Post-Game Talk: #16 - 11/09/18 | RANGERS @ red wings | 7:30 - MSG

[will1066]

Extremely frustrated with this Chytil situation.

Why? I see his play visibly improving game by game.

 

[will1066]

I get Quinn wanting to watch his minutes and shelter him to an extent, but man, Zucc being out injured is the perfect opportunity to get him some top 6 minutes, but instead they trot our Spooner who hasn't done a single good thing all season.

I thought Spooner has played better the last two games.

 

[The S5]

But did you see that one goal he scored the other night? Best ranger dman ever

Honestly, let it go.
The kid is going to make some mistakes. He makes plenty of really good plays to make up for it. He will get better.
I suggest you watch some other teams defense before you continually whine about Pionk.

 

[FultonReed]

ah. oh well. there was good and bad, and Hank is still a stud

 

[Edge]

You know.. Edge..As much as I respect you as a poster, and keep in mind that you have from time to time made me look at certain scenarios in a completely different, positive way but not everyone is going to always buy into your everything is all rosy, sunshine stuff 100% of the time philosophy like your word is law.
Again.. Much respect but this team is compete **** and going no where fast.
There's no disputing that so take a deep breath amigo.
I don't like this current management group... Period.
You want to disagree?
Be my guest..

Actually, haven’t I been saying this team is a bottom 5-7 team for about 4 or 5 months now?

Have I not been one of the people pumping the brakes when people are putting the cart before the horse?

I’m not exactly sure what rosy perspective I am offering. If anything, I feel like I am the “the worst is yet to come before it gets better” guy.

What I have been speaking positively about is the young prospects we have and, not by coincidence, those are the guys who seem to be our bright spots more often that not.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Honestly, let it go.
The kid is going to make some mistakes. He makes plenty of really good plays to make up for it. He will get better.
I suggest you watch some other teams defense before you continually whine about Pionk.

Why should i let go bad plays, he has not been nearly good enough. But people thinks hes fine because he makes a few nice plays. And what do you mean watch other teams defenses? Atleast 80 percent of the league (and thats being genrous) and is better then our tire fire of a dgroup

 

[Edge]

Why should i let go bad plays, he has not been nearly good enough. But people thinks hes fine because he makes a few nice plays. And what do you mean watch other teams defenses? Atleast 80 percent of the league (and thats being genrous) and is better then our tire fire of a dgroup

I think the pushback is because a 45 point pace for a rookie defenseman, on a team that can count its 45 point defenseman from the last decade on one hand, is most likely the result of more than a few nice plays.

I think there’s a feeling that the balance is lacking. I don’t think anyone considers Pionk a defensive whiz, but they also grade on curve because of the offense and the fact that the kid has the fewest professional games played of any defenseman on our NHL roster.

We’re talking about a kid who won’t even play his 100th pro game until around Thanksgiving.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I thought Spooner has played better the last two games.

Fair enough, I just think Quinn has to do a better job getting Chytil more ice time. Rotating him in on that wing spot with Spooner to get him some extra shifts seems like a good opportunity to do it with Zucc out.

 

[Alluckks]

Why does Ryan spooner even play. What does he do well? I mean....I don't get it.

He gets ice time so that the GMs that don't watch can just look at his ice time and nonsense crap and give us a 3rd round pick for him in 2 months

 

[Edge]

He gets ice time so that the GMs that don't watch can just look at his ice time and nonsense crap and give us a 3rd round pick for him in 2 months

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in this.

I think we’ve seen all that is Ryan Spooner over the 30+ games he’s played as a Ranger.

The side that makes you wonder why this kid hasn’t broken out yet, the side that makes it painfully clear why that is.

In that sense, he’s been exactly what he was as a Bruin.

 

[NYR]

Actually, haven’t I been saying this team is a bottom 5-7 team for about 4 or 5 months now?

Have I not been one of the people pumping the brakes when people are putting the cart before the horse?

I’m not exactly sure what rosy perspective I am offering. If anything, I feel like I am the “the worst is yet to come before it gets better” guy.

What I have been speaking positively about is the young prospects we have and, not by coincidence, those are the guys who seem to be our bright spots more often that not.

That's all fine and dandy but when you start talking about inmates running the show just because you disagree then it gets kind of childish, no?

Again..I like the young players brought in but the whole process in which they were brought in I have a major problem with.

They had a team that's come inches away from winning it all and could never bring in the right support to supplement that team in order to push them over the top so I do not trust this current management team to finish the job that they say they've going to do.

Hopefully they prove me wrong but I won't hold my breath..

 

[Tob]

I'm completely over signing any defenseman unless they're ELCs. Dan Boyle, Kevin Shattenkirk, Brendan Smith, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi. We let Stralman go, we let Yandle go, and we seem to finally learn something about not giving defensemen bloated long term contracts in time to send off McDonagh who is at worst better than all of our signings combined.

Save us K'Andre

 

[will1066]

Fair enough, I just think Quinn has to do a better job getting Chytil more ice time. Rotating him in on that wing spot with Spooner to get him some extra shifts seems like a good opportunity to do it with Zucc out.

Yeah, I get what you (and others) are saying. He's 19, not 22 or 23. There's time.

 

[Edge]

That's all fine and dandy but when you start talking about inmates running the show just because you disagree then it gets kind of childish, no?

Again..I like the young players brought in but the whole process in which they were brought in I have a major problem with.

They had a team that's come inches away from winning it all and could never bring in the right support to supplement that team in order to push them over the top so I do not trust this current management team to finish the job that they say they've going to do.

Hopefully they prove me wrong but I won't hold my breath..

Yes, when in the span of ten minutes I see the extremes of a conversation that can’t possibly co-exist in an accurate, meaningful way, I do put that in the asylum category. I think tonight’s GDT is a case study and it was being pointed out before it had even happened.

You know what’s truly remarkable? How closely it followed the script. I learned a long time ago one of the things that really gives people the red ass is when their shots are called before they themselves even realize they are going to take them.

Now, considering no names have been mentioned tonight, I can only assume that if someone is fired up about that observation, that it’s more of a self-identification issue.

As for whether the Rangers can pull off their objective, I can’t stay.

I think they’ve achieved good returns on their trades.

I think they’ve found kids who are doing everything you’d hoped they’d do to this point.

I think they’re doing something that has never been done before in this franchise’s history, which makes it hard to draw from any reference point — good or bad.

I think Gorton doesn’t really have enough of a track record behind him to gauge whether he will succeed or fail in his task.

But you’ll also notice that I use the word “think” and not “know” in most of my responses.

Because the reality is that we really don’t know anything right up until it’s pretty obvious. And that time is not now.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

I think the pushback is because a 45 point pace for a rookie defenseman, on a team that can count its 45 point defenseman from the last decade on one hand, is most likely the result of more than a few nice plays.

I think there’s a feeling that the balance is lacking. I don’t think anyone considers Pionk a defensive whiz, but they also grade on curve because of the offense and the fact that the kid has the fewest professional games played of any defenseman on our NHL roster.

We’re talking about a kid who won’t even play his 100th pro game until around Thanksgiving.

Points aren't everything, especially for a dman. What about the other 90% of the game where he is making bad decisions and being overall bad defensively. He has the tools to be a good player but right now he isn't

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Extremely frustrated with this Chytil situation.

I think hes going to be a good player but he honestly hasn't done a lot to earn more ice,if you look at how Namestnicov and DeAngelo have responded after being benched they earned a bigger role. Chytil plain and simply has to earn more minutes. Even Andersson has looked way more engaged since he got here than Chytil . For some reason we all want to make excuses for him I dont know why, but he isnt playing to his abilities. He is young and its early, he will get his minutes as he learns to be a pro. This is a process, personally I would have liked him do what Andersson did to start the year.

 

[The S5]

Why should i let go bad plays, he has not been nearly good enough. But people thinks hes fine because he makes a few nice plays. And what do you mean watch other teams defenses? Atleast 80 percent of the league (and thats being genrous) and is better then our tire fire of a dgroup

You should let it go because he isn't nearly the worst D on the team. He's a rookie playing top pairing and logging 24+ minutes/night. Did you watch Shatty tonight? How about Smith?
Devils have Butcher. He chokes up the puck all the time. Ghost is hailed as a stud in Philly, yet he is totally suspect in the D zone.
Point is that this team is at the start of a rebuild. There is a glaring lack of talent and you guys have decided to direct your misguided ire at a free agent rookie who is exceeding any expectation this team had for him when he was signed.
Get some perspective my man.

 

[Edge]

Points aren't everything, especially for a dman. What about the other 90% of the game where he is making bad decisions and being overall bad defensively. He has the tools to be a good player but right now he isn't

I don’t disagree, points aren’t everything.

But they’re also more than nothing.

I feel like too often the conversation drifts more towards dismissing the points than over-valuing them.

I also think there’s a lot more good and bad in his game than most of his detractors focus on.

There’s a sense that they’re only focused on the negatives. As a result, they view 90% of his game as bad.

When someone has that view, it’s not going to lend itself to much balance. After all, if someone believes a situation is 90 percent bad, it doesn’t leave much wiggle room for negotiation.

I think his “supporters” tend to view it more as a 50/50 proposition — sometimes drifting in the 40/60 or 60/40 range depending on the game.

But I think the overall view on him, as a rookie, is incredibly skewed.

I can’t find any rookie whose been this scrutinized. Usually, we do this in year two or three if the player doesn’t meet the loftier expectations we’ve placed upon them.

It usually doesn’t happen at this point. And because of that, it’s noticeable.

 

[darko]

Why should i let go bad plays, he has not been nearly good enough. But people thinks hes fine because he makes a few nice plays. And what do you mean watch other teams defenses? Atleast 80 percent of the league (and thats being genrous) and is better then our tire fire of a dgroup

Because he's a rookie ffs.

This is why we can't have nice things. Sometimes i regret Ranger's decision to rebuild. Continuous bashing of a rookie player is why we deserve to be stuck in no mans land. If Pionk is making the same mistakes in 2 years time then he deserves to be bashed.

 

[Kovalev27]

It’s very clear this coach has no idea how to find mins for his top prospects. Nothing about him is developing them. He’s even said it himself. It’s now up to gorton to do something about it like send them to Hartford to improve. Lias was perfectly fine down there dominating. They bring him up to play 6 mins on the 4th line? That’s unacceptable.

I have no problem with a coach that doesn’t like to play his fourth liners much. In fact I like it. But if your top prospects are on the 4th line something has to change.

We could easily be rolling Peter Hollland and Beleskey in those spots with those mins and be fine.

 

[NYR]

Yes, when in the span of ten minutes I see the extremes of a conversation that can’t possibly co-exist in an accurate, meaningful way, I do put that in the asylum category. I think tonight’s GDT is a case study and it was being pointed out before it had even happened.

You know what’s truly remarkable? How closely it followed the script. I learned a long time ago one of the things that really gives people the red ass is when their shots are called before they themselves even realize they are going to take them.

Now, considering no names have been mentioned tonight, I can only assume that if someone is fired up about that observation, that it’s more of a self-identification issue.

As for whether the Rangers can pull off their objective, I can’t stay.

I think they’ve achieved good returns on their trades.

I think they’ve found kids who are doing everything you’d hoped they’d do to this point.

I think they’re doing something that has never been done before in this franchise’s history, which makes it hard to draw from any reference point — good or bad.

I think Gorton doesn’t really have enough of a track record behind him to gauge whether he will succeed or fail in his task.

But you’ll also notice that I use the word “think” and not “know” in most of my responses.

Because the reality is that we really don’t know anything right up until it’s pretty obvious. And that time is not now.

Oh so we're looking to play amateur Psychologist here tonight Dad? Lol

Please tell me more about all the people that have become "Apart of the solution"

If we're bringing predictability into the equation, what shots have I ever taken exactly that weren't reality?

Labeling something/someone as self identification/identifying just because it doesn't fit into the general rah rah synopsis doesn't really work for me or anyone else involved.

The rest I can agree with which all leads to nothing but question marks.

You want to add Signing complete garbage like Shattenkirk, Smith, Spooner and (while his play has been better of late) Names for nothing less than ABSURD contracts or should we just quit here??

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Because he's a rookie ffs.

This is why we can't have nice things. Sometimes i regret Ranger's decision to rebuild. Continuous bashing of a rookie player is why we deserve to be stuck in no mans land. If Pionk is making the same mistakes in 2 years time then he deserves to be bashed.

So i cant criticize how a player plays because he's a rookie? That's ridiculous.
I hope I'm wrong about this I really am but he has not been good enough this year outside of the scoresheet and a ridiculously beautiful goal.

 

[Edge]

Because he's a rookie ffs.

This is why we can't have nice things. Sometimes i regret Ranger's decision to rebuild. Continuous bashing of a rookie player is why we deserve to be stuck in no mans land. If Pionk is making the same mistakes in 2 years time then he deserves to be bashed.

I will say that for years I thought the Rangers line about fans struggling with a rebuild was a poor excuse to keep kicking the can down the road.

I don’t totally believe that anymore.

I will admit that I am at least somewhat surprised at some of the reactions around here. I think the negativity in general is probably a little higher than I thought it’d be.

Frankly, I’d say one of things I’ve noticed over the last few years is the Twitter mentality taking over on here. We’re faster to provide reactions, both positive and negative, but it’s more reactionary than ever.

In some ways there is a benefit to the boards having a more real-time feel. But there are some definite drawbacks as well.

I’ve noticed people commenting in the last year that certain posters almost seems like parodies of themselves. In other words, their reactions, though familiar and expected, are almost over the top.

I’ve seen this stated more than once, in different discussions. And I think it started to dawn on me that what people are actually seeing is a less filtered version of people. It’s more raw and extreme because it’s on phones, and handheld devices. There’s no cool down period or processing, it’s train of thought.

Again, that’s not to say this is a completely bad thing. It’s just a different thing.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

You should let it go because he isn't nearly the worst D on the team. He's a rookie playing top pairing and logging 24+ minutes/night. Did you watch Shatty tonight? How about Smith?
Devils have Butcher. He chokes up the puck all the time. Ghost is hailed as a stud in Philly, yet he is totally suspect in the D zone.
Point is that this team is at the start of a rebuild. There is a glaring lack of talent and you guys have decided to direct your misguided ire at a free agent rookie who is exceeding any expectation this team had for him when he was signed.
Get some perspective my man.

I wasn't talking about those players but yes they along with staal have also been bad on the year, but I think most people agree they have not been good. With Pionk it doesn't matter what he does there will always be people defending him tooth and nail. I would love to be wrong in this situation but pionk has just not been good enough

 

[Edge]

Oh so we're looking to play amateur Psychologist here tonight Dad? Lol

Please tell me more about all the people that have become "Apart of the solution"

If we're bringing predictability into the equation, what shots have I ever taken exactly that weren't reality?

Labeling something/someone as self identification/identifying just because it doesn't fit into the general rah rah synopsis doesn't really work for me or anyone else involved.

The rest I can agree with which all leads to nothing but question marks.

You want to add Signing complete garbage like Shattenkirk, Smith, Spooner and (while his play has been better of late) Names for nothing less than ABSURD contracts or should we just quit here??

Eh, if the shoe fits.

I’m still not really sure what rah rah synopsis you’re talking about, or where you’re going with the signing thing.

Should we schedule another session...or three, son?