2013 New Jersey Devils (Team News, Player Discussion - Part VI)

[SteveCangialosi123]

I'm not a big fan but Tallinder wasn't that bad last game, he was fine. He's not slow, he looks slow cause of his height and stride just like Larsson. Volch and especially Sal are slow. I'm just tired of the D chasing guys behind the goal line and leaving guys open in front. It's part of the swarm mentality but it's not working now on the PK.

I didn't see last game so I can't comment on Tallinder's performance, but he looks really slow to me. The stride thing probably has some truth to it, but he looks slow compared to other players on the ice to me. Hope that didnt get me on your ignore list if I'm not already there haha

 

[Emperoreddy]

I've seen every single defenseman on this team get coned numerous times except for Green maybe. It's not about speed, it's about getting caught flat footed or out of position. Larsson has gotten much better this year regarding that. I would think Stevens and the staff see and know things that us fans don't even think of, I trust them to make the right decisions.

I like your posts Bleed, seems everyone has it out for one player or another here. Sal has been brutal many times as well as Volch too.

I think the problem is he shouldn't be playing OVER Fayne if Fayne is healthy because you are right Tally wasn't that bad on Monday. We have Harrold and some other journeyman sitting in the box no one would be clamoring for Tally to be sitting.

 

[NJDevs26]

I would love a reason why. At least I get if he is hurt. What other good reason is there? Any our record is pretty good, and OVERALL over 15 games we have played good hockey, especially in context with the rest of the east. The End for me on that topic.

If he was hurt I don't get the point of hiding it as opposed to calling it an upper body injury and saying that. Benching Larsson, and now Fayne proves how much of a folly the eight D thing is. And this 'is' something worth complaining about.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

wow its like every game is going to the shootout in the west. Pretty crazy stuff over there.

At this point, I feel like nothing's gonna be done about it until Pittsburgh or Chicago or Boston misses the playoffs thanks to some team's loss-inflated point total. There's so much parity in the league now that the regular season is turning into a coinflip. There's no reason to expect that the top teams will do well in the playoffs anymore.

 

[Emperoreddy]

If he was hurt I don't get the point of hiding it as opposed to calling it an upper body injury and saying that. Benching Larsson, and now Fayne proves how much of a folly the eight D thing is. And this 'is' something worth complaining about.

That I think everyone can agree on. We want one of these guys out of, preferably in a package that gives us a forward. No reason for 8 D right now or in the future.

 

[Zippy316]

At this point, I feel like nothing's gonna be done about it until Pittsburgh or Chicago or Boston misses the playoffs thanks to some team's loss-inflated point total. There's so much parity in the league now that the regular season is turning into a coinflip. There's no reason to expect that the top teams will do well in the playoffs anymore.

That's why I always tell people the standings don't really matter unless you are top 8 in your conference.

In the playoffs, it's a total toss-up. It's not like the days of the inter-division playoffs when the first seeded team played a miserable 4th seeded team and beat them easily. You're playing a team that's either equal to you or maybe a bit inferior.

Even the playoffs now are toss ups. It's why I laugh when people try to tell me the Blackhawks will win the cup this year, or the Kings will repeat, or when the Penguins are playing very well they are cup favorites, etc. I remind them that last year, there was a time when the Penguins won 12 straight (or something absurd like that) games and Boston was physically dominating opponents. Then remind them of what happened in their respective playoff series.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

When I hear all this talk about Chicago, I just think about how scary-good Boston looked at the beginning of last season. Everything's going their way right now. They're getting all the bounces and they still gave up a 2-goal lead with 2 minutes left last night. Same with Anaheim. They're getting ALL the bounces right now, and stellar play out of an unknown goalie. They're a two-line team with laughable depth on both O and D.

At the same time, they're still both really good teams. They're just not head-over-heels above the rest of the league like it currently looks.

 

[NJDevs26]

There's a reason that until last year, no team seeded lower than 5 won the Cup.

There's also a reason why, until last year, only one team seeded lower than 4 won the Cup.

NHL has parity but the best teams are still far and away the best teams and make it deep in the playoffs more often than you see in the NFL or MLB.

So in other words, the cutoff is top 4 or you can't make a Cup run because of 'history' when three underdogs in the last decade lost a Game 7 in the Finals, and another lost Game 6 in OT? It was a barrier for a long time, but the Kings shattered it last year like Roger Bannister running the mile, and now that it's happened it wouldn't shock me if it started happening more often.

 

[Bleedred]

If he was hurt I don't get the point of hiding it as opposed to calling it an upper body injury and saying that. Benching Larsson, and now Fayne proves how much of a folly the eight D thing is. And this 'is' something worth complaining about.

I've been saying it since this last Summer. Having 8 defensemen is stupid when we need help up front. Well we didn't really need help up front for a while. We got Poni for Zubes, now Carter goes down. Yeah we still have that luxury of 8 defensemen, but where's our forwards? It doesn't help that with our luck forwards are going down injured, but not defensemen. We can much sooner afford to lose someone back there.

So yeah we have our 8 defensemen, but now our forwards are going down.

 

[Zippy316]

So in other words, the cutoff is top 4 or you can't make a Cup run because of 'history' when three underdogs in the last decade lost a Game 7 in the Finals, and another lost Game 6 in OT? It was a barrier for a long time, but the Kings shattered it last year like Roger Bannister running the mile, and now that it's happened it wouldn't shock me if it started happening more often.

It's been shattered for the least six or seven years. The Kings winning the Cup as an eight seed just brought it to more attention.

Hell, there's probably teams that missed the playoffs that could've won it last year if they were playing on the top of their game. In 2009-10, the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 8th seeds all won the first round series, furthermore, the ECF was 7th versus 8th.

It's been happening. Look at all the playoffs from the lockout on, I believe one year in the East, the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th seeds all won in the playoffs over the higher seeded teams.

 

[JK3]

Yeah we're all frustrated, all I'm saying is there is a reason why Fayne is out. He had a few screwups the last few games, the family thing, banged up maybe, shopping Tallinder, getting all our D in the lineup. All or some of the above, who knows. All I know is they are going to ice the best possible lineup they can given the situation, you have to trust that. Of course we can still speculate and ***** about it though.

SteveCangialosi123, no your not on the ignore list lol. The overwhelming majority on here are knowledgeable smart posters and/or very entertaining. I've never done it till this year. There seems to have maybe been an influx of young kids maybe that just post silly stuff. I'm old and grumpy so it annoys the hell out of me.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I think the problem is he shouldn't be playing OVER Fayne if Fayne is healthy because you are right Tally wasn't that bad on Monday. We have Harrold and some other journeyman sitting in the box no one would be clamoring for Tally to be sitting.

Yeah this is my thing. I'd rather see Tallinder playing than Volchenkov or Salvador (and I like them both, just not at the same time), but sitting him for Fayne just doesn't seem worth the trade off. I think Tallinder should be playing, but not at the expense of one of our best defensemen.

 

[devilsblood]

There's a reason that until last year, no team seeded lower than 5 won the Cup.

There's also a reason why, until last year, only one team seeded lower than 4 won the Cup.

NHL has parity but the best teams are still far and away the best teams and make it deep in the playoffs more often than you see in the NFL or MLB.

Seems like a pretty strong argument.

OK Kings broke through last year, and sure NBA is more predictable, but facts are facts. Top 4 teams are typically who win the cup. By a wide margin.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah this is my thing. I'd rather see Tallinder playing than Volchenkov or Salvador (and I like them both, just not at the same time), but sitting him for Fayne just doesn't seem worth the trade off. I think Tallinder should be playing, but not at the expense of one of our best defensemen.

And this does raise the question of why Deboer does not rotate the whole of the D corp. Or at least more of the guys. Why is it never Volch?

And if naming Sal capt means that he must play every game then maybe that wasn't the best move. I actually think this has been an underlying issue also in regards to a trade. It seemingly limits our options.

 

[DevilChuk*]

So in other words, the cutoff is top 4 or you can't make a Cup run because of 'history' when three underdogs in the last decade lost a Game 7 in the Finals, and another lost Game 6 in OT? It was a barrier for a long time, but the Kings shattered it last year like Roger Bannister running the mile, and now that it's happened it wouldn't shock me if it started happening more often.

Seems like a pretty strong argument.

OK Kings broke through last year, and sure NBA is more predictable, but facts are facts. Top 4 teams are typically who win the cup. By a wide margin.

No, it's not a cutoff. But your odds of winning drastically increase when you are in the top 4 because you are a better team.

3 underdogs in the last decade = 3 out of 20 teams. What's better? 3/20 or 17/20?

Since the lockout (cause hell, my argument just gets better as you go farther back..)
Going by top 4 by points, not because of divisional rankings:

Kings 2012- 8th
Devils 2012- 4th
Bruins 2011- 4th
Canucks 2011- 1st
Blackhawks 2010- 2nd
Flyers 2010- 7th
Penguins 2009- 4th
Red Wings 2009- 2nd
Penguins 2008- 2nd
Red Wings 2008- 1st
Ducks 2007- 2nd
Senators 2007- 3rd
Hurricanes 2006- 2nd
Oilers 2006- 8th

So out of 14 teams, 3 were lower than 4th seed. Not to mention only one of those teams won the Cup.

Yes, your odds of winning are drastically higher if you are a higher seed.

2 1st
5 2nd
1 3rd
3 4th
2 7th
1 8th

 

[Oroku Saki*]

And this does raise the question of why Deboer does not rotate the whole of the D corp. Or at least more of the guys. Why is it never Volch?

And if naming Sal capt means that he must play every game then maybe that wasn't the best move. I actually think this has been an underlying issue also in regards to a trade. It seemingly limits our options.

Because Volch is special.

Seriously though, he's the only guy who makes you pay a price in the corners and along the boards. That and Pete loves tough guys.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah we're all frustrated, all I'm saying is there is a reason why Fayne is out. He had a few screwups the last few games, the family thing, banged up maybe, shopping Tallinder, getting all our D in the lineup. All or some of the above, who knows. All I know is they are going to ice the best possible lineup they can given the situation, you have to trust that. Of course we can still speculate and ***** about it though.

SteveCangialosi123, no your not on the ignore list lol. The overwhelming majority on here are knowledgeable smart posters and/or very entertaining. I've never done it till this year. There seems to have maybe been an influx of young kids maybe that just post silly stuff. I'm old and grumpy so it annoys the hell out of me.

Also Tallinder had a "long talk with Pete" last weekend too so apparently his *****ing helped his cause I guess.

 

[Zippy316]

Seems like a pretty strong argument.

OK Kings broke through last year, and sure NBA is more predictable, but facts are facts. Top 4 teams are typically who win the cup. By a wide margin.

Last five years: WCF-ECF

3 vs. 8 - 1 vs. 6 (#8 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 5 vs. 3 (#3 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 7 vs. 8 (#2 seed won cup)
2 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 4 (#4 seed won cup)
1 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 2 (#1 seed won cup)

I'll give you the top four usually win the cup. Just take a look at the seeds in the ECF, nothing is guaranteed whatsoever. The West is like that mainly due to the Red Wings, or else it would be just like the East in most years I'm betting.

 

[Bleedred]

I think because of the PK (Which has been struggling before the last game) Pete does not scratch Volchenkov. Salvador won't be scratched cause he has the C. Unless he becomes Jay Pandolfo level bad.

I don't think we should have to scratch anybody other than the guy who is supposed to be the number 7 Harrold.

Because we have EIGHT defensemen with SEVEN who are NHL caliber every night guys we have to have these discussions.

Now let's be serious. If we only had 7 there might be the occasional poster wanting to sit Salvador or Volchenkov for Harrold. Though because we have 8, we're talking about who to scratch a lot which is understandable.

 

[DevilChuk*]

Between lockouts: WCF-ECF

3 vs. 8 - 1 vs. 6 (#8 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 5 vs. 3 (#3 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 7 vs. 8 (#2 seed won cup)
2 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 4 (#4 seed won cup)
1 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 2 (#1 seed won cup)

I'll give you the top four usually win the cup. Just take a look at the seeds in the ECF, nothing is guaranteed whatsoever. The West is like that mainly due to the Red Wings, or else it would be just like the East in most years I'm betting.

How many of those 6's played a weaker 3 in the first round? Big thing to consider there..

And again, we had the 4th most points in the East last year. 6th seed because of tiebreakers and division seeding.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Last five years: WCF-ECF

3 vs. 8 - 1 vs. 6 (#8 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 5 vs. 3 (#3 seed won cup)
1 vs. 2 - 7 vs. 8 (#2 seed won cup)
2 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 4 (#4 seed won cup)
1 vs. 4 - 6 vs. 2 (#1 seed won cup)

I'll give you the top four usually win the cup. Just take a look at the seeds in the ECF, nothing is guaranteed whatsoever. The West is like that mainly due to the Red Wings, or else it would be just like the East in most years I'm betting.

So really your odds of winning as a higher seed are better if you are the Red Wings Everyone else AIM LOW (ask the Sharks what being the top seed has done for them over the years)

 

[Bleedred]

Some people have suggested to do away with the automatic top 3 seeding. Like for example if the southeast winner has as many points as the 7th seed team then they get the 7th seed. They still get the division winning banner, but do not get 3rd place.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

I hear chewing on ice will make you less frustrated.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I hear chewing on ice will make you less frustrated.

I heard that chewing on ice is a sign of frustration...

 

[DevilChuk*]

So really your odds of winning as a higher seed are better if you are the Red Wings Everyone else AIM LOW (ask the Sharks what being the top seed has done for them over the years)

You probably shouldn't quit your day job and get into analyzing statistics.. not what that data says at all besides how foolish that sounds.

Hey, screw home ice, let's intentionally lose games so we can get 8 seed because last year, a 8 seed won the Cup!!! Master plan.

Some people have suggested to do away with the automatic top 3 seeding. Like for example if the southeast winner has as many points as the 7th seed team then they get the 7th seed. They still get the division winning banner, but do not get 3rd place.

I like the way the NBA does it. Guaranteed a top 4 seed but not top 3. I like giving division winner home ice but I think it's unfair that the team who finishes 6th usually have an easier first round opponent. With their system, the only really unfair thing is a better 5th seed having to play a division winner on their home ice but that's not as huge of a deal.