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Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread Part 2

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Blue Blooded said:
Just comparing how much they earn in their UFA years of their current contracts. The amount they earn in those years should only reflect their value in those particular years.

Torres is currently the significantly more valuable player.
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Torres currently will most likely be suspended half of the games of every season he plays from here on out.
 
RangerBoy said:
Torres has a big X on him. He can't get away with any hit. The NHL keeps suspending him and he never learns. Dorsett is under and cheaper. Someday the NHL is going to come down hard on Torres but they will let him concuss a few more players.
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This is true and probably brings his paycheck down by $0.5-1M/year.

Similarly with Cooke who Minnesota signed to a steal of a deal. Pittsburgh are going to miss him and Kennedy more than they realize.
 
Blue Blooded said:
"Wicked" shot? He has shot at 6.5% over his career 5v5. Compare to Torres: 11.39%.

I get that he is fun to watch as he really gives his all out there, and he is a good 4th liner. But he is hardly a player you pay $2M as an UFA. At least I wouldn't.

If he didn't take so many penalties and had a cheaper contract I would have no issue with him at all. But if I had to choose between him and Boyle the choice is very easy: Boyle.
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I wasn't implying he's a feared goal scorer, but he has a good shot that is better than most that get his minutes. Him and Boyle are different kinds of players, I wouldn't compare them. And personally I'd give 2 mill a year to Dorsett quicker than Boyle. GM's would hand out 2 mill to Dorsett because bottom 6 players like him are so tough to find on the open market, most have to settle for much less (ex. Rangers lose Prust to big contract, sign far inferior Asham).

Blue Blooded said:
This is true and probably brings his paycheck down by $0.5-1M/year.

Similarly with Cooke who Minnesota signed to a steal of a deal. Pittsburgh are going to miss him and Kennedy more than they realize.
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Without Cooke PIT's penalty kill is almost nothing now. It took a huge hit losing Jordan Staal but now I can't see it being higher than 20th in the league. I look forward to it .
 
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All-in-all it is not that I hate Dorsett or anything. But I'm just not a big fan of the concept of putting a lot of money into players who see 8-10 minutes of ice time per night.

Find bargains like Moore in UFA to fill out your 4th line, it should never be part of the core.

Benn Ferriero was an excellent 4th liner who the Canucks got for $550k, stupid to demote him to Hartford last season and stupid to keep Smashinter over him. C'est la vie.
 
Allen and Syvret both looked better than McIlrath, so it's deserving that they stay for a bit.
 
The Pack camp begins on Friday. Clark said the plan for McIlrath is to play a ton of minutes in the AHL and then reevaluate at Christmas. He was paired with Syvret last night so they will be the top pair for the Pack. The Rangers will need more than 7 D this season.
 
Raspewtin said:
I wasn't implying he's a feared goal scorer, but he has a good shot that is better than most that get his minutes. Him and Boyle are different kinds of players, I wouldn't compare them. And personally I'd give 2 mill a year to Dorsett quicker than Boyle. GM's would hand out 2 mill to Dorsett because bottom 6 players like him are so tough to find on the open market, most have to settle for much less (ex. Rangers lose Prust to big contract, sign far inferior Asham).
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I doesn't matter how much we want it, Dorsett is not as good as Prust. And you don't want to pay Prust $2.5M either.

Powe would be a fantastic 4th liner if he wasn't an offensive black hole. We score no goals with him on the ice and are always hemmed in our own end. But otherwise that is what you want from your 4th line, what we got out of Feds-Boyle-Prust, a line that can go out and at least spend some time in the opposing zone and chip in a goal or two. And PK ability, they gotta be good PK:ers.
 
Blue Blooded said:
All-in-all it is not that I hate Dorsett or anything. But I'm just not a big fan of the concept of putting a lot of money into players who see 8-10 minutes of ice time per night.

Find bargains like Moore in UFA to fill out your 4th line, it should never be part of the core.

Benn Ferriero was an excellent 4th liner who the Canucks got for $550k, stupid to demote him to Hartford last season and stupid to keep Smashinter over him. C'est la vie.
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Tbh if D. Moore played last year, he makes 2 mill on the open market. Value plummeted for taking the year off. Look at Boyd Gordon's contract, has never scored more than 20 pts IIRC, but is making 3 million this year.

Edit: Gordon scored 20+ twice, my mistake.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
You've hit upon my pet peeve when it comes to the word depth and how it gets thrown around.

Are McIlrath and Mashinter really depth? These 2 guys don't look like they'd contribute at the NHL level in any meaningful way right now. How is that depth?
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Mash is. McIlrath will be soon.

Mash came up for a brief stint last season and didn't look out of place. He looked comfortable. Did he contribute much? No, but he was good depth in the sense that he wasn't a negative on the team.

On some teams, Mash would be maybe the 14th or 15th guy on the roster in terms of forwards. But on this Rangers team? He's probably closer to 20 when fully healthy. Outside of the top 12 (with Hags/Cally healthy, and Stepan signed), the Rangers have guys like Fast, Lindberg, Powe, and Haley. All guys who can contribute today at the NHL level, but most likely won't be with the Rangers due to (dun, dun, dun) depth.

Just look at the roster on the Rangers website right now. 16 forwards - all NHL capable. Fast, Lindberg, and Mash aren't even on that list.

That's depth.
 
Raspewtin said:
Tbh if D. Moore played last year, he makes 2 mill on the open market. Value plummeted for taking the year off. Look at Boyd Gordon's contract, has never scored more than 20 pts IIRC, but is making 3 million this year.

Edit: Gordon scored 20+ twice, my mistake.
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Yeah, finding bargains for your 4th line is a good thing, not a bad thing
 
Blue Blooded said:
I doesn't matter how much we want it, Dorsett is not as good as Prust. And you don't want to pay Prust $2.5M either.
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I would definitely debate that. Dorsett is a better skater and a real SOB to play against, he draws the ire of opposing teams more than Prust does (ask Mike Green :laugh:). He's not as level headed as Prust and again can go overboard, but I just see Dorsett as a slightly better overall player.

nils2317 said:
Yeah, finding bargains for your 4th line is a good thing, not a bad thing
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Of course it is, I was just implying really solid players like D. Moore very rarely go for that small amount of money.
 
Fitzy said:
Allen and Syvret both looked better than McIlrath, so it's deserving that they stay for a bit.
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Allen who I knew nothing about until last night was pretty darn good in my opinion. I think he looked better than Falk, Johnson, Syvret and Bickel have so far.
 
silverfish said:
Mash is. McIlrath will be soon.

Mash came up for a brief stint last season and didn't look out of place. He looked comfortable. Did he contribute much? No, but he was good depth in the sense that he wasn't a negative on the team.

On some teams, Mash would be maybe the 14th or 15th guy on the roster in terms of forwards. But on this Rangers team? He's probably closer to 20 when fully healthy. Outside of the top 12 (with Hags/Cally healthy, and Stepan signed), the Rangers have guys like Fast, Lindberg, Powe, and Haley. All guys who can contribute today at the NHL level, but most likely won't be with the Rangers due to (dun, dun, dun) depth.

Just look at the roster on the Rangers website right now. 16 forwards - all NHL capable. Fast, Lindberg, and Mash aren't even on that list.

That's depth.
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You're really jumping the gun here. Theres a fine line between names of prospects and NHL depth.

You've already deemed Fast and Lindberg to be NHL ready, but just victims of a numbers game? Extremely premature.
 
The PP in the first period last night with Fasth as the righty shot showed some creativity than the Rangers PP at any point last season. Tortorella was a PP genius with Hawerchuk, LaFontaine and Mogilny. Not so much without the Hall of Fame players.
 
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay 1m

#NYR. Johan Hedberg released from PTO

Hedberg released without getting a game, smoke and mirrors that he was brought in in the first place?
 
Blue Blooded said:
All-in-all it is not that I hate Dorsett or anything. But I'm just not a big fan of the concept of putting a lot of money into players who see 8-10 minutes of ice time per night.

Find bargains like Moore in UFA to fill out your 4th line, it should never be part of the core.

Benn Ferriero was an excellent 4th liner who the Canucks got for $550k, stupid to demote him to Hartford last season and stupid to keep Smashinter over him. C'est la vie.
Click to expand...

While I agree that Ferriero brings more than Mashinter, I'd stop short of labeling Ferriero as an "excellent" fourth line player. He's serviceable down there. And he's no real loss.
 
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