Salary Cap: 11 guys signed next year at $65.5M CAP - $16M left for 12 guys

[HoweHullOrr]

They are going to be up against the cap every year regardless who the GM is

So true. We will make it work because we have to. But, the question to be asked is: Are we getting better, or just cutting the talent level of the middle of our roster because we have to?

I'm hoping the TV deal is as big as some hope, but the 2nd largest U.S. cable provider doesn't even offer the NHL Center Ice package. I would presume that they have determined its not worth it.

It seems like most U.S. cable providers televise 2 NHL games per week unless there is a NHL team in the city. Its not clear that there is much of an appetite or demand for carrying a lot more games and not sure what would drive sudden changes and big increases. Even more modest increases in TV revenue will be helpful though, but they may not be as large as some dream about.

Lastly, its odd to see so many posts about how the cap will not increase as significantly as it has in the past. That idea wasn't very popular around here even just a few months ago. Odd to see how many have had a sudden change in philosophy.

 

[namttebih]

Shouldn't the cap be rising like 10M or some ****?

I came to post this. Just not 10M. Even 3-5 would help.

 

[selltrade]

The 4th line and extra forward and Dman 5,6,7 will consistently change. Also expect 2 of Kap, Kerfoot and AJ to be dealt.

 

[Warden of the North]

I expect we'll acquire more LTIR contracts too

 

[deletethis]

One of the $11M guys really should be turned into some higher end defense talent eventually. The right 25 - 26 minute stud on defense can have a high impact.

 

[deletethis]

I think Dubas has acquired the LTIR bodies because he was already committed to using it anyways so it doesn't matter whether your LTIR is $2M or $20M. Ideally a team carries a small amount of cap space that can accrue more cap room for the trade deadline and I suspect that's what he's going to do in future seasons.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd give Holl an extension right now. 2-3 year deal between 1M to 1.5M.

Really hoping he sticks around.

Imo with Keefe as coach and promise of legit icetime id say a cheap 2-3 year deal is near certainty for him.

 

[Menzinger]

I wouldnt expect a major trade for cap reasons. Maybe one of AJ or Kapanen gets flipped but thats it.

Leafs cap strategy is fairly clear - depth wingers will be making league minimum to 1ish mil same goes for the bottom pairing D guys. I cant see that changing for next season.

The cap will also likely rise which will help

 

[Nylanderthal]

Probably say goodbye to two of Hyman Mango Kap or Kerfoot, with Marlies and cheap ufa signings filling the gaps.

 

[ottomaddox]

Remember when we had Zaitsev and marleau and people thought we'd regress this year? Good times

We did regress. Doesn't anyone remember the 6 game losing streak?

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

It's kind of funny how this team is perpetually in cap trouble without actually achieving much of anything.

Muzzin will leave and I have a hard time seeing anyone of the pending free agents getting huge raises. Mikheyev is spending enough time on the third line and shouldn't get much more than 2 per. Likewise, if Dermott spends most of the season on the bottom pair he won't have a great case for a big payday either. On the other hand, Dubas' track record isn't exactly stellar...

 

[Menzinger]

We did regress. Doesn't anyone remember the 6 game losing streak?

Plenty of hockey left to play.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Did OP factor in the Cap raising a couple million in all his math?

The Cap will get a massive bump in the 2022 offseason. (new US TV deal) Remember all those 3-year bridge deals last off season by other teams?. Guess what year they all expire..... 2021-22. MMT deals are going to be absolute bargains. leafs should be big players in free agency and getting picks to send people to the island.

The Leafs wont be going after any significant free agents. At best they'll retain their own guys. Theres no room to sign anyone outside of the bargain players.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Cap escalator was 0.5% last year, the lowest in history, and the cap still went up 2m.

Not sure where this claim that the cap won't go up at all is coming from. There's nothing to support it.

OK I am no expert in this area for sure. Last season the players got 12% taken from their payroll. and in summer they got roughly 2.5% of the escrow returned so we lost 9.5% of the contract value after true up. But that is much appreciated as the year before it was 15% taken from payroll and virtually nothing back as noted by Toews. So my first question is why did escrow hold back drop 3%? and my second question is why do the net on true up go up around 5.5% from 15% to 9.5%?
Now I get there is LTIR so that pushed up CAP past 50/50 revenue split so there is a need for some kinda system on holdback to deal with that issue in CBA. and maybe there is more of these issues too? But really I don't count that much when I look around league??????????

3rd question why do the players have to always be ones taking the holdback? Pay out everything up front as it f's up the taxes calculations and then ask for money back at true up time.

Now I know most people think heh man these are 1M per guys losing like 100K so whats the big deal here. Well keep in mind most guys play like 3 years on average at league minimum. So this is money lost forever.

So lets go back to overall CAP of 81.5M? So after last years true ups the players got 73.7575M AAV. add to owners got 73.7575M AVV so total HRR was $147.515M per team or 4,572,965,000 for league.

Again where did $7.7425M in AAV per team go??????????????????????????????????? all LTIR?????????????????????????????????

Now we are projecting a CAP of 83-84.5M depending on the math right? and whose numbers you believe right?

Now union is saying we got to limit CAP escalator to ZERO get holdback down from 12% to 9%. and get true up money down from 9.5% to 6%.

My point is the while d*mn thing is way to confusing???????? Too complicated a system where the players are taking the hit. and Bettman is making people think the HRR, thru the CAP, is much better than it really is. A grand marketing fascade I think given his history. And this is why players do not trust the owners who have a long history of screwing us?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The players don't just decide the escrow number. There are other things that impact escrow other than the players election of the cap escalator. Like LTIR for instance, it allows teams to spend more which puts more in the players pocket which would increase escrow to get us back to a 50/50 split. So it's pretty much going to be impossible to get down to 0 escrow.

The thing that the players choose is what % of cap escalator to use. Up to a maximum of 5%. That artificially inflates the cap and the fix to that is a higher escrow which as you say the players don't like. Up until 3 years ago they chose the maximum of 5% every single year. They then decided to go to 1.5% for 2 years, and this offseason chose to only do 0.5%. What that means is the players don't have much choice left that has a negative side affect on the cap. They can go down to 0% escalator if they want but that's still less of a reduction than this past year. The point being the cap 3 years ago was 73. The players then chose to do 3.5% less on their cap escalator, yet the cap still went up 2 million to 75. This past offseason the cap jumped from 79.5 to 81.5 despite the players choosing to 1% less of an escalator(1.5% to 0.5%). The players have another 0.5% down to go but that's not much. After that any natural inflation the cap has would go unimpeded by the players choice of escalator because they wouldn't have any further down options to choose. The last time they didn't change the inflator the cap went up 4.5 million. They've only got 0.5% left to change.

Escrow isn't the problem with the NHL's salary cap, the players' lack of understanding is the real issue - TheHockeyNews

OK I am no expert in this area for sure. Last season the players got 12% taken from their payroll. and in summer they got roughly 2.5% of the escrow returned so we lost 9.5% of the contract value after true up. But that is much appreciated as the year before it was 15% taken from payroll and virtually nothing back as noted by Toews. So my first question is why did escrow hold back drop 3%? and my second question is why do the net on true up go up around 5.5% from 15% to 9.5%?
Now I get there is LTIR so that pushed up CAP past 50/50 revenue split so there is a need for some kinda system on holdback to deal with that issue in CBA. and maybe there is more of these issues too? But really I don't count that much when I look around league??????????

3rd question why do the players have to always be ones taking the holdback? Pay out everything up front as it f's up the taxes calculations and then ask for money back at true up time.

Now I know most people think heh man these are 1M per guys losing like 100K so whats the big deal here. Well keep in mind most guys play like 3 years on average at league minimum. So this is money lost forever.

So lets go back to overall CAP of 81.5M? So after last years true ups the players got 73.7575M AAV. add to owners got 73.7575M AVV so total HRR was $147.515M per team or 4,572,965,000 for league.

Again where did $7.7425M in AAV per team go??????????????????????????????????? all LTIR?????????????????????????????????

Now we are projecting a CAP of 83-84.5M depending on the math right? and whose numbers you believe right?

Now union is saying we got to limit CAP escalator to ZERO get holdback down from 12% to 9%. and get true up money down from 9.5% to 6%.

My point is the while d*mn thing is way to confusing???????? Too complicated a system where the players are taking the hit. and Bettman is making people think the HRR, thru the CAP, is much better than it really is. A grand marketing fascade I think given his history. And this is why players do not trust the owners who have a long history of screwing us?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Now I get there is LTIR so that pushed up CAP past 50/50 revenue split so there is a need for some kinda system on holdback to deal with that issue in CBA. and maybe there is more of these issues too? But really I don't count that much when I look around league??????????

When teams spend cumulatively over the midpoint of the cap and have LTIR that doesn't count against the cap, it pushes what players are receiving over the agreed upon 50/50 split, so that is evened out in the form of escrow.

3rd question why do the players have to always be ones taking the holdback? Pay out everything up front as it f's up the taxes calculations and then ask for money back at true up time.

Lol, this would be a complete mess and is way way way more complicated.

Now I know most people think heh man these are 1M per guys losing like 100K so whats the big deal here. Well keep in mind most guys play like 3 years on average at league minimum. So this is money lost forever.

There was full knowledge of this when almost all of these guys signed their contracts, so it's factored into the amount they got. These guys use the escalator to inflate the cap with full knowledge of what that means, get their inflated payday that is higher because of the inflated cap, and then complain that the inflated cap is costing them some of the extra money that they gained by raising the cap, so they shouldn't raise the cap for the players that come after them. It's insane and selfish.

Also, I don't think there is truth to the claim that most players play 3 years at league minimum. But even if they did, those 3 years at league minimum alone, after taxes, could provide a better life than the majority of people in this world and even developed countries have, just off interest and safe investments alone.

Now union is saying we got to limit CAP escalator to ZERO get holdback down from 12% to 9%. and get true up money down from 9.5% to 6%.

You seem to think that a cap escalator of 0% means that the cap doesn't rise. This is not true.

Too complicated a system where the players are taking the hit

Players are not taking a hit. They are getting the agreed upon amount. Individual players are having amounts taken out of their paycheck because their base paycheck is higher than it should be because of player-chosen cap escalators that directly led to higher escrow.

 

[Faltorvo]

OK I am no expert in this area for sure. Last season the players got 12% taken from their payroll. and in summer they got roughly 2.5% of the escrow returned so we lost 9.5% of the contract value after true up. But that is much appreciated as the year before it was 15% taken from payroll and virtually nothing back as noted by Toews. So my first question is why did escrow hold back drop 3%? and my second question is why do the net on true up go up around 5.5% from 15% to 9.5%?
Now I get there is LTIR so that pushed up CAP past 50/50 revenue split so there is a need for some kinda system on holdback to deal with that issue in CBA. and maybe there is more of these issues too? But really I don't count that much when I look around league??????????

3rd question why do the players have to always be ones taking the holdback? Pay out everything up front as it f's up the taxes calculations and then ask for money back at true up time.

Now I know most people think heh man these are 1M per guys losing like 100K so whats the big deal here. Well keep in mind most guys play like 3 years on average at league minimum. So this is money lost forever.

So lets go back to overall CAP of 81.5M? So after last years true ups the players got 73.7575M AAV. add to owners got 73.7575M AVV so total HRR was $147.515M per team or 4,572,965,000 for league.

Again where did $7.7425M in AAV per team go??????????????????????????????????? all LTIR?????????????????????????????????

Now we are projecting a CAP of 83-84.5M depending on the math right? and whose numbers you believe right?

Now union is saying we got to limit CAP escalator to ZERO get holdback down from 12% to 9%. and get true up money down from 9.5% to 6%.

My point is the while d*mn thing is way to confusing???????? Too complicated a system where the players are taking the hit. and Bettman is making people think the HRR, thru the CAP, is much better than it really is. A grand marketing fascade I think given his history. And this is why players do not trust the owners who have a long history of screwing us?

if you pay the players and then ask for the claw back are you not asking them for money that has already been taxed?

if you don't give them the money then it's not taxed till the true up

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When teams spend cumulatively over the midpoint of the cap and have LTIR that doesn't count against the cap, it pushes what players are receiving over the agreed upon 50/50 split, so that is evened out in the form of escrow.


Lol, this would be a complete mess and is way way way more complicated.


There was full knowledge of this when almost all of these guys signed their contracts, so it's factored into the amount they got. These guys use the escalator to inflate the cap with full knowledge of what that means, get their inflated payday that is higher because of the inflated cap, and then complain that the inflated cap is costing them some of the extra money that they gained by raising the cap, so they shouldn't raise the cap for the players that come after them. It's insane and selfish.

Also, I don't think there is truth to the claim that most players play 3 years at league minimum. But even if they did, those 3 years at league minimum alone, after taxes, could provide a better life than the majority of people in this world and even developed countries have, just off interest and safe investments alone.


You seem to think that a cap escalator of 0% means that the cap doesn't rise. This is not true.


Players are not taking a hit. They are getting the agreed upon amount. Individual players are having amounts taken out of their paycheck because their base paycheck is higher than it should be because of player-chosen cap escalators that directly led to higher escrow.

You made my entire point. The players want ZERO increase in CAP so we can get to point where there is NO escrow holdback. and we don't want the 9.5% taken away after true up. We want that number to be ZERO percent. So the TRUTH comes out the NHL does not make the true 81M per team HRR when it sets the CAP. It is really only $73.7575M. Why keep the charade going on???????????????????????????????? My guess it is marketing to the masses to make it seem like league is doing better than it really is.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

if you pay the players and then ask for the claw back are you not asking them for money that has already been taxed?

if you don't give them the money then it's not taxed till the true up

Not true ... the CRA money is due in April ... the NHL true-up money is paid lump sum in late July

 

[Faltorvo]

Not true ... the CRA money is due in April ... the NHL true-up money is paid lump sum in late July

players get paid every 2 weeks from my understanding

if you are not holding back the escrow, then they will be taxed on that money first

and then they will be asked to pay xxx to the league

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not true ... the CRA money is due in April ... the NHL true-up money is paid lump sum in late July

The players are taking it up the you know what from league and then from CRA. Corporations can defer income much much easier. Individuals have to hire a top end lawyer/accountant who really knows his stuff and costs thousands per hour. Only the Tavares can afford this tax planning stuff. Ask GOAT if he can?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

players get paid every 2 weeks from my understanding

if you are not holding back the escrow, then they will be taxed on that money first

and then they will be asked to pay xxx to the league

Guys get paid every 2 weeks yes. Taxes are withheld by Leafs and sent to CRA and escrow of 12% is also withheld and sent to league office. The players then have to wait to get money back from CRA in April and league in July. But players have to file based on T4 received.

 

[mcleex]

We can and we will have a shit backup goalie

Thanks Dubass

 

[ShaneFalco]

The Leafs wont be going after any significant free agents. At best they'll retain their own guys. Theres no room to sign anyone outside of the bargain players.

That’s what people said before the off-season last year

 

[Dekes For Days]

You made my entire point. The players want ZERO increase in CAP so we can get to point where there is NO escrow holdback.

They don't have any control over that beyond the escalator. They agreed to the 50/50 split. They agreed to how this all works, and more importantly, the same people complaining about it have already used it to benefit themselves, and are now complaining about the known consequences of their decisions.

So the TRUTH comes out the NHL does not make the true 81M per team HRR when it sets the CAP. It is really only $73.7575M. Why keep the charade going on?

It's not a charade. It's just you not understanding how the cap is calculated or how any of this works or why.