.

Get rid of dead weight for some speedy forwards. (Pyatt, Etc)

Call up some speedy depth like Jesper Fasth to fill in empty spots in middle 6 spots.

Use this speed to get in on the forecheck or if possible, start some rushes.
Players like Kreider hagelin and mcdonagh would thrive in this system.


I'm probably talking out of my ass though.

I agree with what you wrote so no, I don't believe you are talking out of your ass. The team is built on size and speed. The team was not allowed to use that speed.

lets see what other teams do with their amnesty buyouts. It could make things interesting. I wouldn't mind Vinny L. here for a few years. I'd love Vanek, he's exactly what we need but $$$

with Gaborik and now Richards gone, we're going to need some scoring punch.

you know, with our new top flight system coming in...

I feel like this is a show I have seen before....

 

[NikC]

I feel like this is a show I have seen before....

yea i know. Honestly, I believe Richards will rebound next year to at least 65p+ player. i'd rather keep him, but the CBA leaves us no choice...

I'm not that confident in Stepan as a #1 and Brassard as #2. Vinny L. is no longer a true #1, but would fill in for the loss of B.Rad.

The other day you were high on bringing in some scoring via UFA. don't let these negative nancys get you down.

Trades, Amnesties, UFAs = big time scoring....

 

[NYR Viper]

yea i know. Honestly, I believe Richards will rebound next year to at least 65p+ player. i'd rather keep him, but the CBA leaves us no choice...

I'm not that confident in Stepan as a #1 and Brassard as #2. Vinny L. is no longer a true #1, but would fill in for the loss of B.Rad.

The other day you were high on bringing in some scoring via UFA. don't let these negative nancys get you down.

Trades, Amnesties, UFAs = big time scoring....

I just don't see much out there. I like the idea of Clowe coming back and adding Nystrom. Trade a d-man for a good young forward and sign a UFA d-man. I think that would be about it. Let a couple of kids make the team up front and let them battle in camp.