Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[The Iceman]

In the late 90's theLeafs finished up a couple of seasons 30-43, 30-44.
Legit I just assumed the team did not have the horses. We were used to losing. Mike Murphy was the coach.

The team fired coach Murphy and replaed him with Quinn.
The result was 45-30 and a trip to the 3rd round. There was a completely different look and feel to that team with the coahing change.

 

[The Iceman]

Babcock is desperate. He is trying to rally the team but they've decided to double down and get him fired.

Dubas has 2 choices: trade one of our overpaid forwards or fire Babcock.

The players have made it clear they won't play for this coach.

Sparks was 100% right. He told us the truth. There is something wrong in the dressing room. No Emotion, Just show up to work because you have to.

Funny with this emotion talk. I watched our young draft pick Robinson after he was drafted give interviews. They were from the heart and refreshing. So likeable.
Fast forward to yesterday and he was interviwed between periods of the Marlies games. Didn't look at the camera or the interviwer, said obviously 20 times and just gave you nothing. Robotic.

Just for fun next time you hear a Mitch, Matthews interview gage their engagement and interest. Looking away, just spitting out words and using the word OBVIOUSLY every second sentence.
They are getting media training from the team and they are turning them into unlikeable unemotional robots. Giving nothing to the camera and making the interview a complete waste of time.

 

[Trapper]

We also said Smith was the main problem, and the PK problems still remain with Hakstol. The head coach is still here. This is Babcock.

What I think should happen:

You fire Babcock and promote Keefe to head coach.
In addition to Keefe, he brings Clune and Lily with him to the big club.
You move out Ceci and give Holl a shot with more responsibility paired with Rielly.
4.5 million to find a backup or additional help.
Lily can work in with Dermott.
Clune goes through the wall for Keefe.

Implement your system even if it takes a season. A season lost or not. If it looks like we aren't making the playoffs, Barrie gets the Shattenkirk trade treatment. Have fun, put the system in place, be ready to retool for next year.

 

[deletethis]

In the late 90's theLeafs finished up a couple of seasons 30-43, 30-44.
Legit I just assumed the team did not have the horses. We were used to losing. Mike Murphy was the coach.

The team fired coach Murphy and replaed him with Quinn.
The result was 45-30 and a trip to the 3rd round. There was a completely different look and feel to that team with the coahing change.

Murphy was a dumb dumb with connections who thought he was smart. Babcock's got a little more pedigree. Although there is this one similarity: both would deliver those fatalistic this-is-the-team-I've-got answers to questions about sorting out the lack of defensive awareness and dedication from the team.

Babcock's closer to Quinn than you'd think. Let's not forget that Quinn's team added Cujo, Kaberle, Steve Thomas, Karpovtsev, Markov and eventually Berard.

 

[JoeyBeans]

Sheldon Keefe incoming

 

[rumman]

What I think should happen:

You fire Babcock and promote Keefe to head coach.
In addition to Keefe, he brings Clune and Lily with him to the big club.
You move out Ceci and give Holl a shot with more responsibility paired with Rielly.
4.5 million to find a backup or additional help.
Lily can work in with Dermott.
Clune goes through the wall for Keefe.

Implement your system even if it takes a season. A season lost or not. If it looks like we aren't making the playoffs, Barrie gets the Shattenkirk trade treatment. Have fun, put the system in place, be ready to retool for next year.

Holl's played well, I'd like to think he can move up the line up, but that's the problem with Ceci, he's obviously playing too high in the lineup. They need to get a quality RHD man for the 1st pairing. Trading ceci and Barrie would be on my to do list that's for sure, neither are what this team needs, get some D men that can defend.

 

[Warden of the North]

Anyone listens to Dregers hit this morning on 1050?

 

[ShaneFalco]

1. I think I would shake up every line. It is head-scratching to me to just keep everything together and trust these players to work through things when they have no history of doing so. It’s a bit of a breath of fresh air to change everything up, which is something they clearly need at the moment. Put Zach Hyman back with Auston Matthews and William Nylander. Drop Andreas Johnsson to pair with John Tavares (two players that like to mix it up in battles, I think they’d do well together), and get Dmytro Timashov back in the lineup. Try to spark the group with change instead of just rolling out the same old thing and hoping for different results.
2. I think I’d do the same thing with the defense. Put Morgan Rielly and Tyson Barrie together, and place the onus on them to figure it out and get better. No excuses for those two. Move Justin Holl next to Jake Muzzin and put Cody Ceci with Travis Dermott. See how it goes.
3. Ultimately, my thought process would be, if you’re going to go down, go down swinging. Play your top players over 20 minutes each, give them extended power play looks, mix them in on the penalty kill if your depth players aren’t getting it done, and realistically, you have to ride Frederik Andersen right now. Don’t ride this on getting the fourth line ice time or get bogged down about roles. Put it on the shoulders of the stars.

Toronto Maple Leafs Notebook: On a 0-4-1 stretch & Mike Babcock's job security

 

[SprDaVE]

Anyone listens to Dregers hit this morning on 1050?

What was Paul saying this morning?

 

[The Iceman]

What is getting worse...7-1???

 

[stickty111]

Isn't that bit of a contradiction statement? He says the change won't happen anytime soon, and then says it could happen at the end of the trip.

 

[SprDaVE]

Isn't that bit of a contradiction statement? He says the change won't happen anytime soon, and then says it could happen at the end of the trip.

From what I gather, it won't happen before the end of the road trip, which lasts until November 30th. Leafs play a back to back Nov 29 and 30th when they finally get back home.

So there's a 12 day period here where Babcock can save his job. If they are win-less or still completely awful, it's likely his job will be on the hot seat after November 30th, which means this is not any time soon.

 

[SprDaVE]

Sounds to me like the next few games are going to make or break this coaching staff. I could also see a trade or two happening to shake things up.

 

[Cor]

I DESPISE this mentality.

“hey, we’ve been dog shit and poorly coached for the past year now, but if the next 3 games go well... we’re good!”

 

[Mess]

You can't win in a Salary Cap World with multiple double digit AAV players as you have spent yourself out of Cup competitiveness and your supporting cast is simply not good enough.

Just ask the Chicago Blackhawks and LA Kings .. Both teams won multiple Stanley Cups on the backs of their current stars Toews, Kane, Kopitar and Drew Doughty with some even winning the Conn Smythe.

The catch is this was BEFORE they signed their double digit AAV contracts rewarding player performance and now can't make the playoffs with the same star players that took them to ultimate success.

Now where are their Cup winning coaches Joel Q and Darryl Sutter?

Not only do the Leafs have 2 X top AAV players they have 3 of the top 7 highest AAV in the league.

The coach always pay the ultimate price at the expense of Cap management and Babcock was set up to fail before the season even began and will this trend.

Its not going to matter who the Leafs replace Babcock with regardless if its Sheldon Keefe or Scotty Bowman the end result will be the same. IMO

All bets are off as to what happens next after your replace the coach and the outcome doesn't change?

PS. Much like Joel Quenneville now having the Florida Panthers in 8th overall a perennial non playoff team while the Hawks continue to struggle in the bottom 10, I expect Babcock to land on his feet in short order and take his next team to the playoffs like he does with regularity.

 

[SprDaVE]

I DESPISE this mentality.

“hey, we’ve been dog **** and poorly coached for the past year now, but if the next 3 games go well... we’re good!”

I hate this mentality just because it's been crap since last January for the most part. The one constant in all of this has been Babcock.

Looking at everything from the play on the ice to underlying numbers to the players tells me that Babcock will not be able to correct the issue.

We've all seen these "vote of confidence" to coaches clinging on by a thread never working out. It literally never works out. I can't think of a single moment of a coach struggling so bad but then all of a sudden, they are dominating like the should.

The only worst thing the Leafs could do is let go Babcock and then hire Hasktol as an interim. Good god I'm scared of this.

 

[stickty111]

I DESPISE this mentality.

“hey, we’ve been dog **** and poorly coached for the past year now, but if the next 3 games go well... we’re good!”

Pretty much.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Giving him too much rope here.

As a side point, I like @SAMCRO44's idea to just put Rielly and Barrie together and let them go nuts. Put Muzzin and Holl together and see what they can do.

If we're anyway giving Babcock a while longer, he needs to shake things up. Actually experiment to see if he can find something to spark the team. It's just so hard to see that happen given how inflexible he's been so far.

 

[Stand Witness]

To me this reads as the following...

To Babcock: This is us giving you a more than fair shot when everyone thinks you should be gone. Prove that you are who we think you can be. Do your players respect you?

To the players: Do you respect the coach or are you going to mail it in so he gets fired? Who mails it in and shows their character and gets moved?

This is going to be one hell of a road trip and evaluation process.

 

[MyBudJT]

Giving him too much rope here.

As a side point, I like @SAMCRO44's idea to just put Rielly and Barrie together and let them go nuts. Put Muzzin and Holl together and see what they can do.

If we're anyway giving Babcock a while longer, he needs to shake things up. Actually experiment to see if he can find something to spark the team. It's just so hard to see that happen given how inflexible he's been so far.

I fail to see how it makes sense to put our worst defensman with Rielly... but thats getting off-topic with this thread...

 

[MyBudJT]

To me this reads as the following...

To Babcock: This is us giving you a more than fair shot when everyone thinks you should be gone. Prove that you are who we think you can be. Do your players respect you?

To the players: Do you respect the coach or are you going to mail it in so he gets fired? Who mails it in and shows their character and gets moved?

This is going to be one hell of a road trip and evaluation process.

I don't know... I don't think Dubas is going to make a decision based on three games. Thats against everything he's always preached.... Remember this whole "recency bias" thing that was a hot-topic around here a few years ago??


I do more-or-less agree with the rest of your thoughts. On one hand, its not really the coach's systems that are the issue, its that our players who aren't really playing hard. That IS a fault of a coach, but it it also the fault of his players.

On the other hand, the players have a job to do, and they're not doing it. Its clear that our players aren't very strong defensively, and until some roster turnover happens, I really don't think it matters who coaches this roster...

 

[A1LeafNation]

Barrie is not being deployed as he should be.

Babcock gets confused anytime talent enter the organization.

I thought Babcock was suppose to be changed after last year's playoffs. [MOD]

 

[ToneDog]

Giving him too much rope here.

As a side point, I like @SAMCRO44's idea to just put Rielly and Barrie together and let them go nuts. Put Muzzin and Holl together and see what they can do.

If we're anyway giving Babcock a while longer, he needs to shake things up. Actually experiment to see if he can find something to spark the team. It's just so hard to see that happen given how inflexible he's been so far.

I'll assume u mean go nuts on O cause it won't be pretty on D.

 

[stickty111]

I hate this mentality just because it's been crap since last January for the most part. The one constant in all of this has been Babcock.

Looking at everything from the play on the ice to underlying numbers to the players tells me that Babcock will not be able to correct the issue.

We've all seen these "vote of confidence" to coaches clinging on by a thread never working out. It literally never works out. I can't think of a single moment of a coach struggling so bad but then all of a sudden, they are dominating like the should.

The only worst thing the Leafs could do is let go Babcock and then hire Hasktol as an interim. Good god I'm scared of this.

I'm confident it won't be Hakstol, but I have had a bad feeling it might be him.
I'm pretty sure it will be Keefe. He seems like the proper and logical choice. Familiarity with a few players, players seem to like him, and a Dubas guy.
I want Hakstol fired too though, but not sure how likely that is.

 

[rumman]

Sounds to me like the next few games are going to make or break this coaching staff. I could also see a trade or two happening to shake things up.

wonder what the players response will be in the next 3 games, this ought to be telling if the fix truly is in.

Et tu Brute...............