Post-Game Talk: 1st place once again, Jets win 5-2

[Hobble]

After watching the highlights, I can confirm that (1) Hellebuyck is a demi-god, (2) Knight played like a demi-turd, and (3) Wheeler was busting his ass and looked great.

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

The guy that owns the Panthers is a large hedge fund manager,(financial services) that he owns,and apparently worth something like $ 20 billion dollars, so I have read, and doesn't like to lose. He had a great finish last year, but because they got knocked out of the playoffs early, he fired the Coach. So, if Maurice has a bad year like this year, he'll be gone in short order, as the owner doesn't seem like a patient man.

Maybe his son will get his own place in Florida after all!

Unless Paul retires in Florida...

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

He doesn't generate much with the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck not enough shots are generated, both him and Saku are similar in that way and ideally no more than 1 of them is in the lineup at the same time and for now Saku gets the edge due to his points.

Gagner generates a lot of chances in the ozone. The Jets odds of getting a 4th line goal are much higher with him on the ice than AJF.

I don't look at the player stats. I just watch the games. Many other posters are saying the same thing as me (that Gagner is the least effective forward in our lineup). I was happy when he signed the cheap contract with us. He looked great on a 4th line role for us over the first handful of games. Then he was promoted into the top 6 and his game fell off a cliff. His play on the lower lines as of late has been less effective. He seems to lose the puck more than he makes successful plays. He blew another glorious chance last night. Gagner is savvy, but undersized and well below NHL speed. AJF is faster than just about everyone in the league and at least can disrupt plays and be a super pest. Gagner just hasn't played well enough the last dozen or more games to be a regular in the lineup. Especially if Ehlers and Appleton were available.

I think you are underestimating Saku's contributions. His game has been trending up lately.
If nothing else AJF helps to kill penalties while Gagner helps to kill plays.
He's in press box most nights if I had any say in it (which of course I don't).

I hope 89 can improve his play going forward.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Far be it for me to question yet another opinion from a real hockey fan, but...

Paul Maurice guided this team once to 114 point finish, second in the entire league, and then took them to the semi-final.

If he was never the right choice, who would have been?

Some one who could have come up with a counter to the neutral zone trap that Vegas humiliated us with in Round 3. If we had a crystal ball or a time machine we at least would have replaced Maurice after the 2018 playoff run. The Jets still had an amazing lineup for the 2018/19 season and totally blew it that year. That team should have contended for the Cup again and improved upon their 2018 success. Instead they withered and underperformed badly. Then our D core got decimated and we are where we are now.

 

[KingBogo]

It's no more baseless than assuming it's all on Maurice when Scheif was a shell of himself last season.
I'm not stating Schief is a bad player or that Mo is a good coach - I'm only suggesting the relationship between the two may have been toxic. I have trouble understanding why a player would give up on the hard work side of hockey under one coach but is willing to give it under anther -
Assuming there was a coach / player problem is not that far a reach IMO.

We're all speculating around here King - I'm a bit surprised that this surprises you to the point where you are calling out one opinion as being baseless when there are a ton of examples out there - what is the subject matter?

I think if you want to speculate on what was happening behind the scenes, you'll come closer to the truth if you take a systems approach rather than look at 1 player. We have seen noticeable changes, among several players this season, that would suggest there was across the board frustration with many becoming disengaged. This year we see renewed engagement and optimism. IMO individual players handled this differently, but the end result was chaos in the room. My take on Scheifele, he is a student of the game and knew what the team was doing was ineffective and not giving them the best chance of winning and over time he started to focus more and more on the parts of the game he enjoyed the most since there was no effective system in place to consistently win games. I didn't see him not trying, but rather doing his own thing in a coaching vacuum.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He doesn't generate much with the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck not enough shots are generated, both him and Saku are similar in that way and ideally no more than 1 of them is in the lineup at the same time and for now Saku gets the edge due to his points.

Gagner generates a lot of chances in the ozone. The Jets odds of getting a 4th line goal are much higher with him on the ice than AJF.

Saku has more 5 on 5 goals than Gag without getting top 6 minutes and pp time. Ajf is a tasmanian devil causing Chaos for the other team.

I don't look at the player stats. I just watch the games. Many other posters are saying the same thing as me (that Gagner is the least effective forward in our lineup). I was happy when he signed the cheap contract with us. He looked great on a 4th line role for us over the first handful of games. Then he was promoted into the top 6 and his game fell off a cliff. His play on the lower lines as of late has been less effective. He seems to lose the puck more than he makes successful plays. He blew another glorious chance last night. Gagner is savvy, but undersized and well below NHL speed. AJF is faster than just about everyone in the league and at least can disrupt plays and be a super pest. Gagner just hasn't played well enough the last dozen or more games to be a regular in the lineup. Especially if Ehlers and Appleton were available.

I think you are underestimating Saku's contributions. His game has been trending up lately.
If nothing else AJF helps to kill penalties while Gagner helps to kill plays.
He's in press box most nights if I had any say in it (which of course I don't).

I hope 89 can improve his play going forward.

this!

 

[LowLefty]

I think if you want to speculate on what was happening behind the scenes, you'll come closer to the truth if you take a systems approach rather than look at 1 player. We have seen noticeable changes, among several players this season, that would suggest there was across the board frustration with many becoming disengaged. This year we see renewed engagement and optimism. IMO individual players handled this differently, but the end result was chaos in the room. My take on Scheifele, he is a student of the game and knew what the team was doing was ineffective and not giving them the best chance of winning and over time he started to focus more and more on the parts of the game he enjoyed the most since there was no effective system in place to consistently win games. I didn't see him not trying, but rather doing his own thing in a coaching vacuum.

Nice response - I'm glad you joined in on the speculation.
That's pretty much what we are doing - no harm in it.

 

[KingBogo]

Nice response - I glad you joined in on the speculation.
That's pretty much what we are doing - no harm in it.

I didn't mean it to come off as calling you out as I tend to agree with most of your thoughts, and I shouldn't have done a quick post on my phone. I just think we miss the mark when we look at one player, rather than look at what was similar across the team. When I do that I see a range of human responses to frustration and disengagement.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

No we don't all agree. Paul was not the best choice right from day 1 of that off season there were better coaches available that summer (cough Trotz) Everyone was sucked in by 10 great games and his gift of the gab after Noel was fired only to drop to .500 the rest of the way.

Now imagine if we had hired someone that would have made them accountable and playing a more rounded game all this time. How about during our best season ?

Pomo was never the right choice.

People forget that the same people that hired PoMo also hired Noel.

Seems they did a better job with Bones.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Nice response - I'm glad you joined in on the speculation.
That's pretty much what we are doing - no harm in it.

Touche!

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

I don't look at the player stats. I just watch the games. Many other posters are saying the same thing as me (that Gagner is the least effective forward in our lineup). I was happy when he signed the cheap contract with us. He looked great on a 4th line role for us over the first handful of games. Then he was promoted into the top 6 and his game fell off a cliff. His play on the lower lines as of late has been less effective. He seems to lose the puck more than he makes successful plays. He blew another glorious chance last night. Gagner is savvy, but undersized and well below NHL speed. AJF is faster than just about everyone in the league and at least can disrupt plays and be a super pest. Gagner just hasn't played well enough the last dozen or more games to be a regular in the lineup. Especially if Ehlers and Appleton were available.

I think you are underestimating Saku's contributions. His game has been trending up lately.
If nothing else AJF helps to kill penalties while Gagner helps to kill plays.
He's in press box most nights if I had any say in it (which of course I don't).

I hope 89 can improve his play going forward.

Saku has been very impressive lately. Trending up as he is still getting used to the NA game. Hasn’t played in nhl for several years.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

This is very hyperbolic.

You can argue a lot about Maurices coaching chops but saying a different coach would have gotten us farther in 18 is a reach.

We lost because Hellebuyck hit a wall and Fleury was otherworldly.

We simply got out goalied and a coach ain't gonna do shit about that

This has already been proven to be categorically wrong by the people in hockey who do micro analytics for a living.



But we sure corsi'd the hell out of Vegas. I wonder if that sounds familiar in Florida this year - hmm.

 

[Potrzebie]

Came looking for the post game thread.

Somehow found the PoMo coaching thread.

 

[jungles]

This has already been proven to be categorically wrong by the people in hockey who do micro analytics for a living.



But we sure corsi'd the hell out of Vegas. I wonder if that sounds familiar in Florida this year - hmm.

He could be describing this year's team, to be honest.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Saku has been very impressive lately. Trending up as he is still getting used to the NA game. Hasn’t played in nhl for several years.

He looks totally comfortable out there. He is a solid third liner. He won’t be a top six forward on a contender, but contenders generally have excellent third lines as well. He is certainly helping out in that regard.

 

[LowLefty]

I didn't mean it to come off as calling you out as I tend to agree with most of your thoughts, and I shouldn't have done a quick post on my phone. I just think we miss the mark when we look at one player, rather than look at what was similar across the team. When I do that I see a range of human responses to frustration and disengagement.

I didn't necessarily want to focus on one player - it came out that way because I feel Scheif is a major influence on this team - when his motor isn't running, we usually struggle. And there were a few comments in the thread about 55 and his obvious distain for Maurice -

Not trying to drag this out but maybe I can expand a bit on my motives:

Right or wrong, when I hear a player having little positive to say about a coach that has also helped him through a significant portion of his career, I get suspicious - the comments come off as almost defensive - and then I ask why.
At the same time, we have a player that obviously didn't give it his all LY - and then the pces start falling in place for me (even though it is purely speculation).
Maybe I didn't give it my all LY - and the coach that is gone makes for an easy mark.

It's just the way my head works and sometimes it translates poorly (cynical) - I can see how this might be over the top and especially for those that are very supportive 55 fans.

In the end, I am very happy with the way 55 is playing - I hope he keeps it up - as noted earlier, the team will need him at this best if they want to be successful TY. Even more so, I'd really like to hear less about Maurice and his impact - he's gone and we have a coach in place that looks to have this teams attention (most nights). I also realize I have no control over the topics around here - not sure why I'd bother spelling out what I don't like - but I will chime in on some of those discussions and approach from another angle.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I’d like to see AJF stay in just for his forechecking. So many pucks stay in the o zone with him on the ice.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Saku is what they wanted Vesa to be

 

[Atoyot]

For Florida, I though Verhaegen was outstanding.

Agreed, him and Eric Staal (very surprisingly) were their best forwards. Verhaeghe is crazy fast.

LOL @ these Scheifele quotes:



Not sure what to think about it, I thought Maurice and Scheifele were boys.

Tweet's unavailable. What was said?

EDIT: Nevermind, it's working now.

 

[Atoyot]

Agreed. I don't think the C should have been stripped in the first place and the way he has handled the situation is proof of that. Most people including most here wouldn't be able to handle a situation like that the way Wheeler has.

Wheeler agreed in the off season that it was best to part ways with the team if possible. Didn't happen but that doesn't matter, you can't keep the C on a guy after that. I'd be fine giving him an A, but I think he looks unburdened without the letter.

 

[Jet]

This has already been proven to be categorically wrong by the people in hockey who do micro analytics for a living.



But we sure corsi'd the hell out of Vegas. I wonder if that sounds familiar in Florida this year - hmm.

Micro analytics are snake oil

Came looking for the post game thread.

Somehow found the PoMo coaching thread.

You can't escape it. If you do, tell me how to as well.

I think I might have to exercise the ignore feature.

I'm hoping now that we've played the Panthers we will finally move on

 

[kanadalainen]

You can't escape it. If you do, tell me how to as well.

I think I might have to exercise the ignore feature.

I'm hoping now that we've played the Panthers we will finally move on

To be fair, Paul Maurice was the Jets' coach for a long, long time. Its likely inevitable (and thus understandable) that he would then be one of the focii of post-game chatter on this board, no?

 

[Jet]

To be fair, Paul Maurice was the Jets' coach for a long, long time. Its likely inevitable (and thus understandable) that he would then be one of the focii of post-game chatter on this board, no?

I understand there'll be some Maurice talk but some posters are obsessed with him and post relentlessly about him.

 

[Bladerunner62]

Wheeler was a monster in the 3rd.

Let's get Harkins back in for AJF next game.

If anyone comes out of the lineup it should be Gagner, not AJF

 

[bumblebeeman]

This has already been proven to be categorically wrong by the people in hockey who do micro analytics for a living.



But we sure corsi'd the hell out of Vegas. I wonder if that sounds familiar in Florida this year - hmm.

This video is cool, but doesn't disagree with the fact that the Jets were outgoalied. Sure they gave up 11 more chances off the rush and 6 more shots from the slot, but those numbers don't lead to a 4-1 series loss by themselves.