Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread Part 2

[Blue Blooded]

You other post is too long to respond to, i will use this one.
Dman's primary task is to prevent goals/shots/shot attempts against as you say. But your lengthy post doesn't address any of that actually, you dismiss the part that focuses on those attributes.

Blocks prevent goals from being scored, minimizes the shots and shot attempts. Dismissing that right off the bat is peculiar. And flies in the face of your own stated objective for a Dman above.
Girardi prevents goals from being scored, that's what a shutdown Dman is for. Girardi is not and will never be an elite offensive Dman. I already stipulated that in the previous post.


Your post goes to great length about possession numbers for a Dman, but they are really meaningless for a shutdown D.

The disturbing part is you cherry picked which stats to use that is convenient to your argument.




So the sample size is too small for the stat that favors Girardi but not for the stat that disfavors him as a shutdown D?
Conclusion: Girardi a brutal year.

Really?

I wrote that conclusion before I had reviewed the other seasons, it was actually probably his best year.

I de-emphasized all the goal-based stats in the "without" comparisons, there was no cherry picking.

I did so because the sample size for Corsi events and goal events is massively different. As you could see there are ~100 Corsi events per 60 minutes, but only ~5 goals. Therefore the Corsi sample is ~20 times the size of the goal sample.

Seriously, I explicitly stated each time I brought up a goal-based stat that it is unreliable due to sample size.

Possession numbers are not useless for shutdown D. Extensive studies have been made that prove that a defenceman cannot significantly or sustainably affect his goalie's save percentage. Therefore their primary concern is limiting shots against. It would probably be better to use Fenwick as it excludes blocked shots, but I don't have access to Fenwick-based WOWY charts.

Still, who do you want on the ice against the toughest opposition: The defenceman that "handles" the D-zone well but cannot break out and therefore allows chance after chance? Or the defenceman that efficiently transports the puck up the ice and instead spends hi shift in the offensive zone?

I know who I'd prefer paying $5M+/year.

 

[OverTheCap]

As a complete defenseman, I would rank Girardi between 35th and 40th.

As a purely defensive defenseman, I would put him in the top 15.

He has been blessed with some very good defensive partners. He looks a lot worse playing with Del Zotto.

Agreed on all points.

Girardi has played his best hockey with Staal, McDonagh, and in his earlier years, Tyutin, as his defensive partners. However, Girardi has struggled when paired with the likes of Redden and Del Zotto.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

A little vacation is fine, but these guys basically have 2-3 months off or even more!

20 days is way too little. 60 days with a bit more practice time is not unreasonable at all IMO.

Many teams couldn't afford it--they have to have the training center open, pay their staff, pay the coaches, pay the players meal and hotel money, pay insurance. It can't be voluntary and the league won't pay to make it mandatory.

 

[Tawnos]

So how well a defenceman prevents goals/shots/shot attempts against is totally meaningless?

I thought that was their primary task on the ice?

I mean pure points is usually a bad way to measure a defenceman's value, but that isn't at all what the above post is about.

It is about how the team performed with certain players on/off the ice.

There are too many factors to accurately judge these things using advanced stats alone. Stats can only inform the conversation. They can't dictate it.

 

[Tawnos]

As a complete defenseman, I would rank Girardi between 35th and 40th.

As a purely defensive defenseman, I would put him in the top 15.

He has been blessed with some very good defensive partners. He looks a lot worse playing with Del Zotto.

Personally, I would say that he's blessed his D partners more than the other way around. His presence generally allows them to thrive. The 4-5 pair only surfaced for the first time last year, which was definitely a down year for him.

 

[Pastafazul*]

need the big shot

better play tonite from these guys but we are still missing the big shot from the point on PP,

 

[ecemleafs]

moore has a big shot.

 

[BBKers]

Brooks marketing the sale - showcase was a success

An entire piece in The Post - almost all about... Darroll Powe???
http://nypost.com/2013/09/17/no-room-on-rangers-for-just-an-enforcer/

Damn Larry, could you be a bit more subtle?

Here is my post about Powe as a response to a RB comment from this thread yesterday. Right on the money.

Powe is playing again tonight

http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/3...des-another-chance-for-dom-moore#.Ujg4ThYsrFI

Waivers start later this week.

3 players are playing again tonight. Powe is one of them.

The word "showcase" comes to mind. Watch him pot one tonight!

What were the odds of that happening? Who says nobody can see the future?

 

[Ola]

I caught streams of Monday and Tuesdays games and I haven't commented after the scrimmages either, so here are some overall thoughts on the players:

Stepan, Hagelin and Callahan

Dubinsky and Anisimov traded; Stepan, Hagelin and Callahan MIA. Where is our core? Heck, even JT Miller is MIA.

Kreider with Richards and Nash

I am a bit torn on this, CK. I've been close to post something like "why exactly again is Kreider on our first line?" on occasions. Not only might he not be the best fit, but aren't you also setting him up to fail?

But in the end, I might not have a big problem with it. Kreider isn't ready. He is square. He is strong as a bull and really fast. Shoots hard. Why not let Brad Richards mold him? Massage him into this role?

But there is always a if. For this to work, Kreider needs to be able to piggyback on BR and Nash's production. If BR and Nash can score around 0.8 and 0.9 PPG "despite" playing playing with Kreider, while Kreider pots around 0.5 PPG, it can work and the bottom line can be pretty darn great if Kreider can grow into the role. So maybe its worth a go. But it needs to be give a lot of time.

Oscar Lindberg

Expectations and evaluations go hand in hand at this place. But Oscar Lindberg is what he is. (a bit poetic!? )

In all seriousness, he has had a great camp so far. A solid game yesterday too. He is not going to stand out by himself, that is just not his game. And that will never be his game. He is really smart defensively (but still a bit young and rough around the edges. He will make gaffs too). He is great on FOs. And he can make plays offensively, but he won't line them up. He will make all the NHL level standard plays too. Fast crisp passes. Etc.

For Lindberg to stand out offensively, he needs to play with good offensive NHL players. Be it with Nash, be it with Brassard or Zuccarello, be it with Hagelin or Callahan. With guys like that, we can expect 3-4 good plays a night. A really opening pass here and there. A stick handle move that gets him past his man. A good shot. And a strong defensive game. Lindberg is not Brassard II or Zuccarello II offensively.

Jesper Fast

Strong game from him yesterday. Strong on the puck, good plays with the puck, he moved around well without the puck.

He didn't quite stick out as someone that should make the team, not at least this team. We have quite good depth when everyone is back at least.

Fast will be 21-22 this year. In comparision, Ryan Callahan played 14 games in the NHL when he was the age Fast is now. Callahan had 13 pts in 52 games when he was a a year older than Fast is now. Carl Hagelin made his debut in the NHL when he was 23 y/o, ie almost two full years older than Fast.

Preferbly, Fast would have been more of a factor with his skating on a shift by shift basis and a little stronger on the puck. But, the bottom line from my point of view gotta be that with a 21 y/o kid being as good as Fast was yesterday, we got reason to believe that this kid gonna develop alot over the coming couple of years and become a good player for us. My hope is that he eventually can slide in somewhere on a scale from Hagelin to Callahan. Its not a give, health is still an issue and so forth. But he will be exciting to follow.

Danny Kristo

I like alot of things I see from him. I also think we can see why Montreal traded him for Christian Thomas. Don't get me wrong, Thomas is a solid prospect who has potential to play in this league. But he is also somewhat of a questionmark.

Kristo seems like a bit of a happy go lucky kid who was a dominant force at a really high level, US college hockey, last season. He is hardly a slacker. But at this level, he is not a big positive factor without the puck. He doesn't play "good", and with that I mean above avg NHL hockey (good is better than avg), hockey away from the puck. There is 1 or 2 spots on a team for a forward who has a goto role, gets served pucks on his stick and has the two other forwards and D's adjust to him, and odds are just that Kristo isn't good enough for a role like that. He gotta aim at more of a smaller role at a 2nd line or 3rd line. And to win that role he gotta be good away from the puck. What he lacks is intensity in his skating and smarts without the puck. He is already 23 but I wouldn't rule out that he has more to give away from the ice etc.

The postive side of Kristo is definitely his play with the puck. We lack his smarts with the puck, his poise and ability to open things up with a right stick.

I definitely like the trade we make and overall I am positive on Kristo. Wouldn't expect him to make the team, but who really knows if we run into scoring woes etc.

Marek Hrivik

Hrivik makes some good plays out there on the ice. He has missed a lot of time lately, and he isn't quite there yet. Probably is on the outside looking in right now, but there are some fundamental strong holds in his game.

Dylan McIlrath

We are in the midst of a process we just gotta ride out.

I can add one thing. The more structured a game is. The further we go into the season, the more set things are, the easier it will be for McIlrath to stay on the right side of the puck. And when he is on the right side of the puck, he is ok.

But as it is right now, McIlrath won't beat the competition and win a spot in our top 6. More time in the AHL will be great for him. Lets check in on him this coming spring or in October 2014.

Marc Staal

Awsome to see Marc Staal out there. Someone commented that it was obvious to spot who our top 6 D's are, and that is really on the money and a great thing because it says more about them than the guys on the outside looking in. We got a very strong top 6.

MDZ

I need to see more from him on the right side. For this to work well, we gotta have a top unit with Richards/Nash and a set pair of Staal and MDZ, and that unit really gotta develop chemistry with each other.

Changes can be made, there will be openings on opening night due to injuries, but in a really broad picture this is kind of how I see us:

Kreider-BR-Nash//Needs to work really hard as a five man unit to become a dominant offensive top line. A key is that Staal and DZ works in close connection with the forwards, and are given alot of time with them, to find ways to achive the offensive result. Will push the players, but they have potential.
Staal-MDZ

Pouliot-Brassard-Zucc//A "2nd line", unit, when a game goes our way. Offensive potential. Good offensive support from the blueline. Will play a smaller role when a game is really thight.
Moore-Strålman

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan//AV's goto unit when he really needs "it". Super solid unit. Will get clutch shifts offensively and defensively.
McD-Girardi

Dorsett-Moore-Boyle

My point is, for that first line, who ever is LW on it or centers it, for it to be very strong offensively they need a great deal of offensive support from the blueline. Staal will try to meet that challenge and it can push him to the next level. MDZ will need to get it done from the right side.

Dom Moore

Dom Moore is a good 4th line C. Important to have.

Pouliot and Pyatt

Both brings diffrent things. Can get it done in the areas they are strong in. If they play, and Pouliot will definitely play from the get go, they will be decent. But I am not quite sure we need either to be honest. Especially not down the road this season.

Brian Boyle

I don't want to loose Boyle.

Powe, Asham and JT Miller (!)

Slats really loaded up on depth and he has not ridden himself of any deadweight up until this point. I think Asham played well on Monday. He picked up where he left things late last year. I don't like Powe as a center, but he can be a energy PKing 4th line winger. JT Miller is a really young kid who wasn't quite there last season, but still made an impression when he hit the ice. Normally a kid like him develops alot over a summer. I don't know what AV thinks, what his plans are, but these guys could play and still find themselves 1-4 spots away from a spot on the team.

 

[Ail]

There are a lot of who's making it and who isn't going around, but we are only 2 split-squad games in to a 6 game preseason. I think it is obvious who is not making the cuts today and who will get the long look, but one good or bad game in a split squad from the long look players is not going to write their eulogy.

They have another set of practices and a week of games to show they can hack it with the guys who are a lock for this team. I agree the vets are making it very hard for the kids to make their place in the line-up, but until the end of next week I'm not writing anyone off, or penciling them in.

Consistency is the key.

 

[Ola]

There are a lot of who's making it and who isn't going around, but we are only 2 split-squad games in to a 6 game preseason. I think it is obvious who is not making the cuts today and who will get the long look, but one good or bad game in a split squad from the long look players is not going to write their eulogy.

They have another set of practices and a week of games to show they can hack it with the guys who are a lock for this team. I agree the vets are making it very hard for the kids to make their place in the line-up, but until the end of next week I'm not writing anyone off, or penciling them in.

Consistency is the key.

Good point.

My hunch is just that the kids will have a hard time beating out not one of the vets, but all of the 3-4 vets they need to beat out, to make it and stay once everyone is back. But, like you say, they will get chances and if they play to stay during those chances, why wouldn't they play.

 

[Ail]

Good point.

My hunch is just that the kids will have a hard time beating out not one of the vets, but all of the 3-4 vets they need to beat out, to make it and stay once everyone is back. But, like you say, they will get chances and if they play to stay during those chances, why wouldn't they play.

I agree completely.

I also feel the large majority of your assesment individually thus far is accurate.
Some players have dug themselves holes and others just need to keep doing their thing to prove they're ready over the next week and a half.

 

[Levitate]

I think realistically this season, Fast and Lindberg and Kristo will be more depth players than anything else. Some of them might fill in while Hagelin and Callahan are out, and then be callups for other injuries or if other players just aren't performing. Teams hardly ever finish the season with the same lineup and these guys will be pushing for those roster spots, but will probably spend most of the season in Hartford.

Next season is where I see them really earning a spot on the team in order to help replace some departing depth (or even some bigger name players...who knows, maybe Callahan doesn't re-sign, you can't really know at this point)

On defense guys like Allen and McIlrath are kind of the same. They're not going to make the team but the Rangers need some depth back there to help them when they need it.

Like I said in the gamethread, Fast and Lindberg look like good possession players which is a real good thing for the future.

 

[eco's bones]

I caught streams of Monday and Tuesdays games and I haven't commented after the scrimmages either, so here are some overall thoughts on the players:

Stepan, Hagelin and Callahan

Dubinsky and Anisimov traded; Stepan, Hagelin and Callahan MIA. Where is our core? Heck, even JT Miller is MIA.

Kreider with Richards and Nash

I am a bit torn on this, CK. I've been close to post something like "why exactly again is Kreider on our first line?" on occasions. Not only might he not be the best fit, but aren't you also setting him up to fail?

But in the end, I might not have a big problem with it. Kreider isn't ready. He is square. He is strong as a bull and really fast. Shoots hard. Why not let Brad Richards mold him? Massage him into this role?

But there is always a if. For this to work, Kreider needs to be able to piggyback on BR and Nash's production. If BR and Nash can score around 0.8 and 0.9 PPG "despite" playing playing with Kreider, while Kreider pots around 0.5 PPG, it can work and the bottom line can be pretty darn great if Kreider can grow into the role. So maybe its worth a go. But it needs to be give a lot of time.

Oscar Lindberg

Expectations and evaluations go hand in hand at this place. But Oscar Lindberg is what he is. (a bit poetic!? )

In all seriousness, he has had a great camp so far. A solid game yesterday too. He is not going to stand out by himself, that is just not his game. And that will never be his game. He is really smart defensively (but still a bit young and rough around the edges. He will make gaffs too). He is great on FOs. And he can make plays offensively, but he won't line them up. He will make all the NHL level standard plays too. Fast crisp passes. Etc.

For Lindberg to stand out offensively, he needs to play with good offensive NHL players. Be it with Nash, be it with Brassard or Zuccarello, be it with Hagelin or Callahan. With guys like that, we can expect 3-4 good plays a night. A really opening pass here and there. A stick handle move that gets him past his man. A good shot. And a strong defensive game. Lindberg is not Brassard II or Zuccarello II offensively.

Jesper Fast

Strong game from him yesterday. Strong on the puck, good plays with the puck, he moved around well without the puck.

He didn't quite stick out as someone that should make the team, not at least this team. We have quite good depth when everyone is back at least.

Fast will be 21-22 this year. In comparision, Ryan Callahan played 14 games in the NHL when he was the age Fast is now. Callahan had 13 pts in 52 games when he was a a year older than Fast is now. Carl Hagelin made his debut in the NHL when he was 23 y/o, ie almost two full years older than Fast.

Preferbly, Fast would have been more of a factor with his skating on a shift by shift basis and a little stronger on the puck. But, the bottom line from my point of view gotta be that with a 21 y/o kid being as good as Fast was yesterday, we got reason to believe that this kid gonna develop alot over the coming couple of years and become a good player for us. My hope is that he eventually can slide in somewhere on a scale from Hagelin to Callahan. Its not a give, health is still an issue and so forth. But he will be exciting to follow.

Danny Kristo

I like alot of things I see from him. I also think we can see why Montreal traded him for Christian Thomas. Don't get me wrong, Thomas is a solid prospect who has potential to play in this league. But he is also somewhat of a questionmark.

Kristo seems like a bit of a happy go lucky kid who was a dominant force at a really high level, US college hockey, last season. He is hardly a slacker. But at this level, he is not a big positive factor without the puck. He doesn't play "good", and with that I mean above avg NHL hockey (good is better than avg), hockey away from the puck. There is 1 or 2 spots on a team for a forward who has a goto role, gets served pucks on his stick and has the two other forwards and D's adjust to him, and odds are just that Kristo isn't good enough for a role like that. He gotta aim at more of a smaller role at a 2nd line or 3rd line. And to win that role he gotta be good away from the puck. What he lacks is intensity in his skating and smarts without the puck. He is already 23 but I wouldn't rule out that he has more to give away from the ice etc.

The postive side of Kristo is definitely his play with the puck. We lack his smarts with the puck, his poise and ability to open things up with a right stick.

I definitely like the trade we make and overall I am positive on Kristo. Wouldn't expect him to make the team, but who really knows if we run into scoring woes etc.

Marek Hrivik

Hrivik makes some good plays out there on the ice. He has missed a lot of time lately, and he isn't quite there yet. Probably is on the outside looking in right now, but there are some fundamental strong holds in his game.

Dylan McIlrath

We are in the midst of a process we just gotta ride out.

I can add one thing. The more structured a game is. The further we go into the season, the more set things are, the easier it will be for McIlrath to stay on the right side of the puck. And when he is on the right side of the puck, he is ok.

But as it is right now, McIlrath won't beat the competition and win a spot in our top 6. More time in the AHL will be great for him. Lets check in on him this coming spring or in October 2014.

Marc Staal

Awsome to see Marc Staal out there. Someone commented that it was obvious to spot who our top 6 D's are, and that is really on the money and a great thing because it says more about them than the guys on the outside looking in. We got a very strong top 6.

MDZ

I need to see more from him on the right side. For this to work well, we gotta have a top unit with Richards/Nash and a set pair of Staal and MDZ, and that unit really gotta develop chemistry with each other.

Changes can be made, there will be openings on opening night due to injuries, but in a really broad picture this is kind of how I see us:

Kreider-BR-Nash//Needs to work really hard as a five man unit to become a dominant offensive top line. A key is that Staal and DZ works in close connection with the forwards, and are given alot of time with them, to find ways to achive the offensive result. Will push the players, but they have potential.
Staal-MDZ

Pouliot-Brassard-Zucc//A "2nd line", unit, when a game goes our way. Offensive potential. Good offensive support from the blueline. Will play a smaller role when a game is really thight.
Moore-Strålman

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan//AV's goto unit when he really needs "it". Super solid unit. Will get clutch shifts offensively and defensively.
McD-Girardi

Dorsett-Moore-Boyle

My point is, for that first line, who ever is LW on it or centers it, for it to be very strong offensively they need a great deal of offensive support from the blueline. Staal will try to meet that challenge and it can push him to the next level. MDZ will need to get it done from the right side.

Dom Moore

Dom Moore is a good 4th line C. Important to have.

Pouliot and Pyatt

Both brings diffrent things. Can get it done in the areas they are strong in. If they play, and Pouliot will definitely play from the get go, they will be decent. But I am not quite sure we need either to be honest. Especially not down the road this season.

Brian Boyle

I don't want to loose Boyle.

Powe, Asham and JT Miller (!)

Slats really loaded up on depth and he has not ridden himself of any deadweight up until this point. I think Asham played well on Monday. He picked up where he left things late last year. I don't like Powe as a center, but he can be a energy PKing 4th line winger. JT Miller is a really young kid who wasn't quite there last season, but still made an impression when he hit the ice. Normally a kid like him develops alot over a summer. I don't know what AV thinks, what his plans are, but these guys could play and still find themselves 1-4 spots away from a spot on the team.

Very good post. It's a lot for a new coaching staff to sort out. Some of the players will sort themselves out on their own though.

Yesterday's game I really liked Fast most of all. Speed, quickness, awareness of where the puck was going, smart defensively--involved in the game--just looked to me like a well schooled player. Lindberg seems to have the better camp and he played very well last night as well. Could easily project either or both in the NHL this year.

Really didn't think the Richards-Nash-Kreider line was all that impressive. Personally Richards is going to have to turn me into a believer again. We all know about last season but even the season before he had difficulty finding chemistry with other players--for instance he and Gaborik who would finish the season over 40 goals. Richards can still put up a decent amount of offense if he comes in more determined but after his two years here I don't look at him as a go to center and won't unless he can start finding chemistry with someone--anyone.

OTOH Brassard and Zucc seem to be more the catalyst type player that Richards use to be. I've been hugely impressed by Brassard since he landed here--good speed, great hands, seeing eye passes on the tape. New York may turn out to be the best thing that ever happens to him. So as for Pouliot--he may be a guy who will play will with those--someone who won't carry the puck up and down the ice but has a lot of talent and can find seams in the defense and finish.

As for some of the others I have always like Dom Moore and Boyle is a good player when given a role. His size is important too.

Defensively Staal looked a little rusty but was fine overall. John Moore looks like a player here to stay--great speed, puck skills, good shot--good in his own end. McDonagh, Girardi and Stralman were their usual solid selves and Del Zotto was good. Don't really see much changing in the scheme of things here. It's more like who is going to be the 7th guy? McIlrath had a real tough night--he lost several guys trying to look for a big hit. Has to let the hits come to him. I thought Allen looked good last night but the 7th job is probably Falk's. Allen will need games more--he'll get that in the AHL.

Biron was really good last night. Talbot's been good as well.

 

[Ola]

Very good post. ...

Thanks!

Really didn't think the Richards-Nash-Kreider line was all that impressive. Personally Richards is going to have to turn me into a believer again. We all know about last season but even the season before he had difficulty finding chemistry with other players--for instance he and Gaborik who would finish the season over 40 goals. Richards can still put up a decent amount of offense if he comes in more determined but after his two years here I don't look at him as a go to center and won't unless he can start finding chemistry with someone--anyone.

Agreed, they spent alot of time chasing pucks. But I think there are two aspects here that deserves to be pointed out: 1. Rich Nash needs to play top 3 in the world player hockey, like he did for stretches last season, for the line to be great, and you don't do that in pre-season as a vet, and 2. that line's problem, BR and Nash's problem, is lack of puck possession. They aren't center puck-magnets like many of the top guys in the league. If you don't have the puck, its not much to do about it, when you don't have it sometimes 30-40 sec passess buy. You get out of the groove. Etc. And in pre-season, a sloppy pass costs a lot more for BR and Nash than a typical 3rd line. And so forth.

OTOH Brassard and Zucc seem to be more the catalyst type player that Richards use to be. I've been hugely impressed by Brassard since he landed here--good speed, great hands, seeing eye passes on the tape. New York may turn out to be the best thing that ever happens to him. So as for Pouliot--he may be a guy who will play will with those--someone who won't carry the puck up and down the ice but has a lot of talent and can find seams in the defense and finish.

Agreed. Our "2nd line" compliments our 1st well in this regard. And I keep putting the 2nd line part within quotationmarks because when Cally and Step are playing, they will log the 2nd most responsibility after Nash. Not Brass and Zucc. But we will be able to get that offensive punch that you need from a 2nd line from Brass and Zucc for stretches at least.

John Moore looks like a player here to stay--great speed, puck skills, good shot--good in his own end.

I forgot to comment on Moore.

First of all, no doubt Moore is a solid 3rd pairing D and like he is here to stay. When he came here, he was a bit on the outside looking in still as a prospect. He is way past that stage and is a NHL regular now.

As to his speed, shoot and puck skills though. A defensemen is really all about taking the right decision and executing it. Time after time. Shift in and shift out. Moore got a bit of a long way to go here and he is still pretty raw. A poised pass off the board under pressure shows me 10x more than a "end-to-end rush" if you get what I mean. In relation, I do think Moore for example is pretty far behind Strålman.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Good post Ola, not gonna quote it all.

For once, this team is looking to have a bit of depth. When everyone is healthy/signed the top 3 lines you laid out look darn good. It is almost an anti-jinx at this point (because all he has done is make plays) but I hope Brassard keeps it up. If he does that creates the type of center depth you win with. And that lineup does not even include Fast/Lindberg (who look like they could step in, though its still early) or JT Miller. Those 3 developing more in the AHL is not a bad thing at all if thats what happens. It's a luxury.

Asham and Pyatt are guys who are more than capable of being good 4th liners. When the team is healthy both are likely in suits. Night and day depth wise from last year.

 

[NYR Viper]

Nash and Richards should NOT play together. They have no chemistry. Richards thrived playing with grinders in TB and a couple of young speedy wingers in Dallas in Benn and Eriksson. Give him a similar set-up here. Kreider on the left and Zuccarello/Kristo/Fast on the right.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

More good than bad last night, so lets start with that.

Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello...really liked this line. They brought creativity that is sorely lacking.

Fast/Lindberg - you could easily see these guys are quite skilled. I think Fast, for a smaller player, dealt with the physicality of the NHL a bit better. Both will likely need AHL seasoning, but it was a good start for them

...and now for the bad....

Dylan McIlrath. Yikes.

 

[eco's bones]

Thanks!



Agreed, they spent alot of time chasing pucks. But I think there are two aspects here that deserves to be pointed out: 1. Rich Nash needs to play top 3 in the world player hockey, like he did for stretches last season, for the line to be great, and you don't do that in pre-season as a vet, and 2. that line's problem, BR and Nash's problem, is lack of puck possession. They aren't center puck-magnets like many of the top guys in the league. If you don't have the puck, its not much to do about it, when you don't have it sometimes 30-40 sec passess buy. You get out of the groove. Etc. And in pre-season, a sloppy pass costs a lot more for BR and Nash than a typical 3rd line. And so forth.



Agreed. Our "2nd line" compliments our 1st well in this regard. And I keep putting the 2nd line part within quotationmarks because when Cally and Step are playing, they will log the 2nd most responsibility after Nash. Not Brass and Zucc. But we will be able to get that offensive punch that you need from a 2nd line from Brass and Zucc for stretches at least.



I forgot to comment on Moore.

First of all, no doubt Moore is a solid 3rd pairing D and like he is here to stay. When he came here, he was a bit on the outside looking in still as a prospect. He is way past that stage and is a NHL regular now.

As to his speed, shoot and puck skills though. A defensemen is really all about taking the right decision and executing it. Time after time. Shift in and shift out. Moore got a bit of a long way to go here and he is still pretty raw. A poised pass off the board under pressure shows me 10x more than a "end-to-end rush" if you get what I mean. In relation, I do think Moore for example is pretty far behind Strålman.

The thing with Moore--unless he gets moved to the right side--apparently he played there on occasion with Columbus--he's not going to be facing the best players in the league with McD and Staal in front of him in the pecking order--so even with the big team the Rangers have the luxury of spotting him and letting him learn at his own pace.

Back to Richards, Nash, Kreider--just does not seem like a good combination of me and it is about puck possession and chemistry. Richards has really got to make plays here. He'll have to have the puck a lot and be at the top of his game to make it go. Nash or Kreider get the puck and they'll just zoom up the ice with or without their teammates and at this point in time Nash is way more likely to do something with it than Kreider but too often it's almost a one man show when he does. Personally I'd rather put Kreider with linemates who can take advantage of him going to the right spots when he doesn't have the puck. That could be Stepan or Brassard or Zuccarello but to me Richards and Nash aren't going to do that nearly enough.

 

[cwede]

I love the potential of all the kid Forwards, but at this point I'd say send ALL of them to Hartford, even JTM.
Have Gernander roll 3 lines from Kristo, Lindberg, Fast, Miller, Hrivik, Yogan, Bourque, Jean and Nicholls/St.Croix, give em all lots of ice time to sort themselves out. The other guys like Kantor, Wilson, Rowe and Carroll can have 4th line and 3rd PK rolls.

Start the NYR year building 3rd/4th lines with Boyle/Dorsett/Pyatt, Moore/Asham/Powe, Haley/Mashinter.
As Hags, Cally and Step return mix them in and lop off the some low end guys

Obviously Powe and Mashinter are the most likely to go unless they play great early and often.
Maybe Haley takes Asham's job, but Asham's playoff goals did upgrade my feelings about him.

Injuries and performance will sort out the bottom forwards, and open spots for the young guys.

as i see it, the D is set, with Falk as 7th guy, Johnson gets waived to HFD unless injuries keep him around.
John Moore is a lock for the top 6.
Many post-ers here thinks JMoore was a just a throw-in in the Gabi deal,
but i think he was a critical part, and he'll be logging top 4 NHL minutes for years, here or elsewhere, long after Gabi, Dorsett and even Brassard are slowing down

 

[eco's bones]

More good than bad last night, so lets start with that.

Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello...really liked this line. They brought creativity that is sorely lacking.

Fast/Lindberg - you could easily see these guys are quite skilled. I think Fast, for a smaller player, dealt with the physicality of the NHL a bit better. Both will likely need AHL seasoning, but it was a good start for them

...and now for the bad....

Dylan McIlrath. Yikes.

McIlrath missed a pinch and the Flyers got a great scoring chance. Then he mistimed a hit and the Flyers got their first goal. He missed another hit and follows the player all the way to the other side end boards and the team wound up running around for 20 seconds or so before someone cleared it. That shows frustration. Then he made the ill conceived pass behind his own net--which didn't have a lot of zip on it either and wound up with the Flyers tying the game.

He did attempt a few shots on goal one of which Brassard picked up and passed to Pouliot for the gamewinner but overall it was a poor performance. I expect he's going to make the trip out west and play at least one more game but it wouldn't shock me if he's one of the cuts. He was a train wreck but a young player gets out of the gate bad sometimes everything else just compounds--he struggles. The mental part was lacking last night. Anyone can make a bad play or have a bad game. It's the ability to shrug it off and quickly get back to normal that's important. Got to have the confidence you can play first. Didn't see that last night.

 

[NYR Viper]

I was VERY impressed with Michael Kantor's game. Very North South, hard-nosed, lots of energy. I was meh on the signing to begin with but he looks like he can easily have a future as a depth energy guy.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

McIlrath missed a pinch and the Flyers got a great scoring chance. Then he mistimed a hit and the Flyers got their first goal. He missed another hit and follows the player all the way to the other side end boards and the team wound up running around for 20 seconds or so before someone cleared it. That shows frustration. Then he made the ill conceived pass behind his own net--which didn't have a lot of zip on it either and wound up with the Flyers tying the game.

He did attempt a few shots on goal one of which Brassard picked up and passed to Pouliot for the gamewinner but overall it was a poor performance. I expect he's going to make the trip out west and play at least one more game but it wouldn't shock me if he's one of the cuts. He was a train wreck but a young player gets out of the gate bad sometimes everything else just compounds--he struggles. The mental part was lacking last night. Anyone can make a bad play or have a bad game. It's the ability to shrug it off and quickly get back to normal that's important. Got to have the confidence you can play first. Didn't see that last night.

Lets hope it was just one mistake compounding into many.

But I saw a kid that was completely overwhelmed by the speed of the NHL last night. And, as you mentioned, the types of mistakes he made spanned the spectrum of defenseman responsibilities. It was about as bad of a performance as it gets.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lets hope it was just one mistake compounding into many.

But I saw a kid that was completely overwhelmed by the speed of the NHL last night. And, as you mentioned, the types of mistakes he made spanned the spectrum of defenseman responsibilities. It was about as bad of a performance as it gets.

He didn't look good. He looked much better in the AHL last year and he looked much better in training camp 2 years ago. Makes me think it was just a bad game but I don't think anyone can argue he had a poor first showing.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Thanks!



Agreed, they spent alot of time chasing pucks. But I think there are two aspects here that deserves to be pointed out: 1. Rich Nash needs to play top 3 in the world player hockey, like he did for stretches last season, for the line to be great, and you don't do that in pre-season as a vet, and 2. that line's problem, BR and Nash's problem, is lack of puck possession. They aren't center puck-magnets like many of the top guys in the league. If you don't have the puck, its not much to do about it, when you don't have it sometimes 30-40 sec passess buy. You get out of the groove. Etc. And in pre-season, a sloppy pass costs a lot more for BR and Nash than a typical 3rd line. And so forth.



Agreed. Our "2nd line" compliments our 1st well in this regard. And I keep putting the 2nd line part within quotationmarks because when Cally and Step are playing, they will log the 2nd most responsibility after Nash. Not Brass and Zucc. But we will be able to get that offensive punch that you need from a 2nd line from Brass and Zucc for stretches at least.



I forgot to comment on Moore.

First of all, no doubt Moore is a solid 3rd pairing D and like he is here to stay. When he came here, he was a bit on the outside looking in still as a prospect. He is way past that stage and is a NHL regular now.

As to his speed, shoot and puck skills though. A defensemen is really all about taking the right decision and executing it. Time after time. Shift in and shift out. Moore got a bit of a long way to go here and he is still pretty raw. A poised pass off the board under pressure shows me 10x more than a "end-to-end rush" if you get what I mean. In relation, I do think Moore for example is pretty far behind Strålman.

Nash does indeed need a possession player on his line, he and Hagelin were dynamite together last year and the ~30 minutes he spent with Zuccarello were ridiculous, albeit in a small sample.

Compare Nash-Hagelin to Nash-Callahan or Nash-Gaborik and the difference is huge.