Speculation: 2013 Off-Season Speculation/Be a GM Thread II

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

its not depth when u have 2 people on the 3rd line better than two in your top 6, thats called mis management

It's not about who's "better", it's about which players fit into which role.

 

[The Gloaming]

This is nuts, first it was Brassard and Hagelin, then Cally, now its hags AND cally on a 3rd line?? This isnt nhl 13. There is not one team in the NHL that BOTH of them would be a 3rd line

Pittsburgh, Boston and Chicago?

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Agree it's pretty utopian to pencil Kreider into the top six.

My view of Cally and Hags on the 3rd line is assuming we either sign our trade for a winger. If nothing much change then yes they stay in the top six.

 

[Raspewtin]

Ok I LOVE Cally. Have his jersey and all. But he was NEVER a top line player. Never at all in his career did I think of him as a top line player (MAYBE in the 2010-2011 season) He's a special teams specialist with good hands and is defensively responsible. He's belonged on the second or third line since day 1, and he should go there now so he can excel in his role.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Agree it's pretty utopian to pencil Kreider into the top six.

My view of Cally and Hags on the 3rd line is assuming we either sign our trade for a winger. If nothing much change then yes they stay in the top six.

Same. They're not on the 3rd line without the acquisition of a goal scoring winger. So perhaps the discussion is moot.

 

[Fitzy]

its not depth when u have 2 people on the 3rd line better than two in your top 6, thats called mis management

It gets complicated.

You want different lines playing different roles. If Zuccarello and another more one dimensional offensive player aren't of the same quality as Callahan and Hagelin, it doesn't matter as long as everyone gets used in the appropriate roles.

Callahan is a first team PK and PP guy. He'll play 19 minutes a night even from the 3rd line. Zucc doesn't play the PK, maybe for the sake of offense you want to get him on the ice with another talented playmaker like Brassard as much as possible.

It's not just about assorting your lineup lines 1-4 according to quality. It's about filling roles.

I wish Greg Carey had gone pro this offseason, he would fit perfectly with Brassard and Zuccarello.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

It gets complicated.

You want different lines playing different roles. If Zuccarello and another more one dimensional offensive player aren't of the same quality as Callahan and Hagelin, it doesn't matter as long as everyone gets used in the appropriate roles.

Callahan is a first team PK and PP guy. He'll play 19 minutes a night even from the 3rd line. Zucc doesn't play the PK, maybe for the sake of offense you want to get him on the ice with another talented playmaker like Brassard as much as possible.

It's not just about assorting your lineup lines 1-4 according to quality. It's about filling roles.

I wish Greg Carey had gone pro this offseason, he would fit perfectly with Brassard and Zuccarello.

Exactly.

People get way too caught up in "line numbers". Like people flipping out about Callahan on the third line. It's not anyone saying Callahan sucks, it's just that, ideally (i.e, on a team capable of winning the cup), that's the role a team would like to see Callahan in. I mean, I guess he's a pretty damn solid second liner, but I'd like to see Callahan's ES minutes get cut, for the sake of his health and production.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

The problem is not or me that Callahan or Hagelin being demoted to 3rd line players, that's probably where they should be. But I just think it's silly that Chris Kreider, a player who failed to crack the top 6 of the Rangers, had subpar AHL production and inconsistent NHL game besides 2 games vs. Boston somehow has surpassed both Hagelin and Callahan, two good proven NHL wingers on the depth chart. Classic 'what have you done for me lately' if I've ever seen one.

Kreider has to earn ice time and he clearly hasn't done it yet.

I'll concede to that. I'm fine with Callahan as a 2nd liner and what not, but I really hope to see CK replace Hagelin at some point in the coming season. Or better yet, acquire a good player and see Hagelin maybe play with Kreider.

 

[Kershaw]

Call me crazy, but I still think young players need to earn their ice time and Kreider hasn't done that yet while Hags and Callahan absolutely have and then some.

Wow, we share the exact same thoughts. Probably should've skimmed through the thread before typing up that reply.

Just look at Detroit, a world class organization and how they handle their prospects. Tomas Tatar, probably the best player in the AHL with NHL pedigree production is still stranded down in the AHL to work on his overall game. Look at Gustav Nyqvist this year, two seasons of above PPG AHL production and even he isn't handled top 6 minutes on a platter like most Rangers fans are suggesting with Kreider. It's not like the Wings have absurd winger depth too. If Kreider was a Wings prospect, he probably wouldn't have been called up.

 

[mti79]

Never thought about moving Cally and Hags down, but maybe it's somthing to consider to give us depth. I'm not annointing Kreider the savior but I like his game and think he can flourish.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Fast-Brassard-Cally
Hagelin-Miller/Lindberg-Zucc
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

Pyatt/Powe

 

[Kwayry]

3 scenarios:
Scenario 1
Re-sign Clowe, lose the 2nd, resign Zuke

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Brass-Zuke
Hagelin-Lindberg-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

Scenario 2:
Trade for Stafford
Stafford can play either wing and has the size and scoring punch the team needs.
He asked out of Buffalo.
They want 2nd + prospect, Rangers don't have a 2nd this year or next, I think a deal like
Stafford for 3rd+5th + mid prospect
can be made.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Brass-Stafford
Hagelin-Lindberg-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

Scenario 3:

If the Rangers don't want to re-sign Clowe and keep the 2nd.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Zuke-Brass-Stafford
Hagelin-Lindberg-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

As much as i love Hagelin, he is the perfect 3rd liner not a top 6 forward.

I like #2 a lot.

 

[Fitzy]

Bigger, younger, tougher, it sounds to me like you guys should be trying to put together a deal for Evander Kane.

 

[GregSirico]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Hags and Cally as 3rd liners?

 

[GregSirico]

Bigger, younger, tougher, it sounds to me like you guys should be trying to put together a deal for Evander Kane.

I wish!!! Don't think that it is possible.

 

[Kwayry]

Bigger, younger, tougher, it sounds to me like you guys should be trying to put together a deal for Evander Kane.

The cost would be prohibitively high, wouldn't you think?

 

[McSauer]

Hags-Lindberg-Fast as the 'Swedish House Mafia' line would make my mouth water as a third line...

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Hags and Cally as 3rd liners?

nope, our offense would be ridiculously good if they were

 

[Fitzy]

The cost would be prohibitively high, wouldn't you think?

My greater point is that it's really, really hard to land these qualities in one package.

Horton will be overpaid and has injuries.
Clowe has added cost, can't skate, is old.
Antropov doesn't score any more.

If you really want a young, skating, physical winger who can score, you have to be willing to pay big time. Otherwise, we're best off trying to find another way to solve our needs.

My take has always been that you get your grit out of your bottom 6 players, where it's cheap. Then you have more finesse scoring players like Gaborik, Brassard, Zuccarello. Trying to get the complete package is going to backfire in price and in the rest of your lineup.

 

[Kwayry]

nope, our offense would be ridiculously good if they were

Agreed. would also make it one of the best 3rd lines in the league.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

The cost would be prohibitively high, wouldn't you think?

since we're throwing out names for fun, Blake Wheeler

 

[Kakko]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Hags and Cally as 3rd liners?

Cally is a second liner, even though he is in the top 90 in terms of scoring.

Hagelin, at this point, should ideally be on the third, but he can still improve

 

[Kwayry]

My greater point is that it's really, really hard to land these qualities in one package.

Horton will be overpaid and has injuries.
Clowe has added cost, can't skate, is old.
Antropov doesn't score any more.

If you really want a young, skating, physical winger who can score, you have to be willing to pay big time. Otherwise, we're best off trying to find another way to solve our needs.

My take has always been that you get your grit out of your bottom 6 players, where it's cheap. Then you have more finesse scoring players like Gaborik, Brassard, Zuccarello. Trying to get the complete package is going to backfire in price and in the rest of your lineup.

I agree on Horton, disagree on Clowe, he is not old. But your overall point has merit.

 

[Kwayry]

since we're throwing out names for fun, Blake Wheeler

sounds good, at what cost?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Yeah, Wheeler isn't even remotely realistic. Probably as unrealistic as Evander Kane. Winnipeg has 0 RW depth.

 

[GregSirico]

Cally is a second liner, even though he is in the top 90 in terms of scoring.

Hagelin, at this point, should ideally be on the third, but he can still improve

I think they are both "second liners"