Post-Game Talk: #16 - 11/09/18 | RANGERS @ red wings | 7:30 - MSG

[Rangerfans]

Rookies getting sheltered minutes while acclimating to NHL speed is not detrimental.
The Rangers played a great 40-minute game and took their foot off the gas in the 3rd while a more-skilled team capitalized on their mistakes.
Momentum shifts happen all the time in hockey. Jimmy Howard played extraordinary.
The Rangers are not a good hockey team. But they’re a fun team to watch.

 

[egelband]

Just to play devil's advocate here: tonight he had four shifts in the first and second period, three in the third.

I would have to check this later, as I'm on the bus right now, but Chytil probably receives regular shifts just like everyone else in the rotation, but his shifts are shorter.

Now, that could be due to a lot of external factors, including Quinn just wanting his line to be out there less. Hard to tell without reviewing tape and going shift by shift.

That’s interesting. And encouraging. I would imagine that if the line got some traction during a shift, they would be out for as long as they applied pressure. So in the event that line keeps the puck moving they’d be out for more time. In which case it’s up to Chytil and Co. Anyhow, no strong opinion here but if he’s getting 11 shifts in a game, he could possibly be out for 11 or 12 mins depending on how things go and how the puck bounces. Anyhow, like you say, just playing the devils advocate.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yes, when in the span of ten minutes I see the extremes of a conversation that can’t possibly co-exist in an accurate, meaningful way, I do put that in the asylum category. I think tonight’s GDT is a case study and it was being pointed out before it had even happened.

You know what’s truly remarkable? How closely it followed the script. I learned a long time ago one of the things that really gives people the red ass is when their shots are called before they themselves even realize they are going to take them.

Now, considering no names have been mentioned tonight, I can only assume that if someone is fired up about that observation, that it’s more of a self-identification issue.

As for whether the Rangers can pull off their objective, I can’t stay.

I think they’ve achieved good returns on their trades.

I think they’ve found kids who are doing everything you’d hoped they’d do to this point.

I think they’re doing something that has never been done before in this franchise’s history, which makes it hard to draw from any reference point — good or bad.

I think Gorton doesn’t really have enough of a track record behind him to gauge whether he will succeed or fail in his task.

But you’ll also notice that I use the word “think” and not “know” in most of my responses.

Because the reality is that we really don’t know anything right up until it’s pretty obvious. And that time is not now.

Those of us who have embraced this approach have been saying this all along. We have always prefaced our position by saying there is no guarantee this will approach will be successful. I'm one of the older posters on this board, and I could easily say I want this team to go for it and get another shot at a Cup. But, as you have mentioned, we are truly in uncharted waters here as Ranger fans. I signed on for this knowing that this is exactly how this approach goes. Development is not linear. I don't know how many times I can say this.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Has anyone ever considered that playing these two guys more may actually have a detriment to their development?

As I’ve stated over and over again, the NHL is not where talent should be developed, the minors is. If they can’t earn minutes in the NHL they should not just be given minutes. That’s not the way it works, nor should it be.

To the first sentence, no that’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard

And I agree the NHL isn’t a development league, so why are they up playing here then? That’s the point. If Quinn doesn’t think they’re ready send them to the league where they’ll play a lot and develop

They’ve wasted Chytil’s slide and probably going to waste Andersson’s so they can sit on the bench for 85% of the game

 

[Mike in Houston]

Tough loss last night.

Smith should spend a game or two up in the Quinn Bin. Hoping Freddy is getting real close to returning.

 

[RangerBoy]

My biggest problem with Quinn is that he is “chasing victories”. Andersson and Chytil barely played last night. He plays Hayes too much. After the game, Quinn said he should have given them more ice time. This is not the first time he has said that after a game where Chytil barely played.

Quinn should not be afraid of the younger players making mistakes when he has veteran players making mistakes all over the ice.

The Rangers are going to play this game until February when Hayes eventually gets traded.

Zuccarello didn’t play last night and still both young players barely played.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We are 16 games into a rebuild, all our young players are playing as expected or better at this point in their career. I have no problem with the coach making the kids earn their time, as I said before I feel Edmonton and Buffalo made a mess of their teams by rushing the kids into spots they werent ready for and making losing an acceptable result as long as the kids got their ice.
Also, it seems as though there are two camps here who either like pionk or DeAngelo, like you are only allowed to appreciate one. They are both playing better than should be expected. To me this rebuild is going perfect, we are in every game, fun to watch and we haven't strayed too far from a good draft pick. I like the direction the gm and coach are going for now, I look at how energized Lias looks since his call up and to me him being in the AHL was obviously a good wake up for him. I honestly wouldnt be surprised if Chytil sat a game once everyone is healthy as a shake up so be prepared, the sky isnt falling it's part of a bigger plan.

 

[egelband]

Tough loss last night.

Smith should spend a game or two up in the Quinn Bin. Hoping Freddy is getting real close to returning.

I generally give a player the benefit of the doubt. Quite often, bad plays can be justified. Good idea but bas luck, bad bounce, bad call, bad execution. Etc. But Smith just made some bad inexcusable plays. I get the frustration. With younger players, we can expect growth and improvement. But Smith is this guy, at this point.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Tough loss last night.

Smith should spend a game or two up in the Quinn Bin. Hoping Freddy is getting real close to returning.

Freddy is ready but I wouldnt expect Smith to sit, NY is going to be looking to move him at some point and being a healthy scratch doesn't look good on a players trade value.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Freddy is ready but I wouldnt expect Smith to sit, NY is going to be looking to move him at some point and being a healthy scratch doesn't look good on a players trade value.

Especially if it doesn't work. But it has helped some players.

Then again Smith isn't doing anything but hurting his trade value by his play of late.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Especially if it doesn't work. But it has helped some players.

Then again Smith isn't doing anything but hurting his trade value by his play of late.

I was of that opinion that sitting him would be good until tsn and sportsnet started talking about Shattenkirk like he was useless, not because they watched him play but because he was a healthy scratch, heard it multiple times and they never mentioned the knee or anything so i wonder if it throws a red flag to gms that might not have been paying close attention to him as well. Theres always the hope that when the scouts visit he has a decent game or two but if hes being scratched on a rebuilding team theres likely no chance they are coming looking. Also, theres the fact he spent half a season in the minors last year, if he hasn't gotten the message by now it's likely he is what he is. That's just my thought though, might not be true.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why call Andersson up and play him 6 ****ing minutes?
Chytil with 9
It's not like the rest of the team was any good the last 2 periods, why not play them?

I'm at a loss to explain it too.

I'mn willing to give the benefit of the doubt though bc they're both rookies playing together for like thge 2nd time this season, or the first?

Give it 4 or 5 games to see if they're given additional ice time and responsibilities.

We have a clear pattern with Quinn. He benches guys or scratches them, works with them in practice, they come back ready for the minutes they're getting. In some cases, guys are playing the best hockey of their careers in ADA, Pionk, Hayes and arguably Kreider/Zib too. Others, like Namest also showed significant improvement.

It's like people here want to blindly assign minutes to rookies with no rhyme or reason. It's an EIGHTY TWO game season. I think people should consider that they'll be getting more than enough minutes, along with practice, over the duration of the season. Chytil's still a teenager! Let him have his 5-8 minutes of ice time in a few games. It's ok, it's fine. Until we see multiple guys regress (we've seen the complete opposite) then I'm fine with whatever ice time Quinn gives. I already trust this guys track record of improving guys performances after working with them off ice.

If one or both get sent down, will I be upset? No. Rookies. 1 teenager. It's ok, it's fine. Calm down people (not directed at you for this post but if you read the GDT...oof).

 

[Vitto79]

Smith basically screwed up and should get benched like others have for a game anyway

I was there and that turned the momentum to the Wings

Definitely should of played Chytil and Andersson more

They need to just make the obvious trades but unfortunately that will go right to the deadline

 

[Vitto79]

Freddy is ready but I wouldnt expect Smith to sit, NY is going to be looking to move him at some point and being a healthy scratch doesn't look good on a players trade value.

They are likely stuck w Smith and Staal till the last year of their contracts

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Respectfully, have seen enough from 42. It's just not going to work out. He... also prone to every unforced error possible. More bad than good. Does not understand his role. Does not understand the role of the position. Ill-advised passes. Ill-advised pinching. Ill-advised rushes. Penalty prone. Penalty prone at the worst of times. Does not understand game flow. Does not pick his spots properly on either end of the ice. His leash is far too long. .

(Looks at Hughes)

Oh Smith is not broken.

He's working as intended.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Pionk is good with the pick on his stick, he can do some good things but he’s not perfect. A lot of people are getting way ahead of themselves about Pionk.

Who?

Almost everyone positive about Pionk recognizes exactly what you just said. The people who are down on him are usually the ones hurling bolts of hyperbole off Mt. Olympus at him.

I do find it funnny seeing a lot of the same people complaining about Shatty being horrible in the D zone but praising Pionk. I think Shatty is better than Pionk in the D zone in just about every way aside from foot speed.

There are roughly 5 million reasons + 10 decades to explain this difference. He ain't nearly as "better" as he should be. Not sure Shatty has actually been better either.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

They are likely stuck w Smith and Staal till the last year of their contracts

It's possible and likely, though I'm optimistic that if we retained salary mike Babcock and his God complex might think he can get Smith back to what he was as he needs d help, especially if Gardiner leaves next year. Retain half the salary and get some sort of shot prospect back maybe? Hopeful thinking lol. Staal, we are stuck with.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Points aren't everything, especially for a dman. What about the other 90% of the game where he is making bad decisions and being overall bad defensively. He has the tools to be a good player but right now he isn't

Turns out it's not 90% and it's not any worse than most rookie dmen put in his situation.

Do I know this for a fact? No. Do you? No. I don't get the hyperbole. Plus you missed his point by a mile.

 

[The S5]

I dont think he should be benched and or scratched. Now that Tony Deangelo is getting regular ice time there really isn't anyone who I believe Pionk is taking ice time away from. And I believe he can be a solid player if he puts it all together, he just hasnt yet.
My problem is there are some People look at the score sheet and see his highlight reel goal and think hes fine, but there are real problems with his game especially defensively. In a year or two he may fixes all these issues and be fine but rn he does quite a few things wrong.
Now playing with a walking pylon in Staal doesnt help, but there should be atleast some blame on the side of Pionk.

And there it is, as suspected. You, along with a few others on here feel its necessary to demonize Pionk, an undrafted free agent making very little salary, because he is getting more playing time than ADA. Of course you will deny it, but the derision aimed at this kid has to come from somewhere other than his play.
Remember, the team is in a rebuild. They are stuck with bad contracts for guys like Staal and Shatty. He is an undrafted FA rookie playing top pair, with a slug for a partner. Yet, some feel it necessary to jump on this board to blame the struggles of the team on this guy. Honestly, give it a rest.

In a year or two, if Pionk hasn't fixed some of his defensive weaknesses, he should be called out and we will know what type of player he is/will be. ADA should be given the same opportunity to prove himself. But, up to this point, the NYR coaching staff has more faith in Pionk. This may change, and if it does, great. It means ADA is developing into a legit top 4 NHL defenseman.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Eh, nothing too crazy. I like Ail.

I'm a mead guy

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why are people hating on Pionk? I dont get it, hes a young dman over performing offensively and learning to play a complete game in his first full season in the NHL. What does anyone expect from him? I'm overly pleased with him so far, DeAngelo too. Those two are the least of our problems on d.

 

[LORDE]

People just seem to have a hard time when this team shows what it is... a team in transition.

Some old goats that are clearly on their way out, along with some journeymen who lack consistency and talent.

A sprinkle of talented but not gonna be much more than what u see today players.

And of course a very young, inexperience team with a rookie coach to boot.

I honestly don’t get the confusion when we see these types of games (I couldnt watch but the result is there and from reading and the highlights that’s what I see)

 

[Larrybiv]

Wake up sheeple!

Quinn is just a puppet for AV.

Don’t you guys see it? Everytime a prospect comes up “Quinn” only gives those players a few minutes to ruin them. After they improve , “Quinn” increases their workload and responsibilites as they get better and show what they are worth.

Not sure whether to like this or not. Not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Okay, i liked it. Hope im not wrong.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

It's year one of a "new TV series" or "Rangers: The Next Generation" (I'm sure at least a few of you if you're not Star Trek fans at minimum know that show struggled in it's first two year and back in the day for the 30+ over crowd a TV series was allowed to struggle for a few years before finding its groove).

You can't have 15 Howden's protect a lead in the last 5 minutes and Shattenkirk was gassed in OT. Plus Howard vs. the Rangers and all.

Everyone chill.

Let's see how this team responds tonight vs. a bipolar Columbus.

Also they almost have four lines. Once Zuc comes back hopefully Lettieri comes out for him and they can play Namestnikov with the kids. I'd rather him than Spooner because, you know, he forechecks and all.

 

[Mac n Gs]

My take on the kids is that they’re clearly improving on a game-to-game basis, despite what the scoreboard says. If these minute issues persist in January/February, I’ll be a lot more concerned. Until then, I’m going to be happy with their continual improvement.