Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Post-Game Talk: #12 - 10/30/18 | RANGERS @ sharks | 10:30 - MSG
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offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
pionk is getting a ton of toi. hes showing hes a horse. so far, hes ok. few blunders but overall pretty good last night. hes got the confidnce of the coach and thats huge. hes slowly evolving into a 2 way guy that can be counted on. reliable and dependable nothing flashy. good stuff.
ADA is different. his strength is his creativity and ability to control the play. hes one of the best passers on the squad. hes got a very high hockey IQ. very developed offensive understanding. plus he is a creator. high risk yes but high reward too. he played solid again on both ends. defensively he gets it done and better than the posters here believe. kid is a player period.
these 2 young d are creating a spot as core players in this rebuild.
henrik is clutch. we so under appreciate what weve had. guilty as charged.
ADA is different. his strength is his creativity and ability to control the play. hes one of the best passers on the squad. hes got a very high hockey IQ. very developed offensive understanding. plus he is a creator. high risk yes but high reward too. he played solid again on both ends. defensively he gets it done and better than the posters here believe. kid is a player period.
these 2 young d are creating a spot as core players in this rebuild.
henrik is clutch. we so under appreciate what weve had. guilty as charged.
Many of you who know me, know I love Pionk, but have also echoed these sentiments about him being in over his head. Those of you who know me also know that I love using my youth sports career as an analogy. This time, I will use my kid. LOL.
My kid plays pretty high-level club soccer. He just recently turned 12, and he's playing U15, so he's quite good, and even then, good beyond his years. A lot of the kids he plays with are 14 and literally a foot and a half taller than him (he's a mite) and who knows how much heavier. Anyway, while he's good, due to his size disadvantage and his age (second-youngest on the team), he's not able to translate his skills onto the field the way we'd all like. However, he starts every game because evidently, at practice, he hustles his ass off through every drill, does everything the coaches ask, always has a positive attitude, encourages and pushes his teammates, etc. So he plays a ton. He gets minutes a "better" player could have because does all these things in practice and he then busts his ass every single minute he's on the pitch. He helps elevate the play of the other kids by his own hard play and positive attitude and hustle.
Obviously, the stakes are exponentially higher in the NHL game, and you don't play guys just because they're good soldiers who work hard (otherwise it would be a lineup of McLeods and AHL guys). But--if Pionk is a guy who busts his ass in practice and does everything the coaches ask and is always doing it "the right way" (this is me speculating, I don't know if he is), then I wouldn't be surprised to see them give him a bigger role, and even give him time ahead of some better players who maybe don't go as hard or carry themselves as well. In a Cup chase, this would be kind of silly; in a situation where we're rebuilding and trying to establish a culture and identity and establish that the kids needs to play a certain way, I'm okay with it. I can live with him playing over his head if the intangible things are benefiting the club in forming an identity and helping to solidify a certain culture.
The flip side to that coin is guys who don't play as hard or don't practice well or have a bad attitude, but are very talented. In a Cup chase, they still need to play, because the goal in this instance is to win. It's not about building a culture, it's about winning a Cup, and you can overlook those things unless they're totally egregious. But when you're rebuilding, and trying to forge that identity, I think it's okay to make examples out of guys that aren't doing it the right way. Is that ADA? No idea, don't really care, not trying to start that whole debate up because it has its own crazy thread. Just saying--at this stage in our organizational development I think it's just as important as icing the best lineup to reward the kids who are leading your culture change, and to sit the kids who are not (or to give more minutes to those who are and less to those who are not).
Anyway, that's it for my youth sports "moral of the story" posting for today.
Just some high level thoughts:
1. Krieder's play is going to earn him an extension
2. Zucc will be a nice trade bait piece
3. ADA deserves to stay in.
4. Pionk was poor, but let's remember how little experience he has and how he simply is not a top pairing defenseman. Unfortunately, as currently constituted, who should be out there against the top players? Regardless, he should sit with McQuaid is back.
4. Howden & Namestnicov were both very visible all night. Great game for both.
5. Speaking of visible, like him or hate him, McLeod was also visible in his ice time.
6. Which is more than I can say for Lettieri. Very disappointed in him. Had a great camp, was given a chance and is blowing it.
1. Krieder's play is going to earn him an extension
2. Zucc will be a nice trade bait piece
3. ADA deserves to stay in.
4. Pionk was poor, but let's remember how little experience he has and how he simply is not a top pairing defenseman. Unfortunately, as currently constituted, who should be out there against the top players? Regardless, he should sit with McQuaid is back.
4. Howden & Namestnicov were both very visible all night. Great game for both.
5. Speaking of visible, like him or hate him, McLeod was also visible in his ice time.
6. Which is more than I can say for Lettieri. Very disappointed in him. Had a great camp, was given a chance and is blowing it.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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Pionk is THE reason that last tying goal is scored. That was one of the weakest board battles I've ever seen, he just basically fell off the puck and lost his man in a split second. something that Pionk struggled with very hard with is these first and 2nd passes out of his own end. I specifically remember that whiff where he just handed it to the sharks at the blue line, and Staal is not the guy that can cover Pionk's mistakes.
Kid is good, but he is in way over his head. he's not a 1st pairing guy, and Quinn needs to stop playing him like he is. Beyond that, the debate should no longer be ADA vs Pionk anymore. McQuaid shouldn't play another game unless he's a swap in. DeAngelo had some amazing breakout passes yesterday, minimal mistakes, that Kreider one timer goal doesn't happen if ADA can't make that first play out of his own end under pressure.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Voted Lundqvist, Howden, Vesey. I know Kreider scored 2 goals, but the Vesey, Howden, Fast line was very good all night.
If Pionk got to that puck a half a step earlier he probably makes the play and we never go to OT, but getting to the puck and having to battle through for full possession as an undersized D-man isn't an area he'll excel. Of course, the same could be said if we won a face-off at the end, or if Fast doesn't make a bad decision with the puck. With Pionk, he's being thrown in situations he's not ready to handle, whether it's because of his strength, size, experience, or skill-set he's never going to have. Considering this is all about the future, I don't have a big problem with it. I think the same should be given to our other young D-men to see how they handle pressure, d-zone one opportunities, etc. If it results in a bad turnover, so be it, but it should be about having our D-menn grow from mistakes, or at the very least seeing if they're capable of handling those situations going forward. We're trying to win, not tank, I understand that, but the players also need to grow.
Also, If Pionk is going to permanently take #1 PP opportunities, I'd like to see him stop rushing the puck up the ice and throwing it back to an open player. All we do from that is carry the puck in and turn it over.
I didn't look at the actual numbers, but from the eye, Staal made a lot of nice, simple plays last night... except where he had 20 hours to shoot and still hit the player who finally got in his lane.
If Pionk got to that puck a half a step earlier he probably makes the play and we never go to OT, but getting to the puck and having to battle through for full possession as an undersized D-man isn't an area he'll excel. Of course, the same could be said if we won a face-off at the end, or if Fast doesn't make a bad decision with the puck. With Pionk, he's being thrown in situations he's not ready to handle, whether it's because of his strength, size, experience, or skill-set he's never going to have. Considering this is all about the future, I don't have a big problem with it. I think the same should be given to our other young D-men to see how they handle pressure, d-zone one opportunities, etc. If it results in a bad turnover, so be it, but it should be about having our D-menn grow from mistakes, or at the very least seeing if they're capable of handling those situations going forward. We're trying to win, not tank, I understand that, but the players also need to grow.
Also, If Pionk is going to permanently take #1 PP opportunities, I'd like to see him stop rushing the puck up the ice and throwing it back to an open player. All we do from that is carry the puck in and turn it over.
I didn't look at the actual numbers, but from the eye, Staal made a lot of nice, simple plays last night... except where he had 20 hours to shoot and still hit the player who finally got in his lane.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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Not true at all. No one believes that Pionk has the offensive talent that ADA has.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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ADA is like the hockey version of a basketball point guard who has vision and can dish.
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will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Pionk will not win the majority of 50/50 puck battles for as long as he's in the NHL. As you said, he is undersized and under-strengthed. He needs to be sheltered.
Last night he was behind the net on his backhand trying to flip the puck while getting mauled from behind. Going strong side was not an option.
All power plays in the league do the hard rush and then back pass, to get the other team standing still at their blue line. We just do it not as well as other teams.
Mike in Houston
Registered User
I think that was by coach's design. Both PP units were doing that verkakte drop pass. And they kept doing it even though it didn't work.
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We really need to see ADA used in the same situations as Pionk. He does make great passes under pressure, but handling the same minutes against other teams top players, and getting defensive zone responsibilities? We won't know until we see him given that opportunity. He could find himself way over his head just like Pionk. I agree about McQuaid sitting.
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will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
With Hank being a given.......how in the hell he does it, is beyond me.
Voted for Kreids (how could you NOT vote him on a 2 goal game.
Though Vesey had a very strong game and Hayes as well.
Voted for Kreids (how could you NOT vote him on a 2 goal game.
Though Vesey had a very strong game and Hayes as well.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Win or lose this game......what was there NOT to like? Pretty sure the season may become less victorious as games get tougher, but as we speak they have mostly been competitive and somewhat enjoyable to watch.
I'll even go as far as MUCH MORE enjoyable to watch than last year with the exception of a missing Grabs and Nasher. Everyone else I don't miss in the least.
I'll even go as far as MUCH MORE enjoyable to watch than last year with the exception of a missing Grabs and Nasher. Everyone else I don't miss in the least.
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
I agree, I've been in the minority but I've always preferred ADA to Pionk.
ADA has been making terrific plays under pressure leading to clean zone exits and he has been solid offensively and composed in the defensive zone.
Pionk shows flashes here and there but man, he just isn't great defensively. I'm not sure why people think he's so much better in the D zone than ADA, they're probably neck and neck with each other, if anything I'd give ADA the slight edge because of his Stralman like ability to make plays under pressure to spring the breakout.
I think part of it is Pionk's deployment, he's eating tough minutes with Staal. They're trying to force him into that role but I don't think it's right for him. He should be a 2nd/3rd pair tweener who gets offensive zone starts and easier matchups.
That board battle leading to the final goal was abhorrent, but it's not like it's an isolate thing. Stuff like that has been happening to Pionk literally every game. Everyone likes to blame Staal, but Staal isn't causing Pionk to be unable to clear the zone, lose every board battle and to whiff on a large share of his passes.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Good Intentions
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Amazing Kreiderman
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Not sure how that would affect us in "any conceivable way".
We're not gonna make PO's but if we did even less likely we would play them for the cup. LMAO.
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