Post-Game Talk: 1st place once again, Jets win 5-2

[GaryPoppins]

Hope @JetsFan815 is doing okay after that 3 point PLD performance

 

[surixon]

These points are conflicting.

Yes, many here believe that "he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent point totals".

But he doesn't put up excellent point totals. If you extrapolate his production over a full season, maybe in '20-'21, yes, but in reality, he can't get to a full season.

He's yet to clear 30 goals. He's yet to clear 65 points. His best season, came in the bubble, so I'd definitely take what he was able to do there with a massive grain of salt. And he's not a two-way player, so his raw stats do matter.

He's a lot of smoke & mirrors, and the culprit is him in the playoffs. 4 goals in 31 games; 2 of which came in 1 game on fresh legs. He's a pretender. Big game, big fade. Lots of flash, not as much substance. He's got great speed, but doesn't use it as effectively as he should. Great plus minus, not such a great defensive player. He's a guy who's found a bunch of analytical sweat spots, so he's absolved from criticism.

The Jets will have to take a step (or two) back to integrate him back into the offense. At which point, almost everyone here will be blamming everyone not named Nikolaj Ehlers.

Injuries are part of the game. Also 60 plus points are excellent numbers given his usage.

Last year wasn't a bubble year and he paced over 70 points over an 82 game season.

All the numbers he's posted st ES are indicative of a good first line winger.

No disagreements on the playoffs, he's been incredibly unlnderwhelming there.

 

[Potrzebie]

Man Maurice is back for 1 game and this place gets nasty. Did you guys know the Jets are 16-7-1 and in 1st place in the Central division? Now everyone should be in good moods .

That's not enough. It's not enough that the Jets are playing great and Bowness is doing a great job, the panthers have to suck and Maurice has to be bad

 

[Adam da bomb]

These points are conflicting.

Yes, many here believe that "he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent point totals".

But he doesn't put up excellent point totals. If you extrapolate his production over a full season, maybe in '20-'21, yes, but in reality, he can't get to a full season.

He's yet to clear 30 goals. He's yet to clear 65 points. His best season, came in the bubble, so I'd definitely take what he was able to do there with a massive grain of salt. And he's not a two-way player, so his raw stats do matter.

He's a lot of smoke & mirrors, and the culprit is him in the playoffs. 4 goals in 31 games; 2 of which came in 1 game on fresh legs. He's a pretender. Big game, big fade. Lots of flash, not as much substance. He's got great speed, but doesn't use it as effectively as he should. Great plus minus, not such a great defensive player. He's a guy who's found a bunch of analytical sweat spots, so he's absolved from criticism.

The Jets will have to take a step (or two) back to integrate him back into the offense. At which point, almost everyone here will be blamming everyone not named Nikolaj Ehlers.

How will the Jets offense take a step back? Surely having Ehlers just back and not on same page as his line mates he is better than Easy mount on offence. He is surely better than any of our other options other than Perfetti on the 2nd pp. If we had a guy who produced more offense stepping in, sure.
I do agree everyone else will get blamed for not meeting expectations as he and his line adjust to each other, I’m not sure if that’s overrating or that he will always be a favourite around here. I’m not sure if there is a difference. Even if kfc and Ehlers were, are equal Ehlers will get the love.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

These points are conflicting.

Yes, many here believe that "he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent point totals".

But he doesn't put up excellent point totals. If you extrapolate his production over a full season, maybe in '20-'21, yes, but in reality, he can't get to a full season.

He's yet to clear 30 goals. He's yet to clear 65 points. His best season, came in the bubble, so I'd definitely take what he was able to do there with a massive grain of salt. And he's not a two-way player, so his raw stats do matter.

He's a lot of smoke & mirrors, and the culprit is him in the playoffs. 4 goals in 31 games; 2 of which came in 1 game on fresh legs. He's a pretender. Big game, big fade. Lots of flash, not as much substance. He's got great speed, but doesn't use it as effectively as he should. Great plus minus, not such a great defensive player. He's a guy who's found a bunch of analytical sweat spots, so he's absolved from criticism.

The Jets will have to take a step (or two) back to integrate him back into the offense. At which point, almost everyone here will be blamming everyone not named Nikolaj Ehlers.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but suggesting the Jets are a worse team with Ehlers on the ice is a comically bad take.

His playoff results have been bad overall but he certainly looked better the last two series. We’ll have to see if that part of his game is trending up or staying down.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but suggesting the Jets are a worse team with Ehlers on the ice is a comically bad take.

His playoff results have been bad overall but he certainly looked better the last two series. We’ll have to see if that part of his game is trending up or staying down.

I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying it.

He played ~20 minutes per in his last two playoff rounds, and he had 1 good game; with fresh legs.

If your goal is be a great team come playoff time, I've seen more than enough of Ehlers to know he's not playoff material.

What's really comical, is the amount of excuses people make for this one guy, while nobody else in the Jets organization gets a free pass.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying it.

He played ~20 minutes per in his last two playoff rounds, and he had 1 good game; with fresh legs.

If your goal is be a great team come playoff time, I've seen more than enough of Ehlers to know he's not playoff material.

What's really comical, is the amount of excuses people make for this one guy, while nobody else in the Jets organization gets a free pass.

Your post wasn’t exclusively about the playoffs. You said the Jets would have to take two steps back when Ehlers comes back from injury. This suggests that he can’t play with the team in the regular season. You are in a minuscule minority with that opinion.

 

[DRW204]

This thread went from the Maurice's overall ineptitude as a Jets head coach to Ehlers bashing. Nice.

 

[LowLefty]

This thread went from the Maurice's overall ineptitude as a Jets head coach to Ehlers bashing. Nice.

And he's not even playing . . .

 

[Adam da bomb]

And he's not even playing . . .

So maybe we should complain about he’s always getting hurt and can’t do anything from the press box. After all, being healthy is a very important quality in the nhl.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Injuries are part of the game. Also 60 plus points are excellent numbers given his usage.

Last year wasn't a bubble year and he paced over 70 points over an 82 game season.

All the numbers he's posted st ES are indicative of a good first line winger.

No disagreements on the playoffs, he's been incredibly unlnderwhelming there.

There are so many metrics that suggest he can do that, and my argument is "Great, do it already!" I'm not giving Ehlers credit at pacing for over 70 points last year to his actually being able to do it. If he has a history of reaching/eclipsing that mark, then okay, maybe I would. But he never has. That's my point.

We're in Year 8 with Ehlers!

He doesn't grind through a full season like other players, so he's generally fresher - by comparison - when he does play. I would have to think that most players wear down 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through a full season, especially players on the smaller side; and their averages will take a hit. So, I'd think in his limited time playing, he likely benefits from this; specifically with the analytics.

If Ehlers is the guy driving your top line, and 70 points is considered "excellent" in 2022, unless your team is LOADED with very good/great two way players, you have zero chance of being a great team.

You are in a minuscule minority with that opinion.

Yes.

 

[surixon]

Who exactly was Maurice moving in the last few year's? No one. That's the problem.

To use you as a jumping off point, why does everyone get a bee in their pants over Scheifele especially when Maurice gets I to the discussion?

I get it, Scheifele wasn't playing to his potential or was very engaged and to be fair it was a long span. But why? Could it be any combination of the 100s of things that have been discussion around her for years? The coaching, the systems, accountability? Even Adam pointed out last year that his own dad didn't coach the players well enough to know what they were supposed to be doing out there. I think it was clear the Jets have been a rudderless ship for years. Maurice had to be convinced to stay when he wanted to leave, what an embarrassment of an organization. TNSE was renown for their ability to keep everything in house until last year the players blew their top.

Scheifele is in the prime of his career making (relative) peanuts and this is the best the organization can do for him? A coach who has done sweet F all for years and then he QUITS only to get Dave Fn Lowry? I'd be pissed too. Just toss away another year for Scheifele in his prime making $3m+/year under value in his contract. You wonder why he's having a crisis at the end of the year? They threw away a year they were supposed to be contenders. Wiped their asses with it and threw it away.

I'm not in the least mad wih Scheifele, he was on our side. He looks great this year, he looks happy this year. Wonder why? Are we a better team on paper without Copp and Stastny? Nope. But we have a new coach who seems to be a real leader with real ideas how to play. I'm not saying Maurice was all bad but he had been out of ideas for a long time. Its how it goes. I know the Jets want their 2 decade career coach like Barry Trotz but he cant even do that again. Its just not how it works. Coaches have a shelf life. Painful lesson learned, you almost burned the franchise down because you put the coach above the organization.

Apparently according to another poster, Conner on the SC interview said Maurice went weeks between talking to players. Any wonder things were a giant clusterf*** on the ice with a severe lack of communication. No wonder players didn't know what they were supposed to do.

The more things come out from the players the more I'm left shaking my head on why he was allowed to stay on.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

This thread went from the Maurice's overall ineptitude as a Jets head coach to Ehlers bashing. Nice.

And he's not even playing . . .

So maybe we should complain about he’s always getting hurt and can’t do anything from the press box. After all, being healthy is a very important quality in the nhl.

Yes, my apologies. Let's continue on with the Paul Maurice bashing...

 

[Adam da bomb]

Apparently according to another poster, Conner on the SC interview said Maurice went weeks between talking to players. Any wonder things were a giant clusterf*** on the ice with a severe lack of communication. No wonder players didn't know what they were supposed to do.

The more things come out from the players the more I'm left shaking my head on why he was allowed to stay on.

But the problem with that is, shouldn’t coaching affect everyone? Everyone played under a lousy coach, but, kfc, wheeler, schief all still got their points.

 

[DRW204]

But the problem with that is, shouldn’t coaching affect everyone? Everyone played under a lousy coach, but, kfc, wheeler, schief all still got their points.

They're talented offensive players
All playing near 20 mins, top line/top 6 and pp time. They're gonna score points regardless of who is on the bench.

 

[surixon]

There are so many metrics that suggest he can do that, and my argument is "Great, do it already!" I'm not giving Ehlers credit at pacing for over 70 points last year to his actually being able to do it. If he has a history of reaching/eclipsing that mark, then okay, maybe I would. But he never has. That's my point.

We're in Year 8 with Ehlers!

He doesn't grind through a full season like other players, so he's generally fresher - by comparison - when he does play. I would have to think that most players wear down 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through a full season, especially players on the smaller side. And he is on the smaller side. So, I'd think in his limited time playing, he likely benefits from this; specifically with the analytics.

If Ehlers is the guy driving your top line, and 70 points is considered "excellent" in 2022, unless your team is LOADED with very good/great two way players, you have zero chance of being a great team.


Yes.

He isn't driving the first line nor has he at any point in his career so we don't know what hed produce doing it. What we do know is he produces 60-70 point years while getting second line usage and second unit pp time. So he scores first line point totals despite second line deployment, that is pretty darn good isn't it? His production is excellent given his usage. Some people want to see if he can take a step forward towards ppg or ppg plus player with first line and top pl deployment.

But the problem with that is, shouldn’t coaching affect everyone? Everyone played under a lousy coach, but, kfc, wheeler, schief all still got their points.

Didn't it? Sure they got their points but all were a train wreck in their end and had no clue what to do there.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He isn't driving the first line nor has he at any point in his career so we don't know what hed produce doing it. What we do know is he produces 60-70 point years while getting second line usage and second unit pp time. So he scores first line point totals despite second line deployment, that is pretty darn good isn't it? His production is excellent given his usage. Some people want to see if he can take a step forward towards ppg or ppg plus player with first line and top pl deployment.



Didn't it? Sure they got their points but all were a train wreck in their end and had no clue what to do there.

But since what the conversation is about is Ehlers numbers bringing in defensive zone seems like a unrelated conversation unless we look more at Ehlers whole game.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

How will the Jets offense take a step back? Surely having Ehlers just back and not on same page as his line mates he is better than Easy mount on offence. He is surely better than any of our other options other than Perfetti on the 2nd pp. If we had a guy who produced more offense stepping in, sure.
I do agree everyone else will get blamed for not meeting expectations as he and his line adjust to each other, I’m not sure if that’s overrating or that he will always be a favourite around here. I’m not sure if there is a difference. Even if kfc and Ehlers were, are equal Ehlers will get the love.

While I think Ehlers is certainly a Top 6 forward on the Jets, I wouldn't change a single thing about the Perfetti/Scheifele/Wheeler line. I've been tired of Scheifele and Wheeler's 2-man game over the past several years, but Perfetti gives them a completely different dynamic; and I think that they're deferring to him in a way that I like (that they weren't necessarily doing with Connor or Ehlers). He has a really high hockey I.Q., and they recognize that. It feels - at times - like they're playing with him, as opposed to him playing with them; overlooking their individual production.

So, the easiest thing would be to place him with Connor and Dubois, but I prefer them playing with a grinder; someone who's good at going into the corners. What I would like, is for Ehlers to stop playing wing, and shift to center. He's not built like a winger, nor does he skate like a winger. He skates in curves like center, passes like a center, shoots and thinks like a center, and SHOULD theoretically be a very good 2-way center with his skating ability.

I like PLD at center, but he could easily transition into being a PF. I'd love to know who decided that Ehlers was going to be a winger at the NHL level. Aside from the very odd game, Ehlers and Connor on both wings on the same line, rarely materializes into good hockey.

 

[Adam da bomb]

While I think Ehlers is certainly a Top 6 forward on the Jets, I wouldn't change a single thing about the Perfetti/Scheifele/Wheeler line. I've been tired of Scheifele and Wheeler's 2-man game over the past several years, but Perfetti gives them a completely different dynamic; and I think that they're deferring to him in a way that I like (that they weren't necessarily doing with Connor or Ehlers). He has a really high hockey I.Q., and they recognize that. It feels - at times - like they're playing with him, as opposed to him playing with them; overlooking their individual production.

So, the easiest thing would be to place him with Connor and Dubois, but I prefer them playing with a grinder; someone who's good at going into the corners. What I would like, is for Ehlers to stop playing wing, and shift to center. He's not built like a winger, nor does he skate like a winger. He skates in curves like center, passes like a center, shoots and thinks like a center, and SHOULD theoretically be a very good 2-way center with his skating ability.

I like PLD at center, but he could easily transition into being a PF. I'd love to know who decided that Ehlers was going to be a winger at the NHL level. Aside from the very odd game, Ehlers and Connor on both wings on the same line, rarely materializes into good hockey.

He is pretty small for centre.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Didn't it? Sure they got their points but all were a train wreck in their end and had no clue what to do there.

How would you rate Ehlers defensively?

 

[Adam da bomb]

While I think Ehlers is certainly a Top 6 forward on the Jets, I wouldn't change a single thing about the Perfetti/Scheifele/Wheeler line. I've been tired of Scheifele and Wheeler's 2-man game over the past several years, but Perfetti gives them a completely different dynamic; and I think that they're deferring to him in a way that I like (that they weren't necessarily doing with Connor or Ehlers). He has a really high hockey I.Q., and they recognize that. It feels - at times - like they're playing with him, as opposed to him playing with them; overlooking their individual production.

So, the easiest thing would be to place him with Connor and Dubois, but I prefer them playing with a grinder; someone who's good at going into the corners. What I would like, is for Ehlers to stop playing wing, and shift to center. He's not built like a winger, nor does he skate like a winger. He skates in curves like center, passes like a center, shoots and thinks like a center, and SHOULD theoretically be a very good 2-way center with his skating ability.

I like PLD at center, but he could easily transition into being a PF. I'd love to know who decided that Ehlers was going to be a winger at the NHL level. Aside from the very odd game, Ehlers and Connor on both wings on the same line, rarely materializes into good hockey.

Could be poor gmiing not getting players needed for necessary role and schemes.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

He is pretty small for centre.

I agree, but he's REALLY small for a winger. And he's horrible (IMO) along the boards. Kyle Connor is not a banger in his own right, but he has an uncanny ability of almost ALWAYS coming up with the puck. He's 10/10 for coming up with the puck in a crowd frankly, unscathed.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I agree, but he's REALLY small for a winger. And he's horrible (IMO) along the boards. Kyle Connor is not a banger in his own right, but he has an uncanny ability of almost ALWAYS coming up with the puck. He's 10/10 for coming up with the puck in a crowd frankly, unscathed.

But aren’t wingers generally smaller than centres. This requires research I am too lazy to do.

 

[Stumbledore]

Wow, the way this place careens from praising the Jets' win to dumping on Maurice to dumping on Ehlers is just crazy. In the old days - when we were allowed to talk freely - I would have said you guys sound like a bunch of girls at the wrong time on the month. Now I don't know what excuse to use for you guys.

Hard to believe this thread is called First Place Again for the Jets.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

But aren’t wingers generally smaller than centres. This requires research I am too lazy to do.

I think of his build, being along the lines of a Pelle Eklund (even if he's supposedly 2 inches taller). I've not once thought that Ehlers thinks the game from a wingers perspective. Everything about him screams center.