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Prospect Info: 2013-2014 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part III* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 4/8)

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Bird Law said:
Actually, every bit of it is true.



I don't put much in to actual stats. His first U17 was fantastic. He also had a solid Hlinka last year even with all of his injury issues.



Link to where I compared the Q to the K?



What does that have to do with anything? I am merely saying that it's dubious to think that Buch puts the same numbers up as Duclair. Duclair is putting up special numbers in the Q. I don't think Buch scores 50 like Duclair did.



And I think it's safe to say that Buch is a bit more polished than Duclair is/was at the same age. I don't think that's unfair to Duclair, either.



Sure, but they also don't play the same game.



Except you said Buch is head and shoulders more talented. Which is laughable at best. And it also shows your bias towards Russian prospects (how many times have you been accused of this at this point? ;)).

Skating: Duclair
Shot: Duclair
Stickwork: Buch
Deking: Buch
Physical game: Duclair
Passing: Buch

To say that Buch is "head and shoulders more skilled than [D]uclair" is just flat out incorrect.



Barkov isn't Russian. He's of Russian descent, but he doesn't come with the typical KHL ties of Russians.

Galch is pretty much an American at this point. He, like Barkov, doesn't have the KHL ties / flight risk.
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Buch is a better skater and and his shot is as good as, if not better than, dukes. No advantage there.

Barkov and galch both are Russians. Barkov is a Russian citizen although born in Finland. Don't kid, he's Russian. And galch was born here but parents are both Belarusian. He moved back to Europe and developed his skills in Russia.

Both these guys could go back and play in the k. It's a risk with all Russians and all euros for that matter really.

My point was that Russian talent is there and it's high end. The point has been made over and over that the nhl doesn't have much Russian talent any more. That is untrue. The new wave of Russian talent is real.

I like Russian forwards. That's no secret. And I prefer my dmen Swedish. That's just my preference when I look at young players.

Actually I like guys that can skate and shoot. Forward or dman, doesn't matter.
 
offdacrossbar said:
Buch is a better skater and and his shot is as good as, if not better than, dukes. No advantage there.
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Wrong.

Barkov and galch both are Russians. Barkov is a Russian citizen although born in Finland. Don't kid, he's Russian. And galch was born here but parents are both Belarusian. He moved back to Europe and developed his skills in Russia.
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They both have duel citizenship. Neither identifies as being Russian.

Both these guys could go back and play in the k. It's a risk with all Russians and all euros for that matter really.
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Neither would go to the KHL.

My point was that Russian talent is there and it's high end. The point has been made over and over that the nhl doesn't have much Russian talent any more. That is untrue. The new wave of Russian talent is real.
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Yes and no. I'm not overly impressed with any of them. Barkov is the only one and he's Finnish.

like Russian forwards. That's no secret. And I prefer my dmen Swedish. That's just my preference when I look at young players.
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I like any skilled player. It's why I'm glad we drafted Buch and Duclair. However, it's outright false to say Buch is head and shoulders above Duclair. It's laughable.

A
ctually I like guys that can skate and shoot. Forward or dman, doesn't matter.
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As do I.
 
offdacrossbar said:
Buch is a better skater and and his shot is as good as, if not better than, dukes. No advantage there.

Barkov and galch both are Russians. Barkov is a Russian citizen although born in Finland. Don't kid, he's Russian. And galch was born here but parents are both Belarusian. He moved back to Europe and developed his skills in Russia.

Both these guys could go back and play in the k. It's a risk with all Russians and all euros for that matter really.

My point was that Russian talent is there and it's high end. The point has been made over and over that the nhl doesn't have much Russian talent any more. That is untrue. The new wave of Russian talent is real.

I like Russian forwards. That's no secret. And I prefer my dmen Swedish. That's just my preference when I look at young players.

Actually I like guys that can skate and shoot. Forward or dman, doesn't matter.
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since Galch played for team USA in WJC he can only play for USA right??
 
Can I just say that I am pleased that Jonathan (or birdman or whatever you're calling yourself now) and ODC can actually have this debate? My guess is that (at this point in their development) they're equally good prospects.

One is absolutely dominating his league - against younger players, true. But how much better should he be performing to convince people that he's a legit first line prospect? He's chasing Sidney ****ing Crosby's goal scoring mark in the same league FFS. (Or at least he was until he got hurt.) And the other is putting up incredibly promising numbers for his age against grown men in the 2nd/3rd best league in the world. 'Nuff said.

I think we as Rangers fans should be happy to have both. Hopefully they both continue to progress and we can argue about who's better for the next decade.
 
I love both Buch and Duclair. I'd rank them as even for sure, BRF. I think they are about the same in terms of potential and safety.

If I had a gun to my head I'd take Duclair since he's already over here and is a NA kid. But both of them are amazing prospects and legitimate first round talents. It's so awesome.
 
Bird Law said:
Wrong.



They both have duel citizenship. Neither identifies as being Russian.



Neither would go to the KHL.



Yes and no. I'm not overly impressed with any of them. Barkov is the only one and he's Finnish.



I like any skilled player. It's why I'm glad we drafted Buch and Duclair. However, it's outright false to say Buch is head and shoulders above Duclair. It's laughable.

A

As do I.
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We will agree to disagree. Buch is the more talented player. Not even close. Duclair is making noise by scoring goals like a madman in a fairly weak league against players who are both younger and less talented than the competition buchnevich faces in the k.

To say barkov and galchenyuk would never play in the K is just beyond silly. If kovalchuk can play there, anyone of Russian decent can want to play there. The K isn't going away. It's a real alternative to the NHL for more than just Russians. All euros and North Americans have opportunities there. And how would you know that anyway ?

Both guys you say don't identify themselves as Russian are of Russian decent. I am half Russian and half swede. I identify myself as Russian swede. Barkov is Russian fin and galch is a Belarusian born here. They have Russian blood. Case closed.

How can you not be overly impressed with 5 of the best young forwards in the world ? That's just crazy talk.

Russian or not, they are all highly talented young scorers.
 
Adam Tambellini picks up a primary assist tonight in Calgary's loss to Prince Albert.

Ryan Graves picked the primary assist on Anthony Mantha's hat trick goal, which was also the GWG in a tough game between Val-d'Or and Blainville. VDO has risen through the rankings very fast since Graves came over. Probably just a coincidence, but it's worth pointing out, he's made them a lot more steady. He's also fighting less, which is noteworthy. I'm not sure if it's because of increased responsibilities and need, or it's just not a big part of his game anymore. I don't recall him having a single fight since joining VDO.

I'm still very much in favor of offering a contract to Val-d'Or RHD Randy Gazzola. Some great offensive instincts and size from him. He's putting up over a PPG and is a top catalyst for the most offensively potent team in the Q. He's a 1993 birthday, making him an overager, but this is only his second year in the Q.

Skapski won another game, 30 out of 32 saves. He is now 5th in the Dub in SV%. Great season he is having.
 
offdacrossbar said:
We will agree to disagree. Buch is the more talented player. Not even close. Duclair is making noise by scoring goals like a madman in a fairly weak league against players who are both younger and less talented than the competition buchnevich faces in the k.

To say barkov and galchenyuk would never play in the K is just beyond silly. If kovalchuk can play there, anyone of Russian decent can want to play there. The K isn't going away. It's a real alternative to the NHL for more than just Russians. All euros and North Americans have opportunities there. And how would you know that anyway ?

Both guys you say don't identify themselves as Russian are of Russian decent. I am half Russian and half swede. I identify myself as Russian swede. Barkov is Russian fin and galch is a Belarusian born here. They have Russian blood. Case closed.

How can you not be overly impressed with 5 of the best young forwards in the world ? That's just crazy talk.

Russian or not, they are all highly talented young scorers.
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It's just absurd to think that "it's not even close." Just ridiculous, man. I always like your take on guys, but you're really letting your bias show through here.
 
How good is Duclair physically? Because Buchnevich is no slouch at all, he plays a quite physical game for his age.
 
Raspewtin said:
What do you mean how is he physically? By what standards? Hitting, net front presence, corners work?
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kinda a combination of those, actually :laugh:.

I'fd appreciate even more though, if someone can describe him aspect to aspect.
 
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SoftEuro4thLiner said:
kinda a combination of those, actually :laugh:.
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Hitting, doesn't engage much. He will when it's necessary, but it's not a large part of his game.

He's shown great willingness to drive the net, and pay the price in front of the opposition's goal tender. A lot of his goals are scored from close range to the net, which is why his SH% is ridiculously high.

He's also very willing to dig in corners for pucks, and fight for his space. Though his skating stride and speed are so magnificent, he can usually make his own space.

He's 184 lbs right now I believe, his weight goal should be around 200 lbs. He has a very good frame and has put on a lot of weight since his first Q season.

Overall, he's physical where and when it's necessary. If you expect big hits every game, or a lot of post whistle scrums, you're looking at the wrong guy.
 
Raspewtin said:
Hitting, doesn't engage much. He will when it's necessary, but it's not a large part of his game.

He's shown great willingness to drive the net, and pay the price in front of the opposition's goal tender. A lot of his goals are scored from close range to the net, which is why his SH% is ridiculously high.

He's also very willing to dig in corners for pucks, and fight for his space. Though his skating stride and speed are so magnificent, he can usually make his own space.

He's 184 lbs right now I believe, his weight goal should be around 200 lbs. He has a very good frame and has put on a lot of weight since his first Q season.

Overall, he's physical where and when it's necessary. If you expect big hits every game, or a lot of post whistle scrums, you're looking at the wrong guy.
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Which basically comes down to Duclair has a very good hockey frame and he's filling out in the way you'd like to see. If I remember right two years ago he was 159 lbs. He's very projectable as a 5'11-6'0 200 to 215 lb. player. He has great wheels and excellent hands. He's growing and his game has been growing in parallel.

I think this argument about what leagues Duclair and Buchnevich play in is a little absurd. Buchnevich has an opportunity living in Russian to play in the KHL that doesn't exist for a Quebec native like Duclair. Literally Duclair as an 18 year old can play in the NHL if a team deems him ready and able or he can play in the Q--a college feeder league or College--and that's it. He's obviously not NHL ready--neither is Buchnevich for that matter. Both of them are pretty much playing as close to the highest level of hockey that they can.
 
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eco's bones said:
Which basically comes down to Duclair has a very good hockey frame and he's filling out in the way you'd like to see. If I remember right two years ago he was 159 lbs. He's very projectable as a 5'11-6'0 200 to 215 lb. player. He has great wheels and excellent hands.

I think this argument about what leagues Duclair and Buchnevich play in is a little absurd. Buchnevich has an opportunity living in Russian to play in the KHL that doesn't exist for a Quebec native like Duclair. Literally Duclair as an 18 year old can play in the NHL if a team deems him ready and able or he can play in the Q--a college feeder league or College--and that's it. He's obviously not NHL ready--neither is Buchnevich for that matter. Both of them are pretty much playing as close to the highest level of hockey that they can.
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Correct, that was his weight his first year in the Q. He has a great ability to gain strength without slowing down. If he could get to 210 that would be great, as he's already pretty strong for his size.

Also strongly agree with the bolded.
 
eco's bones said:
Which basically comes down to Duclair has a very good hockey frame and he's filling out in the way you'd like to see. If I remember right two years ago he was 159 lbs. He's very projectable as a 5'11-6'0 200 to 215 lb. player. He has great wheels and excellent hands. He's growing and his game has been growing in parallel.

I think this argument about what leagues Duclair and Buchnevich play in is a little absurd. Buchnevich has an opportunity living in Russian to play in the KHL that doesn't exist for a Quebec native like Duclair. Literally Duclair as an 18 year old can play in the NHL if a team deems him ready and able or he can play in the Q--a college feeder league or College--and that's it. He's obviously not NHL ready--neither is Buchnevich for that matter. Both of them are pretty much playing as close to the highest level of hockey that they can.
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I don't think it's absurd at all. You can't argue that there is an uncertainty in evaluating Duke re. whether he'd be able to perform in the grown men league, even in the A let alone the NHL, just because there is no evidence available one way or another. Hence the uncertainty that is far less with respect to Buch since he's already proving himself in a better league than the A. What makes it more concerning to me, and I haven't seen it stated by anyone yet but I'm sure many think this way as we'll, is the success that Tambillini showed at CHL level after being completely irrelevant by all accounts in college.
 
I don't think Butcher's toughnessness needs to be assessed yet, much less compared to a guy in juniors. I, too, can bulldoze over 17-year-olds, but it doesn't prove that I can be physical against adult hockey players.

The Butcher is in an elite adult league. Physically, he barely began developing. His body isn't that of an adult, it is somewhere between a boy and a man. Naturally, he won't be able to get too physical yet.

Physicality is also a learned trade. A small player can't do it, but The Butcher is 6-2 and will likely be around 200 pounds - more than enough to throw and take a hit.

The skills he needs to learn (physical play, defense, backchecking) are all a matter of coaching and willingness to learn. No reason to think he can't learn this as his body develops.

Meanwhile, the assets that you either have or don't have (height, speed, quick thinking, offensive knack) are all present.

Once again, he is the highest scoring teenager in the KHL's history. That says something.
 
31849-why-dont-we-have-both-gif-meme-IfmC.gif


Why can't we just be happy to have both Duclair and Buch? They're both very good prospects who are producing in their respective leagues. Only when they're both playing in MSG can we compare (although they might both be in the 2015 WJC).
 
Matt Carle Place said:
31849-why-dont-we-have-both-gif-meme-IfmC.gif


Why can't we just be happy to have both Duclair and Buch? They're both very good prospects who are producing in their respective leagues. Only when they're both playing in MSG can we compare (although they might both be in the 2015 WJC).
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I think I'm happy with both of them. I'm just not ranking one way above the other--yet.
 
eco's bones said:
I think I'm happy with both of them. I'm just not ranking one way above the other--yet.
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Ditto on both statements. It is just fun to come to latter conclusion by sometimes being a devil's advocate again some of the more opinionated statements that one is better than the other by a wide margin. Because both prospects mostly exceed expectations the discussion is pretty well-mannered compared to most other topics here. :help:
 
In 09-10,THN Future Watch had Ryan McDonagh rated #67 out of 75 and was 4th on the Rangers list. 3 years later the THN Yearbook had McDonagh in their top 50 NHL players and he was seventh highest rated D in the list.
 
I wonder what McDonagh was supposed to become. He was supposed to be an offensive guy I know, so what's been his one knock until this year in the NHL was actually supposed to be a strength of his.
 
Boo Nieves had a good weekend. 1 goal and 4 assists. If they can hypnotize him into believing Michigan is playing Michigan State every game,he would be leading college hockey in scoring. He plays his best hockey against their biggest rival.

http://www.mgoblue.com/allaccess/?media=439547

Look at the goal Nieves scored last night. Begins at 24 seconds. The hands.

Nieves is having a good finish to his season. Two more regular season games. Michigan hosts Minnesota next weekend. Big 10 tournament is the following weekend. NCAA tournament in 3 weeks.
 
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