Prospect Info: 2013-2014 Rangers Prospects Thread *Part III* (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 4/8)

[Bluenote13]

Yeah, but that's because he sucks. Not because he wilts. He's just a ****** player.

Yeah your probably right. Unspectacular yet again. Oh well, we'll get'em next draft !

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yeah your probably right. Unspectacular yet again. Oh well, we'll get'em next draft !

It's kind of wild how bad he is in the pros. I sort of expected him to be a career AHLer but I didn't think he'd be this bad.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Wait - what? Are we talking about Ryan Bourque on Hartford? He's actually developed into quite a solid AHL player - and I say that as a guy who's been down on him basically since he was drafted.

Mind you, I'm not saying he has an NHL future - I don't think he does - but he's become one of the better players for the Pack over the last several months.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Wait - what? Are we talking about Ryan Bourque on Hartford? He's actually developed into quite a solid AHL player - and I say that as a guy who's been down on him basically since he was drafted.

Mind you, I'm not saying he has an NHL future - I don't think he does - but he's become one of the better players for the Pack over the last several months.

Every time I see him he sucks.

 

[Beacon]

Russian prospects are just more difficult to deal with. I really don't fault NHL teams for passing on them.

They don't want to spend any time in the AHL learning the NA game. And why would they? The can just run back to the KHL for far more money than the AHL. They're basically useless as prospects unless they can come in and be a good NHL player right away. The money is better in the KHL if they're just going to be a NHL 3rd or 4th liner.

It's true boom or bust. If you don't get a Top-6er, you get literally nothing for your pick.

I think The Butcher will want to come to the NHL. If he continues to progress, within a short period of time, he'll be too good for the KHL. He'll likely be a first liner next year, maybe even approach a point per game. At that point, he'll still have another 5 years to go until he's 25 when his prime begins and development ends. I doubt his goal is to become Krutov. More likely, he'll try to become at least Kovalev, maybe Datsyuk (not the style, just mean that he might try to become an NHL star).

Whether he becomes a star or even an NHLer is a question to be answered. But his potential is high enough that he shouldn't give up on the idea of being an NHL star.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Bourque has been great this year. Goes to the net and gets a lot of dirty goals and is relentless on the forecheck.

Buch....his mission is to have a great rest of the season in this Consolation playoffs (which is good for him as more ice time and a chance to refine his skills) and come to Prospect Camp in July and work on adding muscle, strength, diet, etc.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

A number of prospect games on TV this weekend:

Skjei: Minnesota @ OSU, 3/7 at 7:30 on FCSA (replayed at 12:30 and again at 7:30am)
Skjei: Minnesota @ OSU, 3/8 at 6:30 on ESPNNEWS
Nieves: Mich. @ Mich St., 3/8 at 7:30 on FCSA

 

[offdacrossbar]

No. Just no.

They are both pretty evenly skilled. In fact, it's arguable that Buch could put up the points in the Q that Duclair is. If Duclair was Russian and Buch was Canadian, I think you'd be saying the exact opposite you currently are.

all of that is not true. at all.

let me start out by saying anthony duclair is a stud prospect. kid is a flat out scoring machine. numbers dont lie. but his international play has been kinda blah.

the Q vs the K ? thats laughable. seriously? the K is the 2nd best league in the world. the Q ? its the weak sister of canadian major junior and below the ncaa.

pavel buchnevich is playing with and against grown men. hes played as an underager at that. hes not even 19 yet. duclair plays with and against kids.

as a fair measure, buchs numbers in international play against same age players is pretty solid.

wjc18- 7 5/6/11 ppg 1.6
wjc20- 7 2/5/7 ppg 1.0

14 games 7 goals 11 assists 18 total points and 1.3 ppg

both kids are high end offensive scorer prospects.

skill wise, buch is more talented than duclair. they both skate really well. they both are sniper/shoot first players. buchnevich is a more natural player. duclair is a straight ahead speed type guy who relies on his quickness and speed to score goals. buch is more crafy, creative and dangerous. both need to get stronger.

as an aside, the hf top 50 has 5 russians in the top 10. russian players are being drafted. im not buying the "dont draft russian kids" stuff.

galchenyuk
yak
tank
barkov
kuznetsov

 

[Overcast]

Didn't see a post about it around here, but The Hockey News ranked the Rangers' prospect pool as 30th in the league. According to them, our top 10 prospects are:

1. Miller
2. Skjei
3. Fast
4. Allen
5. McIlrath
6. Duclair
7. Kristo
8. Ryan Graves
9. Lindberg
10. Nieves

HockeysFuture has the Rangers' prospect pool ranked at 27th in the league, ahead of Carolina/NJ/Philly.

 

[jniklast]

Didn't see a post about it around here, but The Hockey News ranked the Rangers' prospect pool as 30th in the league. According to them, our top 10 prospects are:

1. Miller
2. Skjei
3. Fast
4. Allen
5. McIlrath
6. Duclair
7. Kristo
8. Ryan Graves
9. Lindberg
10. Nieves

HockeysFuture has the Rangers' prospect pool ranked at 27th in the league, ahead of Carolina/NJ/Philly.

No Buch?

 

[Beacon]

THN has no idea about prospects. I gave up reading their future watch in the 90s. Just awful in how they rank prospects.

This isn't to deny that our farm is rough, but Graves over The Butcher and Nieves over Lindberg?

 

[Overcast]

No Buch?

http://snyrangersblog.com/prospects...-news-future-watch-top-ten-rangers-prospects/

Doesn't look like THN mentioned him although I can't find much else outside of the information from that SNY blog post. HockeysFuture mentions Buch, saying him and Duclair "are among a handful of prospects who possess high potential, but are long-term projects at this point in their careers."

 

[Beacon]

Butcher's advantage over The Duke is 1) extra 4 inches of height, and 2) success against adults.

We don't yet know how The Duke will perform against adults. He may get to the AHL and turn into MSC. Not saying he will, but he might. The Butcher is a proven player in the KHL and will have no problem at least in the AHL, a league inferior to the KHL. Unless he suddenly stops developing as a teenager, he should be an NHLer one day.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

The fact that THN ranks us behind NJ speaks for itself as to whether they should be given an iota of thought.

 

[eco's bones]

Didn't see a post about it around here, but The Hockey News ranked the Rangers' prospect pool as 30th in the league. According to them, our top 10 prospects are:

1. Miller
2. Skjei
3. Fast
4. Allen
5. McIlrath
6. Duclair
7. Kristo
8. Ryan Graves
9. Lindberg
10. Nieves

HockeysFuture has the Rangers' prospect pool ranked at 27th in the league, ahead of Carolina/NJ/Philly.

I think 27th is about right. The Hockey News is now really a source to be taken that seriously anymore. We're certainly above New Jersey to my mind. The Devils only have two worthwhile forward prospects--one of which Matteau is probably not a top 6 forward.

all of that is not true. at all.

let me start out by saying anthony duclair is a stud prospect. kid is a flat out scoring machine. numbers dont lie. but his international play has been kinda blah.

the Q vs the K ? thats laughable. seriously? the K is the 2nd best league in the world. the Q ? its the weak sister of canadian major junior and below the ncaa.

pavel buchnevich is playing with and against grown men. hes played as an underager at that. hes not even 19 yet. duclair plays with and against kids.

as a fair measure, buchs numbers in international play against same age players is pretty solid.

wjc18- 7 5/6/11 ppg 1.6
wjc20- 7 2/5/7 ppg 1.0

14 games 7 goals 11 assists 18 total points and 1.3 ppg

both kids are high end offensive scorer prospects.

skill wise, buch is more talented than duclair. they both skate really well. they both are sniper/shoot first players. buchnevich is a more natural player. duclair is a straight ahead speed type guy who relies on his quickness and speed to score goals. buch is more crafy, creative and dangerous. both need to get stronger.

as an aside, the hf top 50 has 5 russians in the top 10. russian players are being drafted. im not buying the "dont draft russian kids" stuff.

galchenyuk
yak
tank
barkov
kuznetsov

Unless and until Buchnevich proves he can back check okay he's not likely to be playing at the NHL level. He has to fill out as well. I agree that the Q is the worst of the CHL leagues. It has been that way since forever. It's still a very good league. Definitely not on par with the KHL. Buchnevich has been playing with and against men and that is a factor on his behalf. Buchnevich is already a very good player in the KHL. Duclair is an elite player in a lesser league. Hard to say one is really better than the other right now but I'd probably give the edge to Duclair in that there's less to worry about as far as him being available in the near future. The slightly smaller Duclair has got a better frame as well.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think 27th is about right. The Hockey News is now really a source to be taken that seriously anymore. We're certainly above New Jersey to my mind. The Devils only have two worthwhile forward prospects--one of which Matteau is probably not a top 6 forward.



Unless and until Buchnevich proves he can back check okay he's not likely to be playing at the NHL level. He has to fill out as well. I agree that the Q is the worst of the CHL leagues. It has been that way since forever. It's still a very good league. Definitely not on par with the KHL. Buchnevich has been playing with and against men and that is a factor on his behalf. Buchnevich is already a very good player in the KHL. Duclair is an elite player in a lesser league. Hard to say one is really better than the other right now but I'd probably give the edge to Duclair in that there's less to worry about as far as him being available in the near future. The slightly smaller Duclair has got a better frame as well.

5'11 180 duke

6'2 180 buch

size wise theres no advantage other than buch is lankier.

buch has first line nhl goal scorer talent. backchecking ? whats that.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Miller 23 overall, Skjei 74.

 

[Beacon]

Miller 23 overall, Skjei 74.

Then how are we last?

 

[pld459666]

all of that is not true. at all.

let me start out by saying anthony duclair is a stud prospect. kid is a flat out scoring machine. numbers dont lie. but his international play has been kinda blah.

the Q vs the K ? thats laughable. seriously? the K is the 2nd best league in the world. the Q ? its the weak sister of canadian major junior and below the ncaa.

pavel buchnevich is playing with and against grown men. hes played as an underager at that. hes not even 19 yet. duclair plays with and against kids.

as a fair measure, buchs numbers in international play against same age players is pretty solid.

wjc18- 7 5/6/11 ppg 1.6
wjc20- 7 2/5/7 ppg 1.0

14 games 7 goals 11 assists 18 total points and 1.3 ppg

both kids are high end offensive scorer prospects.

skill wise, buch is more talented than duclair. they both skate really well. they both are sniper/shoot first players. buchnevich is a more natural player. duclair is a straight ahead speed type guy who relies on his quickness and speed to score goals. buch is more crafy, creative and dangerous. both need to get stronger.

as an aside, the hf top 50 has 5 russians in the top 10. russian players are being drafted. im not buying the "dont draft russian kids" stuff.

galchenyuk
yak
tank
barkov
kuznetsov

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?7220

 

[pld459666]

Didn't see a post about it around here, but The Hockey News ranked the Rangers' prospect pool as 30th in the league. According to them, our top 10 prospects are:

1. Miller
2. Skjei
3. Fast
4. Allen
5. McIlrath
6. Duclair
7. Kristo
8. Ryan Graves
9. Lindberg
10. Nieves

HockeysFuture has the Rangers' prospect pool ranked at 27th in the league, ahead of Carolina/NJ/Philly.

27th huh?

surprised we were so high

 

[eco's bones]

5'11 180 duke

6'2 180 buch

size wise theres no advantage other than buch is lankier.

buch has first line nhl goal scorer talent. backchecking ? whats that.

Duclair is a bit stockier and Buch probably has a little more reach. They both skate really, really well.

Back checking is one of those little things no one ever, ever wants to talk about.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Then how are we last?

I don't agree with 30 at all.

But if prospects were evenly distributed, 22 teams would have better #1 than Miller. Again, on average, every team should have 2 in the top 60. The Rangers #2 is not only not in the top 60, but an average "#3", if 60-90 is on average where teams' #3s lie.

I get that it doesn't work like that. But that's along the lines of their reasoning I'm sure.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

all of that is not true. at all.

Actually, every bit of it is true.

let me start out by saying anthony duclair is a stud prospect. kid is a flat out scoring machine. numbers dont lie. but his international play has been kinda blah.

I don't put much in to actual stats. His first U17 was fantastic. He also had a solid Hlinka last year even with all of his injury issues.

the Q vs the K ? thats laughable. seriously? the K is the 2nd best league in the world. the Q ? its the weak sister of canadian major junior and below the ncaa.

Link to where I compared the Q to the K?

pavel buchnevich is playing with and against grown men. hes played as an underager at that. hes not even 19 yet. duclair plays with and against kids.

What does that have to do with anything? I am merely saying that it's dubious to think that Buch puts the same numbers up as Duclair. Duclair is putting up special numbers in the Q. I don't think Buch scores 50 like Duclair did.

as a fair measure, buchs numbers in international play against same age players is pretty solid.

wjc18- 7 5/6/11 ppg 1.6
wjc20- 7 2/5/7 ppg 1.0

And I think it's safe to say that Buch is a bit more polished than Duclair is/was at the same age. I don't think that's unfair to Duclair, either.

both kids are high end offensive scorer prospects.

Sure, but they also don't play the same game.

skill wise, buch is more talented than duclair. they both skate really well. they both are sniper/shoot first players. buchnevich is a more natural player. duclair is a straight ahead speed type guy who relies on his quickness and speed to score goals. buch is more crafy, creative and dangerous. both need to get stronger.

Except you said Buch is head and shoulders more talented. Which is laughable at best. And it also shows your bias towards Russian prospects (how many times have you been accused of this at this point? ).

Skating: Duclair
Shot: Duclair
Stickwork: Buch
Deking: Buch
Physical game: Duclair
Passing: Buch

To say that Buch is "head and shoulders more skilled than [D]uclair" is just flat out incorrect.

as an aside, the hf top 50 has 5 russians in the top 10. russian players are being drafted. im not buying the "dont draft russian kids" stuff.

galchenyuk
yak
tank
barkov
kuznetsov

Barkov isn't Russian. He's of Russian descent, but he doesn't come with the typical KHL ties of Russians.

Galch is pretty much an American at this point. He, like Barkov, doesn't have the KHL ties / flight risk.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Rankings aside, from what i've read and seen it looks Miller, Allen, McIlrath, Skjei, Lindberg, and Fast are all sure fire NHLers. Then guys like Kristo, Buch, Duclair, and others who could make it. Sure there's no elite guy but is it crazy to think this prospect pool really isn't all that bad?

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Rankings aside, from what i've read and seen it looks Miller, Allen, McIlrath, Skjei, Lindberg, and Fast are all sure fire NHLers. Then guys like Kristo, Buch, Duclair, and others who could make it. Sure there's no elite guy but is it crazy to think this prospect pool really isn't all that bad?

No. If you compare the progression of our players, we clearly have a better system than plenty of the teams ranked ahead of us. They did not give us enough credit for drafting good players in later rounds. Fast, Lindberg, Buch, and Duclair would be given more credit if they got picked earlier.