Salary Cap: 11 guys signed next year at $65.5M CAP - $16M left for 12 guys

LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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I was Ceci's biggest hater this off-season but he's surprised me. He's not as bad as I thought. He certainly should be playing less, but he's actually a decent puck-mover. That being said, he's behind Barrie, Holl, Lilijegren on the RHD I want playing for this team next year. Unless Ceci comes for dirt-cheap (I.e 3M or less), I don't see him returning at all.

I also would like to see Keefe play Muzzin-Holl in big-minute situations over Rielly-Ceci. I'd like to see what we have in Justin Holl.

A future Dermott-Holl pair would be really good for us.
 

smitty10

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Aug 6, 2009
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Toronto
Clearly will be a lot of bargain bin depth signings and Marlies call ups.

Reasonable to project Sandin and Liljegren will be on the team. Korshkov potentially as well.

Timashov, Engvall, and Holl should be had for $1 mill or under.

Goat too but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s traded at the same time.

Dermott and Soup should tie up no more than $6 mill.

That leaves $5 mill or so to shore up the back up and the final d spot on the roster.
Well that wasn't too hard.
 

cesareborgia

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Jun 9, 2010
852
772
I don't trust Dubas at all at this point. At a point when we're going to make the biggest RFA signings in the history of the franchise, how can Shanahan appoint such a dumb GM with zero real experience and zero credibility. Beyond shocking.

Imagine we had kept Lou. You think there is any chance Marner makes more than 9.5? Yeah right. Auston likely down at 11 and Nylander at probably 6.5. These kids respected Lou, they feared Lou. Who is going to respect a low IQ, clueless, SJW nincompoop like Dubas? Truly hope we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round just so Dubas can be canned. We can't afford another off-season with him at the helm.
 
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notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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And some people want to get Pietrangelo and his 6.5M, leaving 9.5M for the other 11.
 

Super Mega

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Jun 29, 2013
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Its unfortunate luck to have the leafs cap crunch start on a year 1 of a 2-year cap crunch before the US TV deal is signed.

Happy we have Dubas and not Lou, Lou is a fantastic fit with Trotz and the makeup of NYI roster. It's more about having a consistent viewpoint (buy-in) and construction from the top down.
 
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JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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The exact amount of escrow for each season is not known until the season is over. The players and league agreed to a 50/50 split but every team doesn't spend to the cap so they had to decide on a point to make the cap as putting it exactly on the point that requires every team to spend to the cap to achieve a 50/50 split wouldn't work as the players would never get 50% that way. The point I believe they agreed upon is halfway between the cap and the floor(but I'm not 100% certain on that). Meaning if the average team spent more than that point the players were getting more, and the league less resulting in escrow. The other thing they did was give players what's called a cap escalator. They would choose to leave the cap where it was naturally by not using the escalator, or use it at any percent up to 5%. What that does isn't get the players more money but artificially raise the cap so that free agents that year get more, but in turn everyone has to pay back more in escrow to even it out. They made the choice to hike it up the full 5% year after year after year. Every year in fact until 3 years ago. They didn't seem to care about those escrow payments back then when it was getting any of them artificially overpaid.

As for the actual numbers, as I said they vary year to year. If more teams are spending closer to the cap with more LTIR guys(among other factors I'm forgetting or may not even know about) the escrow payments will likely be higher at the end of the year. If not they'll be lower.



And in fact if so many teams were near the floor, andI've never heard of this happening, but if it was so drastic that the average was below that midpoint line resulting in the league getting more than 50% I would assume escrow payments would go the other way with the players getting escrow payments made to them.



Like I said above, the cap isn't set up in a way such that every team spending to the cap exactly equals a 50/50 split. That's not missing money. When the set the system up they knew many teams would spend below that, perhaps underestimating it at the time when they set up that point(ergo escrow). The 81.5 million cap wasn't set up expecting that every team spending 81.5 million dollars results in a 50/50 split. It was expecting every team to spend on average 73.7575 million dollars and thought the 81.5 million dollar cap would achieve that(the underestimating I was referring to earlier). Maybe it worked well back in 2005 when the cap was set up and has changed since with teams spending more IDK. The cap number would have been ~81.09 but the 0.5% escalator they used bumps it up to 81.5. Had they used the full 5% escalator as they had done for years it would have been ~85.15, Teams would have spent more than they are now. Panarin likely gets a bigger contract, so does all the RFAs by an extra few hundred K probably. And boom, every player in the league has to pay a bunch more back in escrow.




I'm not sure what we're projecting the cap to be at the moment I haven't seen a number, the thing I know is inflation continues to go up every year. The cap will naturally rise. Some years more than other obviously. And the PA doesn't have much of a trick left in it's bad to stop it as they only have the 0.5 decrease in the inflator down to 0% which will only have a very tiny impact, smaller than previous years.

Last year the cap was 79.5%, but that's with the 1.5% inflator they used, with 0 inflator it would have been 78.325. This year without the inflator it would have been as I said about 81.09. It naturally went up about 2.76 million dollars this past year. It actually only went up 2 millipn because the reduction in the inflator from 1.5% to 0.5% hindered it. Assuming the PA drop to 0% next year that will hind it again(by about half of what it did this year), but it will still go up. The amount will be determined by how much growth there is this year.

It's so confusing because it has to be. You can't put set the cap so that it requires every team to spend to the max to get a 50/50 split because that won't happen. They're currently setting it too low because more teams are spending closer to the cap than perhaps they anticipated which means players are getting too much and have to pay it back in escrow. But there's no perfect place to put it to prevent escrow because when they set the cap for a year it's unknown what HRR will be, it also unknown how much each team spends that year. Escrow is inevitable. They could perhaps do with a new system of determining the cap to lower escrow, but that would have to be a gradual change as a lot of teams would suddenly be screwed if the cap dropped by 5 million suddenly.

The players don't like escrow, but it's not going away anytime soon, even with a 0% inflator. It won't go away until they change the system used to determine the cap as more teams are spending closer to the cap than what would be required for to meet the average line for 50/50 revenue split.
Thanks for laying that out there ... the more i read about the more confused I get
 

JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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The players can want that but they agreed to the system when it was implemented and didn't seem to care 5 years ago when it got them paid. They don't have an avenue to change it until the new CBA which isn't this offseason so saying the cap won't go up is just false. The players must not hate it that bad as they actually could have opted out of the CBA to try to change it this offseason but chose not to.

You cannot set the average number to be the cap. By definition the cap is what teams cannot go over, so it would require every team to spend exactly to the cap to be 50/50. Doing that would result in the owners paying a bunch of escrow, how is that any different than what you claim the players are complaining about now? The 50/50 average has to be somewhere between the cap and the floor. Like I said in a previous post it's probably too low now I believe at the midpoint. More teams are above it resulting in escrow. Should the 50/50 point be higher, resulting in a lower cap? Sure, but it's not changing for at least 3 years(and I doubt ever) so I'm not sure why you're arguing about it in this thread proclaiming the cap won't go up because the players won't let it when that's not true.

The players can drop the inflator from 0.5% to 0% this offseason if they choose. That's literally the only thing they can do about it for the next 3 years. The cap will still go up.
Thanks again ... well thought out ... I hear to many things I guess from too many hockey people and d*mn thing just confuses me
 

Ashdown2

Registered User
Aug 19, 2006
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Well that wasn't too hard.

yep i agree .. itll be a little tight and the cap should go up at least 2 mil, so lets say 18 mil left ? 65.5 - 83.5 = 18 mil

according to my calcs ... if sandin and liligren make the team, engvall and timo sign for under 1 mil, lets also say a 13th forward and 7th dman for under 1 mil ... thats 6 spots taken by 5.5 mil (approx)
lets approximate some more, dermott 2.5 mil, soup 2.5 mil, backup goalie 1 mil ... 6 mil total

leaving 6.5 mil to get 2 guys on the RD. Not ideal per say but trade any of kerfoot or jonsson to free up a gigantic 3.5 mil , leaving close to 10 mil to get a couple of RD defenders. easily doable
 
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authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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I don't trust Dubas at all at this point. At a point when we're going to make the biggest RFA signings in the history of the franchise, how can Shanahan appoint such a dumb GM with zero real experience and zero credibility. Beyond shocking.

Imagine we had kept Lou. You think there is any chance Marner makes more than 9.5? Yeah right. Auston likely down at 11 and Nylander at probably 6.5. These kids respected Lou, they feared Lou. Who is going to respect a low IQ, clueless, SJW nincompoop like Dubas? Truly hope we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round just so Dubas can be canned. We can't afford another off-season with him at the helm.

He signed a 40 year old for 6 million a season.
 

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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I don't trust Dubas at all at this point. At a point when we're going to make the biggest RFA signings in the history of the franchise, how can Shanahan appoint such a dumb GM with zero real experience and zero credibility. Beyond shocking.

Imagine we had kept Lou. You think there is any chance Marner makes more than 9.5? Yeah right. Auston likely down at 11 and Nylander at probably 6.5. These kids respected Lou, they feared Lou. Who is going to respect a low IQ, clueless, SJW nincompoop like Dubas? Truly hope we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round just so Dubas can be canned. We can't afford another off-season with him at the helm.

Hate to tell ya but missing the playoffs this year wouldn't lose Dubas his job. I'd put odds of that at less than 1%.

And there's nothing really to suggest Lou would have done better in negotiations. His recent track record isn't great.

Your agenda with this post is very clear. You act like Dubas stole your wife
 

BlueForever75

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
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Its not all doom and gloom. Both Llijegren and Sandin will be in the top 6 D next season at low cost. Players like Johnsson, Kapanen and Kerfoot will be traded as they can easily be replaced by internal cheaper options (Engvall - 3C, Agustino/Korhshov/Timashov/Marchment -W). Ceci and that money saved on those 3 players will bring in another solid D, Goalie backup and one of Muzzin or Barrie.

Dermott will be bridged at a low number.

Korhshov-Matthews-Nylander (Scoring line)
Micheyev-Tavares-Marner (Scoring line)
Hyman-Engvall-Moore (True checking line)
Agustino-Gauthier-Timashov

Reilly-NEW D (Pietrangelo)
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin-Llijegren

Andersen
NEW Goalie
 

Judas Tavares

S2S (Sundin2Sandin)
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Feb 9, 2007
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I don't trust Dubas at all at this point. At a point when we're going to make the biggest RFA signings in the history of the franchise, how can Shanahan appoint such a dumb GM with zero real experience and zero credibility. Beyond shocking.

Imagine we had kept Lou. You think there is any chance Marner makes more than 9.5? Yeah right. Auston likely down at 11 and Nylander at probably 6.5. These kids respected Lou, they feared Lou. Who is going to respect a low IQ, clueless, SJW nincompoop like Dubas? Truly hope we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round just so Dubas can be canned. We can't afford another off-season with him at the helm.
So essentially in your example, Lou saves a little over $3 million on his theoretical deals? And if we are in as much trouble as you say we are, is a little over $3 million really going to do much?
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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I see roster projections with Dermott as a 2nd pair defender, or 1st pair even. Then we'd have Lil and Sandin as bottom pairing guys.

Dermott would be playing against better players and would need to handle more minutes. I hope that Dermott and our other young defenders graduate and perform well. It would certainly be good from a cap perspective.

But its hard to ignore the risk of having three of your top six defenders being rookies.
 
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Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
23,086
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I don't trust Dubas at all at this point. At a point when we're going to make the biggest RFA signings in the history of the franchise, how can Shanahan appoint such a dumb GM with zero real experience and zero credibility. Beyond shocking.

Imagine we had kept Lou. You think there is any chance Marner makes more than 9.5? Yeah right. Auston likely down at 11 and Nylander at probably 6.5. These kids respected Lou, they feared Lou. Who is going to respect a low IQ, clueless, SJW nincompoop like Dubas? Truly hope we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round just so Dubas can be canned. We can't afford another off-season with him at the helm.
Apparently you haven't followed Lou's contract history and also aren't aware he is very much an issue in how the RFA contracts played out?
 

Rielly

Registered User
Jan 3, 2014
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Toronto,Ontario
Why does anyone care about the cap for next year when it's only November? We're trending in the right direction on the ice. We have a team that can compete with anyone in the league. So why worry about the cap situation for next year?

But to play along, I'll just say this. In the off season everyone said we were in cap hell. We didn't have enough to even fill out a roster, let alone make any improvements. Several trades later and we not only filled out our roster, but we improved our roster (at least I believe so) from last year.

Dubas and others get paid a lot of money to make the cap situation work. They will figure it out. Who gets traded is obviously unknown at this time. Wouldn't even surprise me if there were some moves made this season once Keefe has a better idea of what we need. But Dubas will make it work somehow

The defence will not be as good as this seasons. overall its gonna look worse
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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I see roster projections with Dermott as a 2nd pair defender, or 1st pair even. Then we'd have Lil and Sandin as bottom pairing guys.

Dermott would be playing against better players and would need to handle more minutes. I hope that Dermott and our other young defenders graduate and perform well. It would certainly be good from a cap perspective.

But its hard to ignore the risk of having three of your top six defenders being rookies.

Who's the 3rd? Dermott isn't a rookie. New to the top 4 sure, but good players eventually move up the lineup, that's the point.
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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Who's the 3rd? Dermott isn't a rookie. New to the top 4 sure, but good players eventually move up the lineup, that's the point.

Ya, 2 rookies + Dermott. As I said in my post, I hope they graduate and perform well ....... but there is some risk.
 

gordonshumway

Registered User
Sep 18, 2010
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Quotes like this make you think, what if huh?
https://www.tsn.ca/colorado-avalanche-c-nathan-mackinnon-no-regrets-over-6-3-million-aav-1.1408567

Despite owning just the 82nd highest salary in the league and having been passed on his on team's payroll by Mikko Rantanen ($9.25 million AAV) this summer, MacKinnon said he'd be prepared to leave money on the table once again in 2023.“We have guys that we wouldn’t (otherwise) be able to bring in,” MacKinnon said. “On my next deal, I’ll take less again. Because I want to win with this group.”

I can't help but wonder how many of our stars can honestly say the same thing... the whole reason why we're in a cap hell right now with no way to bring a decent backup is because none of them took a discount. The last time I can recall it happening was maybe Connor Brown's contract after his 20-goal season. Dubas has a whole lot of answering to do for mangling this, but greed is what is ruining this team. You can argue Tampa got every single one of their stars to take a bit less, can we say that about our Leafs? I don't think so.
 

PromoterDave

Registered User
Apr 22, 2016
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Toronto
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnson Matthews Nylander
Mikeyev Gauthier Moore
Korshkov Engvall Bracco

Rielly Ceci
Dermott Holl
Sandin Benning

Andersen
Greiss

Extras: Timashov, Liljegren

I wouldn't mind running a lineup similar to this.
 
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Teeder Keon

Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
Mar 11, 2019
17,312
24,186
Deep in the Purple jungles of BC
Are you going to the Leafs game in Vancouver?
No
I actually don’t like going to the games , can’t stand the Canuck fans and Media lol
I like watching on the tube better at home
Our 10 year old daughter is going with her mom as usual as she’s a huge Leaf fan ( Marner and Fred ) fan of course .
Also after the Gardens , no building compares to that greatest of great hockey barns
I used to love going to the games when i lived there ....
Are you going ?
 

CelticDruid

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Oct 23, 2013
7,441
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Penticton , BC
No
I actually don’t like going to the games , can’t stand the Canuck fans and Media lol
I like watching on the tube better at home
Our 10 year old daughter is going with her mom as usual as she’s a huge Leaf fan ( Marner and Fred ) fan of course .
Also after the Gardens , no building compares to that greatest of great hockey barns
I used to love going to the games when i lived there ....
Are you going ?


No. I will stay away for the same kind of reasons that you stated.

Plus I might get mugged if the Leafs win and I might get mugged if the Leafs lose.:thumbu:
 
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